The "Real" Middle Eastern War

[waioli kai]

tangible evidence at Qana and Khiyam?

Miulang= ---"It appears that the IDF cannot confirm that there were Katyusha missiles being fired from Hezbollah sites in Qana prior to the annihilation of that town; according to Ha'aretz..."---

Amidst all the destruction in Qana, there should be (if Israeli claims have any truth to them) at least some destroyed Hizbollah rocket launchers. Same goes at Khiyam for the Israeli bombings of U.N. observers' station. Although by now the Israeli Offense Forces have had time to corrupt the evidence, or lack of evidence, at Khiyam as they continue their crimes to clear/cleanse Lebanon for Israeli occupation forces.

[Miulang]

Re: tangible evidence at Qana?

Miulang= ---"It appears that the IDF cannot confirm that there were Katyusha missiles being fired from Hezbollah sites in Qana prior to the annihilation of that town; according to Ha'aretz..."---

Amidst all the destruction in Qana, there should at least be some destroyed rocket launchers. Same goes for the Israeli bombings of U.N. observers' Khiyam station. Although by now the Israeli Offense Forces have had time to corrupt the evidence (or lack of evidence) at Khiyam as they clear/cleanse Lebanon for Israeli occupation forces.

Nah, our guided missiles must've vaporized all those rocket launchers..and yet they were so precise that they only killed/suffocated those people who were hiding in the building next to the one the IAF was aiming at!

Miulang

[Miulang]

George W. v. George H.W.

Although worshipping the same religion and having the same pedigree, there apparently is a schism between what Bush Sr. and Bush Jr. believe:

"...That embrace of Israel represents a generational and philosophical divide between the Bushes, one that is exacerbating the friction that has been building between their camps of advisers and loyalists over foreign policy more generally. As the president continues to stand by Israel in its campaign against Hezbollah — even after a weekend attack that left many Lebanese civilians dead and provoked international condemnation — some advisers to the father are expressing deep unease with the Israel policies of the son.

“The current approach simply is not leading toward a solution to the crisis, or even a winding down of the crisis,” said Richard N. Haass, who advised the first President Bush on the Middle East and worked as a senior State Department official in the current president’s first term. “There are times at which a hands-off policy can be justified. It’s not obvious to me that this is one of them.”

Unlike the first President Bush, who viewed himself as a neutral arbiter in the delicate politics of the Middle East, the current president sees his role through the prism of the fight against terrorism. This President Bush, unlike his father, also has deep roots in the evangelical Christian community, a staunchly pro-Israeli component of his conservative Republican base..."

"...The current President Bush has practically cut off Syria and Iran, overlaying his fight against terrorism with the aim of creating what Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice calls “a new Middle East.” In allying himself so closely with Israel, he has departed not just from his father’s approach but also from those of all his recent predecessors, who saw themselves first and foremost as brokers in the region...."

I think George HW should take Dubya behind the woodpile and whup him on the okole until he can't sit down.

Miulang

[kamuelakea]

Re: The "Real" Middle Eastern War

Interesting. Old boy Jamaleddin survives a military strike and his first thoughts are "Where is the Press?" Now, would that be your first thought if your town was just attacked by jets and bombs? I'm sure Jamaleddin was getting those body counts and body parts all lined up for Reuters and AP and the rest of their propagandists.

They said Jamaleddin — who survived the raid — and his relatives were political opponents of Hezbollah.

"Where is the press? Where is the media to see this massacre? Count our dead. Count our body parts," Jamaleddin told The Associated Press by telephone minutes after the missile strike.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060802/...lebanon_israel

[glossyp]

Re: George W. v. George H.W.

Although worshipping the same religion and having the same pedigree, there apparently is a schism between what Bush Sr. and Bush Jr. believe:
I think George HW should take Dubya behind the woodpile and whup him on the okole until he can't sit down.

Miulang

Yeah, like old Bush did such a fine job the first go around in Iraq he has any room to chastise - talk about opportunity wasted.

[Miulang]

Re: George W. v. George H.W.

Yeah, like old Bush did such a fine job the first go around in Iraq he has any room to chastise - talk about opportunity wasted.

At least back then, we had the rest of the world on our side. Today, we only have Israel and Great Britain. And we probably won't have GB after September which is when Blair is supposedly stepping down.

Miulang

[Leo Lakio]

Re: George W. v. George H.W.

At least back then, we had the rest of the world on our side. Today, we only have Israel and Great Britain.

Coalition of the...echo...echo...echo...?

[waioli kai]

US-delivered "Freedom and Democracy

Here's a good one. Suppose a nation or nations decided to give financial support for 'dissidents' to USraeli foreign policy in USraeli occupied Palestine.

Or my favorite, suppose the Soviet Union had claimed to have the right to sponsor American dissidents involvement in the United States political, social and/or economic fabric of the United States. Suppose China or Russia or even some private, cabalist anti-US entity wanted to openly do in the U.S. what some in US's Government/paramilitary/terrorUSt$ have been doing covertly before now,,,,provide U.S. government support for dissent and dissidents against Cuba.

And what is the greatest corporatist demockery ever perpetrated on mankind the United States Government, today via Congress doing? Setting up a cabalUSt process "to help in the transition" of Cuba into a cabalUSt, corporatist, militarUSt appendage to the United States. A process that begins with a Congressional resolution to provide financial aid to 'dissidents in Cuba' as cabalUSt$ already do so aid without any legislative resolution Cuban-American dissidents against Cuba headquartered in the United States. A process that is to involve increase in U.S. cabalUSt$-sponsored propaganda "to help Cuba."

Since BushCheney et al., are in such desperate need of something they can pan off to American citizens as "a victory", especially in the foreign policy realm, USraeli are no doubt encouraged to "reform Cuba" in the same context (in the midst of on-going, distant, virtually all-consuming warfares and conflicts) as they "reformed Grenada, Panama, Nicaragua (with the 'dissidents'/ the contras, Hondurus (with Negroponte), Guatemala, El Salvador, Colombia...other nations "in need" of US-delivered "Freedom and Democracy", intitial delivery being varying dosages of "Shock and Awe".

[Miulang]

Re: The "Real" Middle Eastern War

Ya know what? That "regime change" garbage is wearing a little thin. All that happens is the "dissidents" willingly accept our bux and expertise get in power, and then what do they do? Kick us in our okole. Too much evidence of that to state here, suffice to say, we appear not to ever learn our lesson. What's even funnier, is when those "dissidents" end up with policies that don't square with ours, we spend more money to try to get rid of them! The millions of dollars we spend annually to "spread democracy" throughout the world could be better spent on helping our own people, I think.

Miulang

[Miulang]

The "myth" about Hezbollah hiding among civilians

One Salon reporter who spent time among the Lebanese concludes that the myth about Hezbollah using innocent civilian Lebanese to hide behind is false. (you have to click past a splash page to get to the whole story).

"...But this claim is almost always false. My own reporting and that of other journalists reveals that in fact Hezbollah fighters -- as opposed to the much more numerous Hezbollah political members, and the vastly more numerous Hezbollah sympathizers -- avoid civilians. Much smarter and better trained than the PLO and Hamas fighters, they know that if they mingle with civilians, they will sooner or later be betrayed by collaborators -- as so many Palestinian militants have been.

"...But other [Israeli] attacks seem gratuitous, fishing expeditions, or simply intended to punish anything and anyone even vaguely connected to Hezbollah. Lighthouses, grain elevators, milk factories, bridges in the north used by refugees, apartment buildings partially occupied by members of Hezbollah's political wing -- all have been reduced to rubble.

In the south, where Shiites dominate, just about everyone supports Hezbollah. Does mere support for Hezbollah, or even participation in Hezbollah activities, mean your house and family are fair game? Do you need to fire rockets from your front yard? Or is it enough to be a political activist?

The Israelis are consistent: They bomb everyone and everything remotely associated with Hezbollah, including noncombatants. In effect, that means punishing Lebanon. The nation is 40 percent Shiite, and of that 40 percent, tens of thousands are employed by Hezbollah's social services, political operations, schools, and other nonmilitary functions. The "terrorist" organization Hezbollah is Lebanon's second-biggest employer....

"...So the analysts talking on cable news about Hezbollah "hiding within the civilian population" clearly have spent little time if any in the south Lebanon war zone and don't know what they're talking about. Hezbollah doesn't trust the civilian population and has worked very hard to evacuate as much of it as possible from the battlefield. And this is why they fight so well -- with no one to spy on them, they have lots of chances to take the Israel Defense Forces by surprise, as they have by continuing to fire rockets and punish every Israeli ground incursion.

And the civilians? They see themselves as targeted regardless of their affiliation. They are enraged at Israel and at the United States, the only two countries on earth not calling for an immediate cease-fire. Lebanese of all persuasions think the United States and Israel believe that Lebanese lives are cheaper than Israeli ones. And many are now saying that they want to fight. ..."

Miulang

[Miulang]

Re: The "Real" Middle Eastern War

The Christian Science Monitor, which is usually not very political, had a guest writer who specializes in reporting on the Middle East for European publications make the following observations:

"...A realistic understanding of the conflict, therefore, is one that recognizes that the crux is not in this or that incident or policy, but in Israel's foundational and per- sistent refusal to recognize the humanity of its Palestinian victims. Neither Hizbullah nor Hamas are driven by a desire to "wipe out Jews," as is so often claimed, but by a fundamental sense of injustice that they will not allow to be forgotten.

These groups will continue to enjoy popular legitimacy because they fulfill the need for someone - anyone - to stand up for Arab rights. Israel cannot destroy this need by bombing power grids or rocket ramps. If Israel, like its former political ally South Africa, has the capacity to come to terms with principles of democracy and human rights and accept egalitarian multiracial coexistence within a single state for Jews and Arabs, then the foundation for resentment and resistance will have been removed. If Israel cannot bring itself to do so, then it will continue to be the vortex of regional violence..."

Miulang

[Miulang]

Re: The "Real" Middle Eastern War

An op-ed piece from Ha'aretz, the more liberal of the 2 Israeli dailies on the ill conceived plans of the current conflict:

That is how a campaign of collective punishment that was begun in haste, without proper judgment and on the basis of incorrect assessments, including promises that the army is incapable of fulfilling, turned into a war of life and death, if not some kind of second War of Independence. In the press there have even been embarrassing comparisons to the struggle against Nazism, comparisons that are not only a crude distortion of history, but disgrace the memory of the Jews who were exterminated.
The architect of this unsuccessful campaign has outdone himself: In order to cover up his failures, he delivered a poor man's pseudo-Churchillian speech, and promised us more "pain, tears and blood." There really is no limit to shamelessness. It must be said in favor of the government spokesmen who are in greatest demand on the foreign stations, from the Israel Defense Forces Spokesman to Tourism Minister Isaac Herzog and former prime minister Benjamin Netanyahu -- that none of them has stooped to propaganda of this kind.
The Six-Day War and Yom Kippur War were wars of survival, and through them the IDF was revealed in all its greatness. The present war is the most unsuccessful we have ever had; it is much worse than the first Lebanon War, which at least was properly prepared, and in which, with the exception of gaining control over the Beirut-Damascus highway, the army more or less achieved its goals as determined by then-defense minister Ariel Sharon.
It is frightening to think that those who decided to embark on the present war did not even dream of its outcome and its destructive consequences in almost every possible realm, of the political and psychological damage, the serious blow to the government's credibility, and yes -- the killing of children in vain. The cynicism being demonstrated by government spokesmen, official and otherwise, including several military correspondents, in the face of the disaster suffered by the Lebanese, amazes even someone who has long since lost many of his youthful illusions.

Sound familiar?

Miulang

[kamuelakea]

Re: The "Real" Middle Eastern War

Isn't it disgusting how the terrorist appologists Waioli and Miulang are cutting and pasting and posting and warning and quoting as fast as they can,............................... when Israel is on the offensive.

But when the days news (today) is full of Hezbollah rockets raining down on cities and killing Israelis,......................................... ............ all of the sudden, they are both too busy to post.

Hmmmm.

Silence.

Hello? Anybody there? Hezbollah continues to kill more civilians. The US is offering to train Lebonese military.

Come on Muilang, Hezbollah and Al Qaeda need you. You're going limp on them. Don't be a fair weather fan. Support them through thick and thin.

[Miulang]

Re: The "Real" Middle Eastern War

Isn't it disgusting how the terrorist appologists Waioli and Miulang are cutting and pasting and posting and warning and quoting as fast as they can,............................... when Israel is on the offensive.

But when the days news (today) is full of Hezbollah rockets raining down on cities and killing Israelis,......................................... ............ all of the sudden, they are both too busy to post.

Hmmmm.

Silence.

Hello? Anybody there? Hezbollah continues to kill more civilians. The US is offering to train Lebonese military.

Come on Muilang, Hezbollah and Al Qaeda need you. You're going limp on them. Don't be a fair weather fan. Support them through thick and thin.

So what do you want me to tell you? That the scorecard of deaths is now something like 36 Israelis to over 500 Lebanese? Sure, I can tell you that. I can tell you that Israel is now occupying territory in Lebanon that they said they wouldn't occupy (again lying). I can tell you that the IDF, after an investigation of the Qana bombing, admits that their intelligence was faulty and if they had known there were innocent civilians in the building they wouldn't have bombed the place. Anything else? I can tell you that once upon a time (like 2 weeks ago), Israel even had Jordan and Saudi Arabia (with whom Israel has treaties) denouncing Hezbollah, but now with all the carnage, they are denouncing Israel. It's not about defense, it's about the disproportionality of the fight that has the world worried and upset.

Miulang

P.S. Since you're so gung ho on the overkill capacity of the Israelis, read this story about all the innocent Israelis and Lebanese who were killed today.

[Miulang]

Nasrallah captured in Baalbeck hospital

Mohammed Nasrallah was captured by the crack IDF paratroopers last Tuesday in the bloody battle at Baalbeck. One teensy problem: This Mohammed Nasrallah was not the feared leader of Hezbollah but a 14-year old Lebanese who had the misfortune of having the same name. The Israeli papers made mention of capturing Mohammed Nasrallah and then later said it was not the Nasrallah they thought was hiding there...only they neglected to mention that the Nasrallah they captured was a child.

But the Hizbullah chief is from the southern village of Bazourieh, and is not related to the Nasrallah family from the eastern Baalbeck region.
The family name Nasrallah is common in Lebanon, both in Muslim and Christian communities.
"They untied me, kicked me in the back and told me to go away," he said.
The Israeli soldiers boarded the men on the helicopters, then one of them turned to Mohammed and kicked him, he said.
It was 2:20 am when the helicopters flew out of the region, with the captives whom the Jewish state said were Hizbullah members.
"I started running with my slippers. There was an armed drone which was firing around me. I was not hit, but I was injured by a flying piece of rock in my back. I hid in the first empty house that I saw," he said.

Seems their intelligence was just a little faulty (just like our own Christians in Action), because they supposedly were looking for high level Hezbollah operatives. By the time the incident was reported in the press, those 5 captives that the IDF had brought back to Israel were termed "low level" Hezbollah operatives. When all is said and done, will those 5 terrorists turn out to also be just innocent victims caught in the middle?

Miulang