The "Real" Middle Eastern War

[Miulang]

Re: The "Real" Middle Eastern War

Miulang and Waioli Kai do not get it on a very fundamental level. Way lower than politics or scholarship. This is primal.

"Blessed are the peacekeepers, for they are the children of God." Matthew 5:9

And an interesting interpretation of that passage.

Miulang

[nachodaddy]

Re: The "Real" Middle Eastern War

Took awhile for you for you to compile those thoughts Mr. Kai so if you are done editting I will respond.

The 'horsey' comments are from another thread. Taking an animal out of the wild, breaking it's spirit, polluting it's soul, enslaving it in a pen most likely made of petrochemical analogs (so the termites stay away) is not "saving" it. Double tap between the eyes is more humane. Or simply building a bigger fence.

No relish on this burger, just have never seen such single minded objectiveness over such a wide range of people. Focus. Attributes you would no doubt enjoy in a 911 operator or the policeman responding to the rattling bushes outside of your window or the fireman responding to your flambe' gone awry. Apparently these are undesirable traits in a people trying to protect themselves from systematic genocide.

[Miulang]

Re: The "Real" Middle Eastern War

It ain't no secret who the terrorists are if you ask individual mothers, fathers, and children in small neighborhoods. The neighborhood, in any society, is where the answers are.

And in the impoverished neighborhoods in South Lebanon, guess who built hospitals, created social service organizations, and helped their neighbors? Not the government of Lebanon. It was Hezbollah, trying to take care of its own people. Why didn't the government of Lebanon, which both Israel and the US blessed in democratic elections, do more to win the hearts and minds of those impoverished Arabs?

If you were poor, marginalized and were getting no assistance from anyone, would you not be grateful to a group that came in and made good on their word to help you? These people are poor, pretty much uneducated and naive. To believe that they really had a choice of whether to accept Hezbollah assistance or refuse it on political grounds when their families were in dire straits is a little presumptuous. Accept the help or die. Some choice.

Miulang

[glossyp]

Re: The "Real" Middle Eastern War

If you were poor, marginalized and were getting no assistance from anyone, would you not be grateful to a group that came in and made good on their word to help you?
Miulang

Maybe - until they started lobing rockets from my backyard thereby inviting enemy fire. On the other hand, if I was truly grateful for their assistance and believed in their cause, I would take up arms to help them and feel that what ever I lost, be it my home and/or family, was sacrificed to the greater goal of annihilating the Jews. TimKona is right about the cost of harboring terrorists - fight or don't fight - just don't expect not to be a target.

Edited to add: Unconfirmed reports starting to come in that the building in Qana collapsed nearly eight hours after the IDF airstrike. That will make for an interesting twist if true.

[kamuelakea]

Re: The "Real" Middle Eastern War

Its not just WTC 1993. Lets see, Pan Am over Lockerbie, 2 African embassies, Beirut barracks, USS Cole, what else have I fogot. We have been at war for many many years, most people just don't realize it.

Oh I did forget a few "isolated" incidents by the poor, marginalized impoverished gentlemen from the religion of peace.

There was Bali, there was Madrid Spain and there was London. Thousand of innocents murdered intentionally.

Then the failures like the muslim caught at the Canadian border bringing in bomb materials to blow up the Seattle Space Needle.

Then the shoe bomber Richard Reid who was moments away from downing the plane he was on.

Then there was Jose Padilla who was working on a dirty bomb.

Then all of the failed New York tunnel attacks by our friends in the religion of peace.

Then the Florida Muslims just busted for planning to blow up the Sears Tower.

Then all of the airline cover ups (my opinion) by the U.S. govt in order to protect the airline industry and the economy.


Egypt Air 990
According to the Times, the suspect, a 59-year-old veteran EgyptAir pilot, uttered "Tawakilt ala Allah," which is roughly translated as "I put my faith in God" or "I entrust myself to God," before pointing the plane toward the ocean.
AP quotes an unnamed federal official as saying that the crew member, whose identity he would not confirm, said, "I made my decision now" just before the autopilot was turned off and the plane began its deadly plunge into the Atlantic.


TWA 800
Official cause "static electricity". Hahahahahahha. The entire nose of the 747 was found miles and miles away from the fuelage because it was "blown off" and the plane kept flying without the front third. Static electricity???? The first such event in aviation history. Numerous witness reports of a line of light toward the plane just before crashing.... ie missile???


Siberian Airlines Flight SB 1812 leaving Tel Aviv, Israel
Days after 9-11, there were more than 70 people on board, according to Russian and Israeli sources. Most of the passengers were believed to be Israeli citizens. U.S. officials told ABCNEWS they had indications the Ukrainian military was conducting exercises in the area the plane was brought down. The officials said a "no-fly" area had been established for the exercises but it may not have been large enough. U.S. intelligence is reviewing all data.

"Neither the direction nor the range [of the missiles] correspond to the practical or theoretical point at which the plane exploded," Defense Ministry spokesman Konstantin Khivrenko told Reuters. "So the Ukrainian military has no involvement, either practical or theoretical, in this accident." Basically the Ukrainians first deny any responsibity, then all of the sudden do? Interesting.


American 587
Months after 9-11. New York City. Once again, plane found in 2 places separated by miles. Tail section fell off first and was found miles from crash site. Video surveillance camera from a toll booth show bright flash prior separation. Government blames it on weak composite material in tail. Again a first in aviation history and no government grounding of all 737s for retrofitting. Why? If planes are falling apart, should they be grounded and repaired? Why? Because that's not how this plane came down. Shoe bomber most likely.



Yeah, you're right Miulang, Waioli Kai and all of the muslim apoligists, these are all just unrelated incidents and the real problem with the world is the US and Israel.

Ok, nothing going on people, everyone can go back to your homes and relax. No threat here. Everything is fine.

Oh, and Allah Akbar!

[kamuelakea]

Re: The "Real" Middle Eastern War

If you were poor, marginalized and were getting no assistance from anyone, would you not be grateful to a group that came in and made good on their word to help you? These people are poor, pretty much uneducated and naive. Miulang

Wow, how condescending? Do you really think all Arabs are that ignorant and weak? Almost racist, no? I don’t think they are dumb and weak. I think they like fighting. Americans like baseball, Arabs like war. Your description sounds like the way Southern Whites would describe blacks.

The leader of the pack is Osama Bin Laden, multimillionaire, civil engineer. The second in command is Ayman al-Zawahri, you can call him Doctor. He is a pediatrician from a well to do family in Egypt. Gotta love those kids!

Most of these guys are far from the impoverished, poor, uneducated that you paint them to be.

There is only one person that I think is naive and it isn't the Arab on the street.

[Miulang]

Re: The "Real" Middle Eastern War

This morning on CNN they were interviewing the Arabs who had fled Qana after being leafletted by the Israelis (the leaflets warning the residents to flee were dropped in the middle of the night, prior to the missile being launched) and who came back to help dig out their neighbors who were buried in that building. Apparently all the people killed were members of just two families, families who were too poor or scared to leave. They thought they would be safe in their basement. Of the fifty some-odd individuals who were trapped when that building collapsed, 20 were young children. The villagers who returned said the roads were all bombed out by the Israelis which made it even more difficult to escape. The villagers said it cost more than $150 to rent taxis for their escape, and those killed were too poor to afford that.

The reason the building collapsed, according to what CNN found out, was not because of a direct hit on that building, but the guided missile that was fired was targetted at the building next door. It was the concussion from the explosion on the building next door that caused the building to collapse. This is just speculation, but the "retired military" consultant on CNN opined that if the Israelis had not armed that missile with explosives but had just used a dud bomb, it would have accomplished its objective of destroying the suspected Hezbollah building, probably without causing the collapse of that building next door. Here is a story about the 2 extended families who were killed in that collapse of the building. Most of them suffocated to death.

Miulang

[kamuelakea]

Re: The "Real" Middle Eastern War

This is just speculation, but the "retired military" consultant on CNN opined that if the Israelis had not armed that missile with explosives but had just used a dud bomb, it would have accomplished its objective of destroying the suspected Hezbollah building, probably without causing the collapse of that building next door.Miulang

ahhhhh, nothing like 20/20 hindsight to run a war.

[Miulang]

Re: The "Real" Middle Eastern War

Wow, how condescending? Do you really think all Arabs are that ignorant and weak? Almost racist, no? I don’t think they are dumb and weak. I think they like fighting. Americans like baseball, Arabs like war. Your description sounds like the way Southern Whites would describe blacks.

The leader of the pack is Osama Bin Laden, multimillionaire, civil engineer. The second in command is Ayman al-Zawahri, you can call him Doctor. He is a pediatrician from a well to do family in Egypt. Gotta love those kids!

Most of these guys are far from the impoverished, poor, uneducated that you paint them to be.

There is only one person that I think is naive and it isn't the Arab on the street.

For the time being, there are ideological differences between bin Laden (who is Sunni) and Nasrallah (who is Shia). That is why there is so much sectarian bloodshed in Iraq right now...Shia terrorists hate Sunni terrorists. However, the longer the bombing of Lebanon continues, the more likely that the Shia and Sunni terrorists will feel that they should lay aside their differences and fight against the common enemy...the US and Israel.

I, personally, would be more scared if THAT happened than the situation as it is today.

I am not being condescending. It is the truth. The Arabs in that part of Lebanon have been marginalized, both by Israel and the Lebanese government. I did not say that all Arabs are weak and uneducated. Al Zarqawi was Jordanian, al Zawahri is Egyptian. Bin Laden is Saudi Arabian. Nasrallah is Lebanese (his eldest son was killed by the Israelis). They all came from well-to-do families who gave them the best educations, the best life and they are all extremely charismatic. I don't know of many terrorist leaders who didn't come from privileged families...their followers, of course, are the marginalized, poor and politically weak.

A terrorist primer (they each have slightly different ideologies):
Al Qaeda
Hezbollah
Hamas
PLO
Fatah
Muslim Brotherhood
Abu Nidal

ahhhhh, nothing like 20/20 hindsight to run a war.

And that is why the Israeli government has apologized to the Lebanese people for their mistake.

As many as 700,000 Lebanese civilians have fled their homes as a result of the Israeli campaign against Hezbollah. NPR's Jackie Northam focuses in on a family from the town of Srifa, deep in south Lebanon, which came under heavy Israeli bombing in the opening days of the conflict.

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/s...toryId=5587597

Another view of the South Lebanese

Some people are simply stuck here, with no money or transportation to get out. But many of those who stay, like vegetable dealer Nasser Hawili, are resolute. "Why should I leave? Leave it for who? Leave it for the Israelis? Leave it for the Israelis to come and take it again? I do not want to leave. I want to say," he said.
..."Who are we supposed to be afraid of? Can there be more terror than the fear that we are living under? We fear no one except God, the one who created us, and I spit on them all," she says, referring to the Israeli army, Lebanese politicians. and the international community.

Why some South Lebanese are not fleeing.

Clips from Israeli, Arab (Abu Dhabi) and US news in one videomontage. No wonder the violence continues.

Lebanon is not a unified country. Southern Lebanon is a state-within-a-state. When Hariri was in power, he restoried Beirut to its
"Paris of the Middle East" accolades...and completely ignored the plight of the Arabs in South Lebanon. It is no wonder that that part of the country became a breeding ground for terrorists.

"...Lebanese Prime Minister Rafiq Hariri's devotion to a reconstruction drive that restored much of Beirut's colonial-era architectural grandeur, multicultural charm and entrepreneurial vitality.

As it were, this endeavor disproportionately focused on the Lebanese capital, and altogether omitted the region that straddles Israel. That area was abandoned to the devices of foreign powers -- Syria and Iran -- and to the whims of Hezbollah, an organization that is part of the fundamentalist international that has been attacking the free world since the end of the Cold War. And so, even while Hariri was alive, but particularly since his assassination, south Lebanon emerged as a state-within-a-state, brazenly defying Beirut's mercantilism, liberalism and sovereignty.

In that part of Lebanon, there was hardly a trace of the rock concerts, glitzy malls, well-tailored millionaires, carefree beach culture and stormy night life that have returned to be Beirut's hallmark. Instead, the south saw Shiite fanatics breaking up dance parties, smashing Christian-owned liquor stores and casting their dark shadow on the local education system. The gap between Beirut and south Lebanon was not about the attitude toward Israel but about attitudes toward life itself, about whether Lebanon should join or defy the non-Islamist world's quest for self-empowerment, mobility and prosperity.

This, in essence, is the root cause of the current mayhem. Yes, Hezbollah provoked Israel until it had to respond, but it threatened more than just Israel, or even more than just Lebanon, since it became a breeding ground and a spiritual wellspring for fundamentalist militants worldwide..."

Miulang

[kamuelakea]

Re: The "Real" Middle Eastern War

Do you have any more opinions or apologies for the terrorists? Or are you just a a speed cut and paster now.

You know, it might just be me, but these discussion boards are more interesting when the poster makes a point and uses cut and paste evidence or links and there is some flow of "discussion".

You seem to be on a soap box just yelling stuff.

Are you just trying to get a couple pages forward so that everyone won't see the previous discussion?

[Miulang]

The Official Israeli apology

Do you have nay more opinions or apologies for the terrorists? Or are you just a a speed cut and paster now.

You know, it might just be me, but these discussion boards are more interesting when the poster makes a point and uses cut and paste evidence or links and there is some flow of "discussion".

You seem to be on a soap box just yelling stuff.

Are you just trying to get a couple pages forward so that everyone won't see the previous discussion?

No, PZ said not to quote too much, so you have to do a little work and actually read some of the links if you want to make informed opinions. If you do, you might learn something.

http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/meast/...ion/index.html

Israel has agreed to stop bombing for 48 hours to allow humanitarian aid to be shipped into Qana.

[kamuelakea]

Re: The "Real" Middle Eastern War

No, PZ said not to quote too much, so you have to do a little work and actually read some of the links if you want to make informed opinions. If you do, you might learn something.

Miulang

Don't worry, when you push us to the next page, I'm going to reprint all of the Muslim Terrorist attempts and successes so that everyone can contrast them with your apoligies.

[Miulang]

The 3 main forms of Judaism

Orthodox
Conservative
Reform (Zionist)
Fascinating.

[waioli kai]

SSCondi USrael bound

USraeli Condi's hard work in Qana, in Gaza, in Palestine

At the moment SS Condi has freshened up after spending the night in Tel Aviv or Ersatz Jerusalem in luxury? What's it going to be..?..for another day's service to USrael Condi has already wondered...." Where the heck can I go, who would have me...I had been covered in the blood of mothers and children for eight hours and my best friends didn't even tell me about until after the photo shoot with that blond Zionazi chick. Iraq !! That's it. George can hang in there with his trainer, and Dick is used to waiting, I'll just go to Iraq and play some tunes for my boys for a shift. Besides I'll be better positioned should anything flare up in Iran,,,unless that chick fooled me again and puts some nuclear lights in Iran,,,let's see, oh man,,guess its back to USrael Sweet USrael, Home Sweet Home and my closest USraeli friends."

' In Qana -- scene of another (United Nation outpost and civilian shelter) deadly bombardment 10 years ago -- rescue workers again digging with only their bare hands clawed through rubble of flattened homes and an underground shelter to find survivors while mothers hugged their dead children in a final hopeless embrace.

"The first thing I remember is spinning around. My head hit the wall and I heard screams," said Qassem Shalhoub, who lost many family members. "They were all calling at me. They were saying, 'stop the bleeding.' Others said, 'pull my son from the rubble.'"

Saniora ruled out any talks on putting an end to the conflict until there was an immediate halt to Israel's offensive, signaling the likely failure of Rice's efforts to win support for the deployment of an international force in southern Lebanon, which has borne the brunt of the offensive.'

[Miulang]

Re: The 3 main forms of Judaism

Why? when I link to what is written in the link 'Reform(Zionist) it links to 'Reform Judaism' which is also part of the html

Because of this part of that text: "Since the Holocaust and the establishment of the modern State of Israel, Reform Judaism has largely repudiated Anti-Zionism, though the American Council for Judaism continues to support integration and oppose Jewish nationalism. Some Reform Jews who are not affiliated with the American Council for Judaism may hold anti-Zionist ideas privately, but the official platform of Reform Judaism is now Zionist.