Too Sad News

[SouthKona]

Posted on: Saturday, August 19, 2006 11:31 PM
http://starbulletin.com/breaking/breaking.php?id=4817

"Road is site of second fatal crash in 18 hours -
A group mourning the vicims of the first crash are hit by a car, an initial report says.

Police were investigating another fatal crash tonight in the same area of Kamehameha Highway where two teenagers died and three others were injured in a one-car wreck in Hauula early this morning.
The initial report at about 11 p.m. was that a car ran into a group of people paying their respects to the victims of the first early morning crash.
One person was reported dead at the scene and three other people were injured, some critically."

[SouthKona]

Re: Too Sad News

Posted at 8:56 a.m., Sunday, August 20, 2006
http://the.honoluluadvertiser.com/ar.../br/br10p.html

"Four young people killed in deadly day at Hau'ula"
"Two young people killed last night in Hau'ula — apparently as they were paying their respects at a roadside memorial to two other crash victims killed at the same spot early that morning — have been identified."

[pzarquon]

Re: Too Sad News

Just awful. Watching the families, the mothers, try to hold it together in front of the news cameras... ugh. A tragedy squared.

There were lots of questions yet to be answered about the initial crash, and now a "roadside memorial" brings another two deaths. The first, five teens speeding through Hau`ula at 4 a.m. in a stolen car. The second, a crowd gathered on the side of the road at 11 p.m. wiped out by another speeding driver.

Kudos to KHON to delicately addressing some of the issues this pair of tragedies raise. Such as, one, new drivers' license laws that specifically state that minors can't be driving late at night, and that only one minor should be in the car, anyway. You're never too old to make questionable decisions, and the law can only go so far. Parents need to enforce the capital "L" laws that the state cannot.

And, two, the issue of roadside memorials. They're common across the country, and the same things are debated everywhere, insofar as their potentially being a traffic hazard themselves. The state's management of them (takedown after 30 days, or immediately if they do pose a hazard) sounds reasonable. We had a gigantic one in Mililani for a couple of weeks, but it was allowed to stand (apart from removing a bunch of balloons) and promptly cleaned up.

Personally, I don't think a collection of flowers and other items left at an accident scene are so much the issue here as is the additional local practice of basically holding a perpetual social gathering there. Some even setting up with chairs and beer -- the latter item especially ironic when alcohol was a factor in the crash. (Not that this was the case in this latest crash.) The driver in the crash is, to be sure, wholly at fault. But 11 p.m. along Kamehameha Highway in Hau`ula would not be my first venue of choice if I wanted to have a quiet conversation with 14 of my friends about a loved one we've just lost.

[tutusue]

Re: Too Sad News

Not that this idea would help the drinking and driving situation but I've felt for decades that drivers licenses should only be issued to teens with a high school diploma...anytime after graduation night. No graduate...no drive.

Fire away...my asbestos jammies are donned!

[damontucker]

Re: Too Sad News

In a sense... I'm going to wander a bit here...bare with me...

I truly feel for the kids that lost their lives... as well as the family and friends of the victims...

However, if the Drinking age is 21...then the driving age should be 21.
They set the drinking age at the age level because of responsibility.

However, if they are going to send people off to fight for our country at age 18...then I think they should drop the drinking age to 18.

Maybe 18 should be a good point for everything? I dunno?

I'm tired of seeing people losing their lives at young ages.

Nuff said.

[SouthKona]

Re: Too Sad News

However, if they are going to send people off to fight for our country at age 18...then I think they should drop the drinking age to 18.

Maybe 18 should be a good point for everything? I dunno?

That makes me wonder, too. If you are old enough to be trusted with a loaded weapon, it seems like you are old enough to drink a beer. Conversely, if you are not old enough at 18 to drink, then are you old enough to be sent to war at 18?

[timkona]

Re: Too Sad News

Roadside memorials are morbid as hell, distracting to drivers passing by, and a violation of property rights in many cases. It has always been the case in Hawaii to either bury, or honor a loved one using somebody else's land, because Hawaii was a monarchy, meaning that nobody but the King owned any land.

I can't wait for the first private property owner to try to do something on his land and the activist mentality of Hawaii tries to stop him using a roadside memorial as the sticking point. "Gravesites" have stopped lots of projects before.

I don't think I would allow a roadside memorial on my land.

If you buried your (son, grandma, dog) in the yard, and then you move, you give up the right to claim ownership of the gravesite. If the dead are so important, take them with you when you leave. After all, you took your pots & pans, your couch, and your toothbrush. Are those things more important than Grandma??

[pzarquon]

Re: Too Sad News

A relative of mine who lives along Kalanianaole Hwy. had a small memorial accumulate on his wall. Maybe he'd have felt differently if the memorial grew to the size of some of the others I've seen, but he was compassionate and was also impressed to find that someone did come by often to "maintain" it (taking home some of the mementos left on the sidewalk), and even take down what was left a few weeks later.

They're morbid, a distraction, occasionally a hazard or devolve into a pile of litter... but I think the DOT is right to afford some leeway for a not unexpected (if somewhat unusual) human expression of grief.

Flowers and pictures don't concern me. It's that two dozen people (and the cars they came in) can sometimes congregate there, making a much larger and much more vulnerable 'target' than a wooden cross and some roses might be.

[poinographer]

Re: Too Sad News

I'm somewhat surprised the Outdoor Circle hasn't gone on the offensive against these memorials...

[1stwahine]

Re: Too Sad News

I've never had a loved one die in a traffic accident. I don't know the pain nor can imagine what is felt by those who have loss their loved ones. I have seen memorials as you have and also witness people who gather at such sites. It is a hazard.

However, my compassion overlooks the safety and I know it is wrong. But how can one be unkind when others are mourning their loss of someone they loved and cherish?

Yes, something must be done to regulate and put into place to protect those who are left behind in order that they will not be taken as the one(s) they have come to pay their respect too...as was in the recent case.

Auntie Lynn

[Composite 2992]

Re: Too Sad News

That makes me wonder, too. If you are old enough to be trusted with a loaded weapon, it seems like you are old enough to drink a beer. Conversely, if you are not old enough at 18 to drink, then are you old enough to be sent to war at 18?

The answer:

They're not allowed to drink at age 18 because they don't know any better.

They're sent off to war at age 18 because they don't know any better.

[Hellbent]

Re: Too Sad News

In a sense... I'm going to wander a bit here...bare with me...

I truly feel for the kids that lost their lives... as well as the family and friends of the victims...

However, if the Drinking age is 21...then the driving age should be 21.
They set the drinking age at the age level because of responsibility.

However, if they are going to send people off to fight for our country at age 18...then I think they should drop the drinking age to 18.

Maybe 18 should be a good point for everything? I dunno?

I'm tired of seeing people losing their lives at young ages.

Nuff said.

i was kinda thinking something similar too. i wondered out loud to my wife at age do you actually start acting intelligently? i figured around 25 is when I stopped doing stupid stuff. but then again when im 45 i might look back and think 'what was i thinking' and so on. why not drop the legal drinking age to 18 and raise driving to 25, or something like that? it would push the public transportation and decrease pollution. too bad it would never happen.

[craigwatanabe]

Re: Too Sad News

Here on the Big Island you'll find a lot of perpetual roadside memorials. These things have been up for years and maintained as well. One actually had a finished koa plaque with the name of the deceased engraved onto it illuminated at night with a solar flood light.

[tutusue]

Re: Too Sad News

Here on the Big Island you'll find a lot of perpetual roadside memorials. These things have been up for years and maintained as well. One actually had a finished koa plaque with the name of the deceased engraved onto it illuminated at night with a solar flood light.

There are still several roadside memorials along the Waianae Coast that have been there since before or within one year after the 14 years I've lived in Makaha. While they aren't maintained on a regular basis or even maintained well, most are for children as evidenced by the number of stuffed animals.

I know these types of memorials are prevalent on the mainland but I don't remember ever seeing any in Calif. prior to moving to Hawaii almost 30 years ago. Did Hawaii start this trend?

[Miulang]

Re: Too Sad News

There are still several roadside memorials along the Waianae Coast that have been there since before or within one year after the 14 years I've lived in Makaha. While they aren't maintained on a regular basis or even maintained well, most are for children as evidenced by the number of stuffed animals.

I know these types of memorials are prevalent on the mainland but I don't remember ever seeing any in Calif. prior to moving to Hawaii almost 30 years ago. Did Hawaii start this trend?

We've had them up here for years. They're usually not as large as the ones in Hawai'i, though (because in Hawai'i, you have flowers from your own yard year round, up here you'd probably have to buy them). Usually it's just a cross, a sign and a few bouquets of flowers. I think the City has ordinances against making these permanent, though.

Miulang