The "Real" Middle Eastern War

[Miulang]

Re: The "Real" Middle Eastern War

I don't believe you. If this were true, you wouldn't be having such a difficult time judging which side TARGETS innocents as a matter of strategy and HIDES AMONGST innocents as a matter of strategy and those who do not.

You are more against the killing of some innocents than you are of others. It is obvious from what you write.

Believe what you will. I'm not wasting anymore time parrying with you because your only intention is to have the last word. The reason why the US is failing in Iraq and why the Zionists are failing in Lebanon is because both the US and Israel have been training for conventional war. Enough said.

Miulang

[kamuelakea]

Re: The "Real" Middle Eastern War

P.S. If the government was so smart, why didn't they learn from the FIRST WTC bombings in 1993 that they should be prepared for another attack someday?

For the same reasons that those on the left are crying for now. Stop phone record fishing, close guantanamo, give terrorists a lawyer, treat prisoners of war like ACLU citizens of the US. The Govenments hands are tied. Bill Clinton was taped recorded admitting that Bin Laden was offered to him by the Sudan. Genius, liberal, ethical moral gentleman that he is, he declined because of lack of evidence. So,.... 3000 dead, billions in damage.

Its not just WTC 1993. Lets see, Pan Am over Lockerbie, 2 African embassies, Beirut barracks, USS Cole, what else have I fogot. We have been at war for many many years, most people just don't realize it.

This is a war with barbarians who have nothing to lose. Not even a country. It is a clash of philosophies. We cannot fight this war with the rules of the Geneva Conventions.

[Miulang]

Dan Halutz: the man behind the mission

From tomorrow's Jerusalem Post:

"...Olmert, Peretz and their cabinet colleagues might not be ideal leaders for a country at war, but they're nothing if not astute politicians and have been quick to realize the challenge Halutz is posing to their authority. That could have well been a factor in their decision on Thursday not to accept his plans for widening the ground offensive in southern Lebanon. (Shades of Arik again?) But they were still sufficiently in awe of the Chief of the General Staff to authorize his calling up three reserve divisions, giving him the option of carrying out his plans in the near future.

From a political perspective, the cabinet's vote is actually to Halutz's benefit. So far the criticism of the way the IDF is handling the conflict has stopped at the generals on the northern front. If Israel emerges victorious from this war, Halutz will get most of the public acclaim. If the outcome is less than successful, he will always be able to remind us that he was in favor of a different strategy, but as an officer in uniform, had no choice but to bow to the politicians' wishes."

Hezbollah is still acting stupid, but at least they are willing to consider a cease fire, unlike Israel and the US, but at the expense of many more innocent Lebanese civilians:

"...Hizbullah chief Sayyed Hassan Nasrallah vowed on Saturday to strike cities in the center of Israel, declaring that the Jewish state had failed to win any military victory after days of bloody clashes with his group.

The Hizbullah leader also hailed his fighters' "legendary resistance" in the deadly clashes on the ground as sparking increasing calls worldwide for a political settlement to the conflict...

"...He declared that Hizbullah's "victory" in battles with Israeli ground troops should not frighten citizens in Lebanon.

"Victory will be for all of Lebanon, all its religious communities, regions, movements... it will be a victory to any honorable Arab, Muslim and Christian who stood against the aggression," he said.

"Victory should be an incentive for more love and unity among the Lebanese. Nobody should be scared from the victory of the resistance, but from the failure of the resistance."

One of the weirdest and saddest things for us as Americans is that as we send more missiles and Apache helicopters to aid Israel in its attempts to roust Hezbollah and as our proxy to rid the world of terrorism, we are also destroying infrastructure and killing innocent Lebanese who are caught in the middle. At the same time, we, the taxpayers are also sending more than $30 million in humanitarian aid to help the very same people the Israelis are trying to destroy. Ironic, isn't it? I guess that's called "being fair".

From Beirut today: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MAqLt...&search=beirut

From Haifa: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0LGgb...ch=haifa%20war

Israeli bombs over Gaza: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DI9sF...rch=gaza%20war

Miulang

[kamuelakea]

Re: The "Real" Middle Eastern War

Kam, you just crush'em with facts.

I going get Timkona foah carry Hawaiian Soveriegnty Signs at da next rally yet. You juss watch.

Aloha Brah.

One of the weirdest and saddest things for us as Americans is that as we send more missiles and Apache helicopters to aid Israel ........".

Miulang,

Care to guess who one of the biggest supporters of Israel in the Senate is??? The man has personally directed millions to Israel over the years.

Answer: Dan Inouye

Yep, go look it up.

The reason Israel is so important is that they are the canary in the coal mine. The are the lone democracy in the middle of a caulderon of Middle East hate and intolerance and dictatorships.

Israel must succeed. That being said, if I could pick the country up by thier collar, I'ld like to hold um with my left hand and geeve up one big slap with my right. I think that Israel knows that they are our canary in the coal mine and has tried to exploit that over the years by expanding into settlements etc. They are not without blame.

But in the end. They are the regions only true democracy. Their neighbors harbor most of the worlds terroists and religious fanaticism. That's why Dan Inouye and the rest of the U.S. government supports them so much.

[Miulang]

Re: The "Real" Middle Eastern War

"Jerusalem-Based Rabbi Discusses Current Conflict" (8 minutes):http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H6XU1...rch=gaza%20war

"Luke," an American graduate student conducting research in Bethlehem, a primarily Christian Palestinian city, describes life in Bethlehem during the present Mid East crisis." (10 minutes):http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8oz8DQhC4jk&NR

Zionism v. Judaism:
Part 1: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t-JrU...elated&search=
Part 2:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bFwpu...elated&search=
Part 3:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2g5Nz...elated&search=
Part 4: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ei3yu...elated&search=
Part 5:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V2ba9...elated&search=
Part 6: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t3-Up...elated&search=

[nachodaddy]

Re: The "Real" Middle Eastern War

You Tube is soooooo cool.......

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J1A22XYhN3w

Samuel, it has been a pleasure watching you work. I think I just heard a death rattle.

[Miulang]

Re: The "Real" Middle Eastern War

The reason Israel is so important is that they are the canary in the coal mine. The are the lone democracy in the middle of a caulderon of Middle East hate and intolerance and dictatorships.

Israel must succeed. That being said, if I could pick the country up by thier collar, I'ld like to hold um with my left hand and geeve up one big slap with my right. I think that Israel knows that they are our canary in the coal mine and has tried to exploit that over the years by expanding into settlements etc. They are not without blame.

But in the end. They are the regions only true democracy.

No it's not a canary in a coal mine. It's a proxy for us to fight terrorism. Ask Orthodox Jews if they agree that Jews should hate Muslims. Only Reformed Jews ("Zionists") want to pulverize the Muslims. Orthodox Jews (the ones who follow the Torah the most strictly) say that Jews are forbidden to have a state.(see the youtube videos "Zionism vs. Judaism" below).

The entire Congress/Senate of the US support Israel. I'm not disputing that. But how many of them have actually learned the difference between Zionism and Judaism, how many have learned about how Muslims and Jews used to live in harmony for hundreds of years before Zionism and the state of Israel was created? AIPAC is probably the most powerful lobby in the history of Congress, and they wield a lot of influence with the members of Congress. And http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Isr...Foreign_Policy.
And this about CNI, a lobbying group set up to try to counter the effects of AIPAC in Congress.

Miulang

[MadAzza]

Re: The "Real" Middle Eastern War

One of the weirdest and saddest things for us as Americans is that as we send more missiles and Apache helicopters to aid Israel in its attempts to roust Hezbollah and as our proxy to rid the world of terrorism, we are also destroying infrastructure and killing innocent Lebanese who are caught in the middle.

Israel is sick of this bullshit, and they're fighting back. They wouldn't have to fight back if Lebanon's Hezbollah representatives hadn't attacked them.

Here, let me say it again: Hezbollah attacked first.

As far as all that propaganda with the photos of innocent little Lebanese children injured by Israeli bombs, why doesn't anyone ask them why their parents put members of a terrorist organization into positions of power? And then allowed Hezbollah to attack Israel? And you seriously think this is Israel's fault?

This shit isn't happening in a vacuum. Israel has had it up to here and is defending itself. They're sick of this shit. Hezbollah's charter demands the destruction of Israel. Hezbollah, not Israel, decided that "innocent" Lebanese peope were worth the sacrifice toward that goal. Why don't you direct your anger toward them? ... oh, but that wouldn't do any good, would it? Because they are the ones who REALLY do not give one tiny goddamn about anyone else. So that would be pissing in the wind, and you know it.

And you (the general "you," the deluded extremists, not necessarily you personally, Miulang) know that you can't reason with Hezbollah. So you direct your misplaced anger, your typically left-wing, self-righteous, always annoying to everyone else indignation toward Israel, because you KNOW that Israelis are reasonable. You know this by their actions, by their history. So you appeal to them, not those murderous, sneaky mother******s who attacked them, and who exist only to kill every Jew on the planet. You can't reason with them. You can't "demand" that they agree to a cease-fire. So you go for the easy target, the reasonable people: Israel.

Kinda like the PETA types who go after magazine models in fur coats, rather than the burly, tattooed, steel-toed-boot-wearing biker guys in leather jackets who are standing right in front of them. The weak little wimpies pick their fights based not on right or wrong, but on whom they think they can bully with bullshit.

Also: re: Hezbollah's supposed proposed agreement to a cease-fire: Anyone who thinks they can negotiate a cease-fire with a terrorist organization, or other single-minded enemy, is naive beyond belief. This was proven in World War II, when a temporary cessation of hostilities gave Hitler time to move his troops into better position. Ask the French who survived that slaughter how they feel about a "cease-fire" with a deranged enemy. Go on, ask. I'll wait.

[waioli kai]

sUStainable massacres in The Real War

Qana massacre , Re: The Real War

Israeli Attack Kills Dozens as Rice Cancels Lebanon Trip

An attack in the Lebanese town of Qana appeared to propel the conflict, and the American diplomatic effort to address it, into a critical new escalation.

QANA, Lebanon, July 30 — A series of Israeli airstrikes in this small mountain town today killed dozens of people in the deadliest single attack in the war here so far, prompting Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice to cancel a trip to Lebanon, where she had been due to hold talks with government officials nearly three weeks into the fighting. ...

The Israeli prime minister, Ehud Olmert, said Israel needed another 10 to 14 days to press its offensive, according to a senior Israeli official. ...

The strikes on Qana came as Ms. Rice was in Israel to press for a substantive agreement that could lead to a more rapid cease-fire and the insertion of an international force along the Lebanon ....

“I felt as if I was turning around, and the earth was going up, and I was going into the earth,” said Mohamed Chaloub, a father of five who was thrown into a doorway and managed to escape. All five of his children, including a 2-year-old child, were killed. His wife, sister and aunt were also killed. ... '

The Real War : Myth vs. Reality

Myth: Israel

Reality: Palestine

Sustainable cease-fire verses sUStainable massacres

"... a wider window --- a broader change --- "A more permanent solution" ,

that's what we're going to call this week's broadening of change in the Middle East

opening the wounds for greater access, opening the womb with instuments of war, giving birth to Zionazirael, our permanent solution."

"Having a forward deployed asset in the Middle East is important for the U.S. "

Finally, an unequivocable zionUSt statement concerning what importance Israel really is to United States' zionUSts militarUSt$ : Israel is zionUSts' "forward deployed asset in the Middle East", FOB IsreallHell.

"The Israel ground force is one of the toughest mofo's on the planet earth cuz they have to be. I have worked with them. They are supported by one of the toughest governments on the planet earth as well with a lot of influence in a lot of different places. "

'Worked with them Zionizt mofo's and relished/relish the experience' you say? Such pride and purpuss! "Domesticate" any horses, chickens, or other creatures on your visit there?

nachodaddy says, "Go domesticate a Waipio Valley horse, it will make you feel better." , no doubt from experience. Poor horse.

[nachodaddy]

Re: The "Real" Middle Eastern War

No it's not a canary in a coal mine. It's a proxy for us to fight terrorism. Ask Orthodox Jews if they agree that Jews should hate Muslims. Only Reformed Jews ("Zionists") want to pulverize the Muslims. Orthodox Jews (the ones who follow the Torah the most strictly) say that Jews are forbidden to have a state.(see the youtube videos "Zionism vs. Judaism" below).

The entire Congress/Senate of the US support Israel. I'm not disputing that. But how many of them have actually learned the difference between Zionism and Judaism, how many have learned about how Muslims and Jews used to live in harmony for hundreds of years before Zionism and the state of Israel was created? AIPAC is probably the most powerful lobby in the history of Congress, and they wield a lot of influence with the members of Congress. And http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Isr...Foreign_Policy.
And this about CNI, a lobbying group set up to try to counter the effects of AIPAC in Congress.

Miulang

I will have to finish this train of thought before you spin off on another tangent not germaine to the present conversation. Your attempt to seperate the Jewish faith into convenient labels is not going diminish their combined power one iota.

Having a forward deployed asset in the Middle East is important for the U.S. Regardless if they are "a canary in the coalmine" or "a proxy to fight terrorism" is just throwing around semantics. It is one and the same.

The Israel ground force is one of the toughest mofo's on the planet earth cuz they have to be. I have worked with them. They are supported by one of the toughest governments on the planet earth as well with a lot of influence in a lot of different places. That leaves their ground force focused on their current mission without the passive aggressive "I support the troops, I just don't support the war" NIMBY drivel that people have to say to themselves so they can go to bed KNOWING they made the right decision.

I was slated to visit the Intel facility there but due to the present situation, I am going to wait a few months. BTW, I bet the chip in your computer was designed there. Not worried about my health, tho. Overseas assets are very well protected there. I will be escorted by a "private security contractor" during my stay which is a lot more comforting that being escorted by a 20 year old kid whose sister posts on bulletin boards. I hope I get a Fijian one this time, they always have funny stories to tell.

Samuel had you at checkmate quite a few posts ago. My response is for the general audience not you. You (not the general "you") left reality a long time ago. Free country, right????? Go domesticate a Waipio Valley horse, it will make you feel better.

[waioli kai]

Qana massacre: The Real War

Qana massacre , Re: The Real War

Israeli Attack Kills Dozens as Rice Cancels Lebanon Trip

An attack in the Lebanese town of Qana appeared to propel the conflict, and the American diplomatic effort to address it, into a critical new escalation.

QANA, Lebanon, July 30 — A series of Israeli airstrikes in this small mountain town today killed dozens of people in the deadliest single attack in the war here so far, prompting Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice to cancel a trip to Lebanon, where she had been due to hold talks with government officials nearly three weeks into the fighting. ...

The Israeli prime minister, Ehud Olmert, said Israel needed another 10 to 14 days to press its offensive, according to a senior Israeli official. ...

The strikes on Qana came as Ms. Rice was in Israel to press for a substantive agreement that could lead to a more rapid cease-fire and the insertion of an international force along the Lebanon ....

“I felt as if I was turning around, and the earth was going up, and I was going into the earth,” said Mohamed Chaloub, a father of five who was thrown into a doorway and managed to escape. All five of his children, including a 2-year-old child, were killed. His wife, sister and aunt were also killed. ... '

[Miulang]

Re: The "Real" Middle Eastern War

Please try to separate Zionism from Judaism and Hezbollah from Islam. Judaism and Islam are religions, Zionism and Hezbollah are political movements. It is Zionism that is at war with Hezbollah, not Israel against Lebanon (which is comprised of 40% Shia).

After the killings in Qana this morning, I'm sure there are just as many Israelis who are saddened and angered by the "mistake" the IDF made by the overuse of force as there are Lebanese who hate Hezbollah for continuing to lob missiles into Israel and perpetuating the bloodshed.

And this report from the Lebanese news source Naharnet on the demonstration at the US Embassy in Beirut after the Qana incident.

Sadly,
Miulang

[glossyp]

Re: The "Real" Middle Eastern War

The woman murdered in Seattle identified.

How and why tragedies like Qana happen. Photos and story of Hezbollah using neighborhoods for launching rockets.

[Miulang]

Re: The "Real" Middle Eastern War

The woman murdered in Seattle identified.

How and why tragedies like Qana happen. Photos and story of Hezbollah using neighborhoods for launching rockets.

The other victims.
The shooter. And this.
The reaction of the Seattle community.

From the other local daily. And this, about the shooter. Hmmm...he appears to have been baptised as a CHRISTIAN a few months before he shot those poor women...

Miulang

[timkona]

Re: The "Real" Middle Eastern War

Some would protest at an embassy.

Others would go after the terrorists within their ranks and slay them.

Terrorists thrive in situations where the most angered can only muster a demonstration at an embassy rather than a vigilante hunt & kill mission.

It ain't no secret who the terrorists are if you ask individual mothers, fathers, and children in small neighborhoods. The neighborhood, in any society, is where the answers are.

It is the people who would harbor the terror by virtue of their inaction/tacit approval that should be blown up along with the bad guys.

Fight or don't fight. You get no other choices. It's very binary.

I bet Miulang would be very upset if some crazed lunatic broke into their home, tied them all up, ate their food, and slept in their beds for 48 hours, fired off a couple rockets, and then skedaddled.

Or maybe Miulang's neighbor might notice something strange AND ACT???

Miulang and Waioli Kai do not get it on a very fundamental level. Way lower than politics or scholarship. This is primal.