The "Real" Middle Eastern War

[glossyp]

Re: Lebanon vs. Israel

What are everyone's feelings considering the growing conflict between the two countries of Israel and Lebanon, especially considering that Israel has stepped it up with an imminent ground force invasion? Do you think the capturing of two Iraelis justifies there salvo? Do you believe that Lebanon asked for it when the targeted Israeli cities with missiles? Just curious to hear some opinions.

It's easy to know which side the two most prolific posters in this thread, Miulang and Waioli Kai, are on - just read their posts.

Your statement that this is about two kidnapped soldiers fails to note the larger picture and history. Hezbollah is a terrorist organization with the stated goal of elminating Israel and their principal sponsors are Iran and Syria. Israel was looking for the opportunity, or excuse if you will, to take Hezbollah out or at least push it back from the borders. Overreaction to a kidnapping, yes, but in terms of larger long-term Israeli goals perhaps not.

[Miulang]

Re: Lebanon vs. Israel

It's easy to know which side the two most prolific posters in this thread, Miulang and Waioli Kai, are on - just read their posts.

Your statement that this is about two kidnapped soldiers fails to note the larger picture and history. Hezbollah is a terrorist organization with the stated goal of elminating Israel and their principal sponsors are Iran and Syria. Israel was looking for the opportunity, or excuse if you will, to take Hezbollah out or at least push it back from the borders. Overreaction to a kidnapping, yes, but in terms of larger long-term Israeli goals perhaps not.

It's NOT about 2 kidnapped soldiers. The whole thing started with Israel kidnapping 2 Palestinian men on June 24. Corporal Shalit was kidnapped by Hamas on June 25 in retribution for the kidnapping of the 2 civilians. Israel has been sniping at Palestine for the last 6 years, but we never hear about it because the American media hasn't been covering it.

I didn't say Hezbollah was right; only that BOTH Israel and Hezbollah are WRONG. The people who are living in South Lebanon (where Hezbollah operates) think they are heroes. So are those innocent civilians to be classified as terrorists too, just because they are grateful for the help they have received from Hezbollah? Do they deserve to be chased out of their homeland?

Miulang

[Miulang]

Faces of the "new" Lebanon

Here are stories about some of the young Lebanese adults who will face the horrendous task of trying to rebuild their country once things settle down again.

Don't feel sorry for them, only be in awe that they actually want to go back and try to rebuild their country.

Miulang

[Miulang]

All terrorists are not alike

Fascinating story in the New York Times about the schism between the Sunnis and the Shia leaders and why al Qaeda at this point has not joined forces with Hezbollah.

Miulang

[waioli kai]

90% pressure for cease-fire

'

Israel may win the war, but lose the battle

Actions could possibly help Hezbollah, Iran, hurt Lebanese government
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/13988687/

Israel may appear to be solidly in the driver's seat in its fight with Hezbollah — pushing relentlessly to weaken the Islamic guerrilla group as much as it can while there is little international pressure for a quick cease-fire. ... ... '

? ".... while there is little international pressure for a quick cease-fire." ?

Instead of US news media repeating such falsehoods about there being little international pressure for a cease fire, they should report which U.N. Ambassadors stated they are not for an immediate cease fire = who are Zionazi, USraeli terrorUSt$' "coalition of the willing"/that is, willing leaders (regardless their nation's citizens' wishes) = who are most all present right-wing, conservative led mirror-image governments of CheneyBush's US = pro-zionUSt governments whose combined citizenship is less than 10% of the international community.

Zionazi USrael has a war plan and the world is its victim. Their war plan is to destroy all who defy them, to spoil all that which they cannot possess or control, to set others back generations so they can live their delUSion$ without challenge, sheltered from truth, accountability, justice....for just a while longer.

[Miulang]

We now stand alone with Israel...

As Israel and Hezbollah continue to lob missiles at each other producing collateral damage to innocent civilians on both sides, Israel is now saying the US has given them permission to continue their assault on Lebanon for another week, per the "plans" that Israel had drawn up and discussed with the US a year ago.

The Foreign Minister of Great Britain, in the meantime, declared yesterday that the damage to civilians in Lebanon was uncalled for and urged our government to consider the deaths of hundreds of innocent Lebanese and the destruction of critical infrastructure.

"...The remarks, made in Beirut by the Foreign Office minister, Kim Howells, were the first public criticism by this country of Israel's military campaign, and placed it at odds with Washington's strong support. The Observer can also reveal that Tony Blair voiced deep concern about the escalating violence during a private telephone conversation with the Israeli Prime Minister, Ehud Olmert, last week. But sources close to Blair said Olmert had replied that Israel faced a dire security threat from the Hizbollah militia and was determined to do everything necessary to defeat it.

Britain's shift came as Israeli tanks and warplanes pounded targets across the border in southern Lebanon yesterday ahead of an imminently expected ground offensive to clear out nearby Hizbollah positions, which have been firing dozens of rockets onto towns and cities inside Israel..."

Miulang

P.S. More on that "preplanned" war on Lebanon.

[Miulang]

Dem terrorists is tougher than we thought!

Even the vaunted Lt. Gen. Dan Halutz has to admit that Hezbollah is more tenacious than he and his advisers had planned. I wonder if he got the same advice about ridding Lebanon of Hezbollah as our President got when he was told our invasion of Iraq would be a "slam dunk"?

If this conflict devolves into mano a mano fighting, guess who would win (hint: the defenders always have an advantage over the intruders)? What is left for Israel? Drop a "teensy" nuclear warhead to put the Lebanese state out of its misery so it can be rebuilt from the ground up? Some countries will never learn that military force will never ensure a lasting peace.

Miulang

[Miulang]

The religious landscape of Lebanon

Some fascinating information about the religious diversity that exists in Lebanon. The attacks on Lebanon are not only endangering Shia in South Lebanon, but Maronites, Druze, Sunnis, Greek Orthodox adherents as well. There are 18 officially recognized by the government religions in Lebanon.

Miulang

[Miulang]

Re: The "Real" Middle Eastern War

Thank you, President Bush, for going once again against world opinion by steadfastly refusing to get Israel to stop killing innocent Lebanese and Palestinian citizens.

How ironic that Condoleeeeeeezza has now ridden into Beirut on her white horse and declared that the US will give Lebanon $30 million in emergency funding for humanitarian relief (probably the total will go much higher when all is said and done), particularly since our tax dollars had already gone to helping to rebuild that last incarnation of Beirut. So we give Israel military assistance so they can tear down in Lebanon what we already helped pay for. I guess that's one way to not play favorites.

Miulang

[waioli kai]

Birth pangs of Zionaziism , Re: The "Real" Middle Eastern War

Miulang= -- Thank you, President Bush, for going once again against world opinion by steadfastly refusing to get Israel to stop killing innocent Lebanese and Palestinian citizens. --

'American officials are very good at vernacular descriptions, but lousy at history and political reality in the Middle East. As U.S. Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice sets off Sunday on her short trip to a Middle East that is increasingly engulfed in violent confrontations and political turmoil, she has described the massive destruction, dislocation and human suffering in Lebanon as an inevitable part of the "birth pangs of a new Middle East". ' www.truthout.org/docs_2006/072406F.shtml By Rami Khouri , AlterNet

Birth pangs? What is being born? New Arab, Persian and Islamic hate for Zionazirael? More Islamic radicalism to counter the insatiable appetite of the monster which is radical Zionizm, which more than six decades after being artificially inseminated by Zionizt militarism in the womb of the Middle East, the monster is futilely blasting, murdering, kidnapping, hijacking, imprisoning, assassinating its way out of the womb toward Zion, where, when all is done, buried, incinerated or otherwise forgotten, everyone will be welcome ?

'From my perspective here in Beirut, watching American-supplied Israeli jets smash this country to smithereens, what she describes as "birth pangs" look much more like a wicked hangover from a decades-old American orgy of diplomatic intoxication with the enticements of pro-Israeli politics.

'We shall find out in the coming years if indeed a new Middle East is being born, or - as I suspect - we are witnessing the initial dying gasps of the Western-made political order that has defined this region and focused primarily on Israeli national dictates for most of the past half a century. The way to a truly new and stable Middle East is to apply policies that deliver equal rights to all concerned, not to favor Israel as having greater rights than Arabs. '

Good thought, but SS Rice has a different take on it:

'Rice declared that Israel should ignore calls for a ceasefire, saying: "This is a different Middle East. It's a new Middle East. It's hard. We're going through a very violent time." '

There it is! SS Rice makes USraeli war crimes more easy to swallow: It's just that "We're going through a very violent time", and some of us had /have the nerve to expect that Humanity should be reaping the prosperity and joys of a peace dividend following the so-called end of a superpower cold-war in the last decade of the recently expired Christian Era century. What in Reagan's name were we thinking?

[Miulang]

Re: The "Real" Middle Eastern War

I really, truly hope I'm wrong, but unless there is a rapid de-escalation of force by Israel and Hezbollah, the next thing to happen could very well be a nuclear assault on Iran either by us (as "punishment" of Iran for supporting Hezbollah) or Israel, which already apparently had been granted that privilege last year (see the thread "the coming war with Iran"). This was supposed to happen on June 15 last year, but the "excuse" to let the bombing begin didn't occur until this year. Here are some things to consider if either Israel or the US drop a nuclear bomb, though:

"...In the end of course we will all lose. Because the nuclear genie, unleashed from its bottle in the war against Iran, will never retreat. And just like the US could develop nuclear weapons in only 4 years with completely new technology 60 years ago, many more countries and groups will be highly motivated to do it in the coming years.

Think about the current disproportionate response of Israel, applied in a conflict where the contenders have nuclear weapons. 10 to 1 retaliation, starting with a mere 600 casualties, wipes out the entire Earth's population in eight easy steps. Who will be willing to stop the escalation? The country that lost 60,000 citizens in the last hit? The one that lost 600,000? 6 million?

As the nuclear holocaust unfolds, some will remember the Lebanon conflict and subsequent Iran war and blame it all on the Jews. Others will properly blame Americans, for having allowed their Executive to erase the 60-year old taboo against the use of nuclear weapons, first in doctrine and then in practice, despite having the most powerful conventional military force in the world. Others of course will blame "Muslim extremism".

And then the blaming will wither away as a three-billion-year old experiment, life on planet Earth, comes to an end. "

Miulang

P.S. The Bulletin of the Atomic Scientists has a "Doomsday Clock" which is supposed to show how close the world is to being blown up. It was last changed on Feb. 27, 2002. The "time" on that clock on that day was 7 minutes to Doomsday (moved up from 9 minutes to midnight). It's going to be interesting to see if that minute hand on the Doomsday clock moves, given the events of the last 2 weeks.

[Miulang]

Condi's impasse in Lebanon

Apparently the Lebanese government is not pleased with Condi's offer of humanitarian aid to that stricken country because she, like the President, refuses to agree to try to get Israel to stop the bombing of Beirut. What did Condi think? That giving the Lebanese money was going to shut them up?

"...In a meeting that appeared tense, Saniora told the U.S. diplomat that Israel's bombardment had taken his country ''backwards 50 years,'' the prime minister's office said. And Nabih Berri, a veteran Lebanese politician who is Lebanon's parliament speaker and Hezbollah's de facto negotiator, rejected proposals brought by Rice almost as soon as she left.

Berri told Rice that a cease-fire must precede any talks about resolving Hezbollah's presence in Lebanon, an official close to the speaker said. Rice, reflecting the U.S. view that a quick cease-fire would not be sustainable, had proposed that the fighting stop at the same time that an international force deployed in southern Lebanon, the official said. Rice also proposed that Hezbollah weapons be removed from a buffer zone extending about 18 miles from the Israeli border, said the official. He spoke on condition of anonymity because the talks were private..."


Miulang

[Miulang]

Hezbollah doesn't have to win the battle...

it just has to stand up to and endure Israeli forces to be considered "winners" in the eyes of the Arabs in Southern Lebanon and other parts of the Arab world.

Miulang

[Miulang]

Are we to blame?

"...It is ignorant and immoral to blame the conflict on Hamas and Hezbollah. These organizations were created by Israeli aggression. Lacking American jet fighters, tanks, ordinance, and resupply, these organizations resort to terror, which is the only weapon that they have. Otherwise, the world would pay no attention as Arabs are ground under by Israeli expansion.

The fault is America’s more than Israel’s. The American government and the brainwashed American public are the source of the conflict. If America did not enable Israeli aggression, Israel would have to behave responsibly and endeavor to co-exist with its neighbors.

Israel is an artificial state created in Arab lands by European colonial powers after World War II. Instead of working to win acceptance and overcoming Arab hostility to Europe shipping off “the Jewish problem” to the Middle East, Israel has antagonized its Middle East neighbors. Israel can play the bully-boy role, because the US acts as Israel’s big brother. With its policy of fang and claw, Israel endangers its own right to exist.

Many distinguished Israelis came to this conclusion long before I did. I am only repeating what can be read in more eloquent writings of distinguished Israelis.

Israel’s greatest friends are its own peace movement and those few in America who dare to criticize Israel’s self-destructive policies. It is not anti-semitic to hold Israel to the same standards as other civilized countries or to report facts instead of Israeli propaganda.

Israel’s greatest enemies are the American neoconservatives, who hold the power in the Bush Regime. What we are witnessing in the Middle East is the unfolding of the neocon plan to destroy all vestiges of Arab/Muslim independence and to remove all opposition to Israel’s agenda. Can five million Israelis, even when backed by the United States, forever suppress hundreds of millions of humiliated Muslims stewing in their humiliation?

This is a recipe for perpetual conflict and the eventual destruction of Israel."


http://www.informationclearinghouse....ticle14173.htm

Miulang

[waioli kai]

Is Nobel-laureate Peres to blame?

Water <--?--> Harari assassination

Reassessing the Hariri assassination in the light of recent events:

'The Hariri assassination, immediately blamed on Syria (with no evidence other than the lies promoted by Mehlis), led directly to Syria being forced to withdraw its troops from Lebanon. It is obvious that that step was a necessary precondition of Israeli involvement in Lebanon. http://xymphora.blogspot.com/2006/07/reassessing-hariri-assassination-in.html ...

The huge mystery of the current Israeli adventures is why Israel is sacrificing so much international goodwill in murdering innocent Lebanese civilians, when its stated goal is ‘self-defense’ against Hezbollah. ...

Israel’s actions are actually strengthening the position of Hezbollah, which isn’t so odd when you consider the fact that Israel has long helped to create its own enemies in order to have an excuse for colonialist attacks against them. ...

...such destruction is part of the Zionist Plan for the Middle East. Ideally, Lebanon will end up fractured on ethnic lines, following the Yinon plan of breaking all of Israel’s potential enemies into tiny statelets. A peaceful and tolerant and wealthy Lebanon is bad publicity for the general Zionist line that Arabs are incapable of such progress.

Hariri was one of the main architects of the reconstruction of Lebanon, and would not have stood for its re-destruction. He had a lot of powerful friends around the world, and would probably have been able to prevent the current Israeli attacks. Even if the attacks had done damage, he would have been able to lead the re-reconstruction, thwarting Israeli long-term plans. It was thus necessary to remove him as a precondition of the current Israeli attacks.

'The original Official Story of the Hariri assassination was that it was an underground explosion of a type that only the Syrian intelligence services could have handled. When it turned out that the evidence indicated a truck bomb.

Israel has a number of goals in its current attacks, the ultimate one being fooling the Americans into another war for Israel, this time against Syria. The most feasible goal, however, is water. With the connivance of the Americans, Israel is resisting calls for any kind of ceasefire or negotiated settlement, as that would prevent Israel from achieving its real goal of seizing southern Lebanon, including control over the water in the Litani river (some of which is already being stolen by the Israelis). UN peacekeepers would make such a goal impossible, and so UN involvement must be resisted. (for example? Zionazi forces not even an hour ago: Israel bomb kills 4 UN observers in Lebanon))

It is only in the light of the ongoing crimes being committed by Israel in Lebanon that we can come to a full understanding of the real reason for the assassination of Rafik Hariri. Like Hollis Mulwray in the movie Chinatown, Hariri died so that water could be stolen. '

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Saturday, June 17, 2006
Israeli spy rings in Lebanon and the Hariri assassination
^ttp://xymphora.blogspot.com/2006/06/israeli-spy-rings-in-lebanon-and.htm