Hawai'i's Water Supply

[DKP]

http://www.uswaternews.com/archives/...y/2inlus5.html
(old news, yes, but still relevant)

I'm just curious to see how everyone feels about our downplayed water situation. This isn't for a class or any type of poll.

How does everyone feel about permit approval for large subdivisions/ag. lands, in light of the fact that we are constantly being told by the Board of Water Supply to conserve?

How do you feel about indigenous water rights? For example, it is illegal for anyone to go down to any public stream and plant kalo wai along it's banks for personal use w/out permission. What if a family living nearby on kuleana land has been doing this for centuries in that same stream, w/out diverting any of the stream water, but has been ordered to cease and decist because the land is not owned by them? Which side would you support; our legislation, and prosecute all who violate on a consistent basis...or the family, who're just trying to practice an aspect of Hawaiian culture (just to add...it's not exactly cheap to go out and purchase a kalo wai-friendly plot, and poi/hard kalo is priced at a premium, at least here on O'ahu.) As more and more small pacific island groups/nations (both in the physical-geography and politically connected sense) adopt modern business practices, build infrastructure, and experience exponential increases in population (not to mention, a radical change in their current social dynamic), this will become a culture clash issue.

How do you all feel about consuming desalinated water as opposed to that which comes from the lens? Would you support higher fees for this technology to be implemented, and allowing large-scale development to continue w/only the restrictions and guidelines currently in place...or would you rather consume water from current sources, and support stricter guidelines for development, thus allowing for a wider range of use of water for those who are already residents?

Or would you support a medium?

Don't get me wrong...this isn't a 'sky is falling' message. I know our current levels can support our current population, however, it is just a matter of time before it can't. I just want to see how you guys feel about possible future scenarios.

I'd like to know of any other water issues you folks are aware of (for some odd reason I'm interested in this, and would love to hear what a hydrologist thinks.)

[Glen Miyashiro]

Re: Hawai'i's Water Supply

We have too many people on Oʻahu to do things the old way. Is that a good thing, or a bad thing? It depends on whether you think people shouldn't have babies.

Kooky water use priorities? They're there because of politics, and because we don't put a high enough price on the true cost of water use. A thousand gallons for just a dollar, and you wonder why people don't conserve? We should be paying ten times as much.

Loʻi kalo in the city? That would be nice, but don't expect to make money at it. In fact, you'll be at the Council with your hand out asking for special grants and tax breaks because kalo isn't the staple food it was 200 years ago. The people have changed, the technology has changed, the times have changed.

Desal plants for the Board of Water Supply? Probably one of these days, yeah. Once we get the geothermal cable from the Big Island built so there's enough power to run the things.

[GeckoGeek]

Re: Hawai'i's Water Supply

How does everyone feel about permit approval for large subdivisions/ag. lands, in light of the fact that we are constantly being told by the Board of Water Supply to conserve?

What's the alternative? You don't build more houses, and the cost of housing will go even higher.

If we have to go desal, that's what we gotta do.

[Pua'i Mana'o]

Re: Hawai'i's Water Supply

I really like the idea of desalinization plants that suck water from way off shore and pipe it in. I'd be happy if we leave our natural water tables alone.

Home water catchment systems throughout the isles (not just the Big Isle) is smart, too.

[joshuatree]

Re: Hawai'i's Water Supply

There are so many things that can be done before we reach desal. It's a matter of will power. We can pass new rules that require two flush toilets, #1 gets a lighter flush, #2 gets a heavier flush. We can require the installation of rainwater tanks for garden use. I believe the Australians do this so no tapwater is used for gardening and lawn purposes. And we get adequate rainfall to fill up the tanks. Or we can recycle used water for lawn, garden, toilet use though this will take time and effort to essentially build a secondary plumbing system for the island. We can require car wash businesses to recycle the water and ban/limit home car washes.

[Hellbent]

Re: Hawai'i's Water Supply

wow thats funny, i made a rainwater tank a several years ago, i thought i was making something new =P
that 2 flush toilet sounds interesting, is there a kit to convert?

[joshuatree]

Re: Hawai'i's Water Supply

wow thats funny, i made a rainwater tank a several years ago, i thought i was making something new =P
that 2 flush toilet sounds interesting, is there a kit to convert?

More power to you. How did the tank turn out? Relatively easy project?

As for dual flush toilets, I would assume one would just need a new set of switches and plumbing inside the tank to accomplish this but I am not sure. Here is a short research paper. It appears in single family use, the dual flush can reduce flush volumes by 68%. That's a significant amount of water savings.

http://www.cmhc-schl.gc.ca/publicati.../02-124-e.html

[DKP]

Re: Hawai'i's Water Supply

Wow, good ideas everyone.

A neighbor of mine has the two flush thing. He told me the males never use the mild setting, stating 'I'd rather use the wild than the mild' (they live on a mountainside.) Still a damn good invention that I may upgrade to if I get a better toilet.

I'm in the process of modifying the design of a normal catchment system to one that can be used off the balcony of my apt. Luckily I live on the top floor. The hard part is trying to make it 'aesthetically acceptable' to satisfy the owners' association (of which I am one...but, I could personally care less how my studio looks from the outside, but that's just me.)

On a side note, I also want to be able to do some water gardening with a custom soil/hydroponics system. It would be done in an old tub on my balcony. The system would have to recycle and filter the water, without the soil clogging it. The idea is to create an artificial marsh-like environment. If anyone has ever done or seen anything like this, please let me know. I've seen the systems for yards and such (pond/waterfall systems)...but way too expensive, so I must go custom.

Anyway,

I was expecting the opposite reaction from everyone. When I posed the questions to classmates/friends @ U.H., the majority responded along the lines of 'I'd die before I drink seawater', or 'Why should we have to drink that and pay to desalinate? If Hawai'i has reached it's occupancy, why should we all have to suffer w/higher fees and restrictions because of the population increase. It was we who have been paying for the infrastructure all this time. If there were population controls here, our normal water/sewer fees wouldn't have to go up as much.'

Personally, I wouldn't mind desal for drinking or anything, as long as everyone (malahini included), get the same from the tap. I don't beleive in private ownership of well water (if this weren't an island, I might feel differently), and wouldn't support this natural resource going to the highest bidder.

[timkona]

Re: Hawai'i's Water Supply

Population Controls - wow, now there's a concept.

No Babies allowed. Reminds me of Chitty Chitty Bang Bang. Sex requires a permit. Reproduction needs a full blown license, regulated by the DCCA to make sure you are a sound parent. LOL. ZPG folks love the idea.

China does it. How's that workin out?

To find out why Hawaii is growing, bolt a mirror to the ceiling in your bedroom.

Damn, I'm thirsty. Think I'll get a beer.

[GeckoGeek]

Re: Hawai'i's Water Supply

If Hawai'i has reached it's occupancy, why should we all have to suffer w/higher fees and restrictions because of the population increase. It was we who have been paying for the infrastructure all this time. If there were population controls here, our normal water/sewer fees wouldn't have to go up as much.'

Wow. That's some ignorant statements there. Sad commentary on a UH education.

Part of belonging the U.S. is accepting that we can't put up barriers to people wanting to move from another state to here. It's been tried, and shot down in court. Maybe if we quit promoting ourselves as a tourist destination it would be easier to control. But then what would Hawaii do as a state to be able to pay for all the stuff we have to import?

Controlling the birth rate? Good luck. I don't even want to think about what that attempt would look like.

[808shooter]

Re: Hawai'i's Water Supply

Wow. That's some ignorant statements there. Sad commentary on a UH education.

Part of belonging the U.S. is accepting that we can't put up barriers to people wanting to move from another state to here. It's been tried, and shot down in court. Maybe if we quit promoting ourselves as a tourist destination it would be easier to control. But then what would Hawaii do as a state to be able to pay for all the stuff we have to import?

Controlling the birth rate? Good luck. I don't even want to think about what that attempt would look like.

nothing against you geckogeek, but it is ironic that his ignorant statement is right in line with water use rights around the country.

hawaii is one of the few states that allow free and equal rights to water, for all comers. everywhere else it's the first come first serve rule.

not to worry though, desal plants will increase the cost of water only by 200-300%. even then, the local pols here will pass most of the burden of desal water to businesses like the golf courses and hotels that suck a lot of water up.

as to population controls - they don't have to be "birth rate controls". it would be easy to implement economic disincentives to move here. rent control and property tax controls would increase the burden of the cost of living here to new transplants.

not saying that it would be a good idea, but before you put someone else down, you could try to read their post more carefully.

and by the way, uh education is just fine.

[GeckoGeek]

Re: Hawai'i's Water Supply

hawaii is one of the few states that allow free and equal rights to water, for all comers. everywhere else it's the first come first serve rule.

Sorry, I don't see the connection. Increasing the costs for "new comers of water" would raise the cost of new developments. Who moves into the new developments? Just mainlanders? I don't think so.

as to population controls - they don't have to be "birth rate controls". it would be easy to implement economic disincentives to move here. rent control and property tax controls would increase the burden of the cost of living here to new transplants.

Aside from making it generally miserable to live here, just how would this affect just new transplants instead of the whole population? If it treated new transplants separately, I think it would get challenged and defeated in Federal court. As I said, there have been attempts to discourage people from moving here. The most recent is the city's preference for hiring local residents over non-residents has been struck down.

Frankly the cure sounds worse then the disease.

and by the way, uh education is just fine.

I are a UH grad. But if I understood the 3rd hand report correctly I still think their comments weren't completely thought through. If they got what they were asking for, they'd be paying much more and probably complaining about it.

[DKP]

Re: Hawai'i's Water Supply

Population Controls - wow, now there's a concept.

No Babies allowed. Reminds me of Chitty Chitty Bang Bang. Sex requires a permit. Reproduction needs a full blown license, regulated by the DCCA to make sure you are a sound parent. LOL. ZPG folks love the idea.

China does it. How's that workin out?

To find out why Hawaii is growing, bolt a mirror to the ceiling in your bedroom.

Damn, I'm thirsty. Think I'll get a beer.

I think the person was referring to migratory controls (don't know if that would be the correct phrase...should of typed it anyway as it's probably more descriptive).

Damn, I'm thirsty. Think I'll get a beer.

Now that was well phrased. I shall do the same.



As for the comments, 6 of the people were freshmen, the other was a sophomore.

@ least U.H. isn't H.P.U. (kidding...they're overpriced but not that bad, except for the P.U. 'campus' in town.) H.P.U. definately has a more diverse female body, though...I mean...student body.

Ah, screw it...I meant 'female booty' :P

[GeckoGeek]

Re: Hawai'i's Water Supply

As for the comments, 6 of the people were freshmen, the other was a sophomore.

Ah,that explains it. They were still getting ed-u-matacted.

Although I'm not sure how they'll learn the real issue: "Population control" sounds so simple. Yeah, I agree. If there was ways of limiting or even reducing the population then this wouldn't be a problem. Seems obvious, right? I guess it comes with age that you learn what does and doesn't work.

[Hellbent]

Re: Hawai'i's Water Supply

More power to you. How did the tank turn out? Relatively easy project?

pretty easy for an ugly one.
1 plastic trash can
1 old window screen
1 water faucet
silicon

cut hole in lid (for gutter drain), cut hole near bottom and attach faucet, sealing with silicon, let cure and attach hose. i was thinking of using some window screen to filter out junk and maybe put in some junk fish to eat any mosquito larvae (screening off the faucet hose too), but couldnt figure out if theyd live off of moss or not.

the link you had used a nice paintable food grade barrel and cost $150.