Iraq War Called Illegal by Hawai‘i Army Lieutenant

[alohabear]

Re: Iraq War Called Illegal by Hawai‘i Army Lieutenant

He still going PRISON!

Bye bye Watada. No cry Watada. You going make money selling your story wen you come out to whoeva like buy if dey remeba.

Lynn Vasquez

Yeah, da story going be called "Shame...yeah?" the Watada story.....Coming soon to LIFETIME!

[craigwatanabe]

Re: Iraq War Called Illegal by Hawai‘i Army Lieutenant

I think the Army should've just charged him with insubordination and there wouldn't have been all of this hoopla about his political statement.

Hey we were wrong to have gone into Afghanistan back when Carter was our president but nobody seemed to mind back then.

Remember the mistake Bush is talking about is when we did go in back then and high tailed it out when it got too intense. 20-years later revenge came swift. We leave now retribution against the U.S. will make 9-11 look like nothing.

[Miulang]

Re: Iraq War Called Illegal by Hawai‘i Army Lieutenant

The story of how Lt. Ehren Watada went from being an Eagle Scout growing up in Hawai'i to a soldier and officer who now willingly opposes the occupation of Iraq and the consequences (i.e., potential jail time) of his refusal to deploy. His court martial starts on Monday at Ft. Lewis. With so many eyes watching this trial, my guess is that he will be found guilty of refusing obey orders to deploy (the charges of conduct unbecoming an officer have already been dropped) and gets 18 months and a dishonorable discharge. The military courts are bent on making Lt. Watada an example to other troops, and the antiwar folks are bent on making him a martyr for their cause.The jail time would be ironic, because there have been recent instances of AWOL soldiers who turned themselves in who didn't have to face prison.

Miulang

[joshuatree]

Re: Iraq War Called Illegal by Hawai‘i Army Lieutenant

The story of how Lt. Ehren Watada went from being an Eagle Scout growing up in Hawai'i to a soldier and officer who now willingly opposes the occupation of Iraq and the consequences (i.e., potential jail time) of his refusal to deploy. His court martial starts on Monday at Ft. Lewis. With so many eyes watching this trial, my guess is that he will be found guilty of refusing obey orders to deploy (the charges of conduct unbecoming an officer have already been dropped) and gets 18 months and a dishonorable discharge. The military courts are bent on making Lt. Watada an example to other troops, and the antiwar folks are bent on making him a martyr for their cause.The jail time would be ironic, because there have been recent instances of AWOL soldiers who turned themselves in who didn't have to face prison.

Miulang

Very little sympathy here. He could have done conscientious objector but he didn't want to do that. He joined the military after 9/11 knowing well we are actively deploying left and right. You can't pick and choose your theaters. You want to object and protest? Do it like all civilian protesters do, not when you are wearing a uniform. Or like mentioned before, become a conscientious objector. If all soldiers started doing this, you would not have a professional military nor discipline and order.

[alohabear]

Re: Iraq War Called Illegal by Hawai‘i Army Lieutenant

One thing I cannot stand is the incorrect use of the word troop.

Main Entry: 1troop
Pronunciation: 'trüp
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle French trope, troupe company, herd, of Germanic origin; akin to Old English thorp, throp village -- more at THORP
1 a : a group of soldiers b : a cavalry unit corresponding to an infantry company c plural : ARMED FORCES, SOLDIERS
2 : a collection of people or things : CREW 2
3 : a flock of mammals or birds
4 : the basic organizational unit of Boy Scouts or Girl Scouts under an adult leader

When I hear or read about 1 or 2 of our "troops" dying it sounds wrong. it should be soldier.

Main Entry: 1sol·dier
Pronunciation: 'sOl-j&r
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English soudeour, from Anglo-French soudeer, soudeour mercenary, from soudee shilling's worth, wage, from sou, soud shilling, from Late Latin solidus solidus
1 a : one engaged in military service and especially in the army b : an enlisted man or woman c : a skilled warrior

Not Troops....get it right!

[Adri]

Re: Iraq War Called Illegal by Hawai‘i Army Lieutenant

Lt. Watada appears to be continuing his public appeal to question the legality of the Iraq War. I’m wondering if this could be a prelude to one of the biggest anti-war protests since Vietnam.

I disremember where I read it but there was an article stating that no American court would find in favor of Watada's argument that he was correct to refuse orders because the war is illegal not just because of the political implications of a US court stating that the war is illegal but because that would make all the military personnel who did go criminals. Somehow that had not occurred to me before, but I guess it's true. If Watada is right, then all the other military people over there would have had a duty to do the same that Watada did. Watada must know he is not going to win his case.

joshuatreeThere are criteria for being classified a conscientious objector. It's not a slam dunk of just self declaring. From what I have read so far, he would not have met the criteria.

[Miulang]

Re: Iraq War Called Illegal by Hawai‘i Army Lieutenant

I disremember where I read it but there was an article stating that no American court would find in favor of Watada's argument that he was correct to refuse orders because the war is illegal not just because of the political implications of a US court stating that the war is illegal but because that would make all the military personnel who did go criminals. Somehow that had not occurred to me before, but I guess it's true. If Watada is right, then all the other military people over there would have had a duty to do the same that Watada did. Watada must know he is not going to win his case.

joshuatreeThere are criteria for being classified a conscientious objector. It's not a slam dunk of just self declaring. From what I have read so far, he would not have met the criteria.

A minor point of clarification: a court martial is a military trial and is a separate entity from the civil justice system. It's governed by the Uniform Code of Military Justice (UCMJ). So theoretically, a member of the military could have to face both a military and a civilian court for certain offenses.

Military justice is a separate entity from civilian justice. Members of the military can be tried in a court-martial (military court) under the rules of the Uniform Code of Military Justice (UCMJ). The UCMJ defines crimes that are the same as those in civilian courts, such as murder, rape, and robbery. But it also includes violations of order and discipline, such as disobedience to a superior officer, drunkenness on duty, misconduct as a prisoner of war, even adultery.

The UCMJ was first established in 1950, and underwent a major revision in 1968. Military law did not suddenly spring into existence in 1950, but the UCMJ was the first attempt to turn the existing law into a comprehensive code. The system of courts-martial do not exempt a service member from trial by the civil authority - but the courts-martial can be, and often are, used in place of civil courts for all offenses committed by a service member, even if the act is committed off-base and while off-duty.

Miulang

[Adri]

Re: Iraq War Called Illegal by Hawai‘i Army Lieutenant

Thanks for the clarification. I didn't mean he was being tried in a non-military court or tribunal.

[Miulang]

1st day of the trial

Recap of Day 1 of the court martial. Actor Sean Penn was standing with a group of Lt. Watada supporters outside the gates of Ft. Lewis today.

Also, an interview with Lt. Watada.

Miulang

[Miulang]

Re: Iraq War Called Illegal by Hawai‘i Army Lieutenant

Recap of Day 2 of the court martial. Lt. Watada is expected to testify tomorrow. The question now is not if he is guilty as charged but how long he should be jailed, since the lead judge has basically said most of the defense witnesses cannot testify because their testimony has no bearing on his refusal to deploy.

Miulang

[Leo Lakio]

Re: Iraq War Called Illegal by Hawai‘i Army Lieutenant

Just announced: WATADA COURT-MARTIAL ENDS IN MISTRIAL
The judge overseeing the court-martial of an Army officer who refused to deploy to Iraq declared a mistrial Wednesday, saying 1st Lt. Ehren Watada did not fully understand a document he signed admitting to elements of the charges.

[1stwahine]

Re: Iraq War Called Illegal by Hawai‘i Army Lieutenant

Just announced: WATADA COURT-MARTIAL ENDS IN MISTRIAL
The judge overseeing the court-martial of an Army officer who refused to deploy to Iraq declared a mistrial Wednesday, saying 1st Lt. Ehren Watada did not fully understand a document he signed admitting to elements of the charges.

Wat? Eh? Uh....wat dat mean?

Auntie Lynn

[Miulang]

Re: Iraq War Called Illegal by Hawai‘i Army Lieutenant

Just announced: WATADA COURT-MARTIAL ENDS IN MISTRIAL
The judge overseeing the court-martial of an Army officer who refused to deploy to Iraq declared a mistrial Wednesday, saying 1st Lt. Ehren Watada did not fully understand a document he signed admitting to elements of the charges.

I think the decision sucks, because it prolongs the agony. The Army will probably ask to have the charges revisited. Judge Head is going to try to interview Lt. Watada this afternoon to make sure he clearly understood what he was signing.

But Eric Seitz, Watada's attorney, objected to the questioning. He said the stipulation should include Watada's reasons for not going to Iraq: His views that the war is illegal.

..."It has always been his position that not only would he miss movement but he would not participate in a war he considered illegal" and not participate in war crimes, Seitz said.

"His specific intent was of a different character all together" than simply missing his unit's deployment to Iraq, Seitz said.

But Head said he wanted to inquire about the stipulation to make sure there wasn't a "material misunderstanding" in it.

If Head can't question Watada and make sure the stipulation is accurate, he would have to throw the document out. That would mean the two charges that had been dropped would be returned against Watada.

Miulang

[1stwahine]

Re: Iraq War Called Illegal by Hawai‘i Army Lieutenant

Mahalo Tita Miulang for the explanation.

K-den. My personal feelings which is nothing of course.heheheh

Watada's lawyer should have just shut his darn mouth and let things go as is. Watada is going to Prison anyways ~ get it over with. Be a man. Pau. Now, going make it longer and the possibility of having two other charges attached again. Aiyah!

Some people's children just don't know wen to shut-up!

Just my opinion on this rainy day in Hawai'i nei.

Auntie Lynn

[LikaNui]

Re: Iraq War Called Illegal by Hawai‘i Army Lieutenant

The article at this link says, in part:

"The judge overseeing the court-martial of an Army lieutenant who refused to deploy to Iraq declared a mistrial today, saying the soldier did not fully understand a document he signed admitting to elements of the charges.
"Military judge Lt. Col. John Head announced the decision after 1st Lt. Ehren Watada said he never intended to admit he had a duty to go to Iraq with his fellow soldiers"

Gee, Watada claims to be a bright guy... but he didn't understand the document he signed?!? And his own attorney didn't understand it either?!??
BULLFEATHERS.