Was my Hawaii trip false? sheltered? naive?

[mjj]

Hey Everyone,


I just found your site while searching for a possible move to Hawaii and I wanted to get some feedback from you guys on this subject. I just got back from a week long trip to Oahu (my first and only real vacation) and I had such an incredible time that I'm actually pretty depressed to be back in California. The people are the main reason I miss it. My friend and I met so many nice people from all over, even the locals were nice to us, freely gave out their numbers to hang out. Had a blast at the Karaoke bar and they wouldn’t even let us chip it to help pay. People smile and greet you like they really meant it. I've never been a very social person or rather I've never been able to be a very social person but over there it was so easy, people are nice to you first so you have problem being friendly in return. I found the entertainment and alcohol to actually be a bit cheaper and with the friendly service you don’t even mind tipping.

I'm half white / half Filipino but I look 1000% white, so it doesn’t really help anything and didn’t find any trouble with the locals like I've been reading up on. I was also traveling with a pinoy that actually looks pinoy so that may be the reason (maybe they thought he was local).

Furthermore, wow, I have never seen so many beautiful Asian girls in one place at one time in my life and from what I hear the stream is never ending. (I generally date asian girls anyway, white girls don’t like me because I don’t drive big trucks, motorcycles, etc, you know the general stereotypes that put those girls out of reach). I find the Japanese girls particularly intriguing and I don’t know why.

By the time it was time to go I couldn’t wait to get home and start looking for a job on Oahu, get rid of things I don’t need and start taking Japanese classes. But, after reading the forums for a few hours I have become deflated as I guess things are how I thought they were. So I wanted to get some feed back from you guys on the reality of Hawaii and what you think my prospects might be.

I'm 25, single, no real attachments to California (though was born here). I only see my parents a few times a year anyway so that’s not a problem. I currently make around $65,000 a year running IT for small companies with 7 years experience and I can do pretty much any IT related job. I have about 30K in the bank from a home sale, not that I'm really willing to spend it all to go broke and come home to the mainland if that’s a real risk?

So my questions are:

1. Did I just get lucky and meet some good people who treated me nice because I was a tourist (and a haoles traveling with an Asian looking person)? Or are people generally this friendly to everyone? Would it be different if I lived there?

2. Are jobs really that hard to come by? even worse if your not from there and are clearly white? Any one know about IT jobs in particular?

The idea was pretty much dead in my mind until I read some of the just do it posts so I wanted to get your guys feedback before I give up the idea and get bummed, the bottom line is, if Hawaii really is as unwelcoming to mainland "invaders" (particularly white guys), then that kinda cancels the reasons I wanted to live there.

Please post any and all thoughts on the subject negative or positive hit me with the raw truth.

Thanks a lot.

Mike

[kamuelakea]

Re: Was my Hawaii trip false? sheltered? naive?

So my questions are:

1. Did I just get lucky and meet some good people who treated me nice because I was a tourist (and a haoles traveling with an Asian looking person)? Or are people generally this friendly to everyone? Would it be different if I lived there?

2. Are jobs really that hard to come by? even worse if your not from there and are clearly white? Any one know about IT jobs in particular?

Mike

Yes and Yes. Hawaii is like anywhere else. Read the police beat in the daily online papers. Murder, rape, highest in property crime, highest in Meth use, etc etc. You got the good and the bad.

As far as "locals" versus "Haole", you just have to understand what it is. It is an attempt by the 90% of Hawaii population of immigrants to try to feel "more local" den da odda guy. The only way they can do that is at the expense of someone else. It is not limited to "local" and "haole". 3rd Generation Filipinos will tease and demean newly arrived filipino immigrants regarding their accent etc. Kama'aina Haoles love to publically attack malahini haoles. Of course "Asians" in general try to morph into pseudo-Hawaiians to anyone ignorant enough to buy it. Once you understand the big picture, you won't take it as personally.

As far as income. You would be in the top 5% in income at 65,000. And with 25 year olds, you would be in the top .1%. Expect to take a whopping pay cut with increased costs for food and energy relative to California.

[1stwahine]

Re: Was my Hawaii trip false? sheltered? naive?

Aloha and Welcome Mike! You have a good persona about you anyway. People can feel one's heart from a mile away. Hawai'i is SPECIAL. Most folks in general are caring and will show you what is the true meaning of Aloha and Love. There is still the those out there who are grouches...they are minimal. Das Life anywhere you go.

Life is what you make of it. Keep positive, hang around people who will not bring you down. Especially, people who will make you laugh and smile all the time. Reality ~ jobs. As long as you have skills and heart to survive and are willing to make the sacrafice to succeed...you will. No matter where you go.

Good Luck and God Bless

Auntie Lynn

[Whitepoint3rchum]

Re: Was my Hawaii trip false? sheltered? naive?

Hey Everyone,


...I'm actually pretty depressed to be back in California.

WTF? Seriously sir, California is no placed to be depressed about living. Trust me. California compared to the vast majority of other states is HEAVEN.

[damontucker]

Re: Was my Hawaii trip false? sheltered? naive?

Furthermore, wow, I have never seen so many beautiful Asian girls in one place at one time in my life and from what I hear the stream is never ending. (I generally date asian girls anyway, white girls don’t like me because I don’t drive big trucks, motorcycles, etc, you know the general stereotypes that put those girls out of reach). I find the Japanese girls particularly intriguing and I don’t know why.

Aloha Mike...
I agree 100% Hawaii's wahines are beautiful!
Is there something with that name mike that seems to love the local girls so much out there? Another HT poster Mike Lowery seems to have the same views at times. http://www.hawaiithreads.com/showthr...9689:rolleyes:

good luck on finding a job here

[Supercub]

Re: Was my Hawaii trip false? sheltered? naive?

My advice is this: do NOT judge Hawaii based on this message board. People like to discuss controversial issues, and those controversial issues often involve race and "local" versus malahini. Take it with a grain of salt.

Your week in O'ahu is almost certainly not a 100% accurate reflection on life in Hawaii. You were on vacation after all. However, your experiences do reflect the character of Hawaii to a certain extent.

[pzarquon]

Re: Was my Hawaii trip false? sheltered? naive?

Mike,

First of all, know that Kamuelaka's outlook on life is pretty much all race-based (review his posting history for some context), and that many if not most of us disagree strenuously with his point of view. It's one that you should be aware of, as you'd easily run into other Kamuelaka's here, but just know that it's not representative. The "local haole" I know are very helpful of "malihini haole," the Filipinos I know help the newcomers from the Philippines, and so on.

IMHO, life isn't all about getting ahead at the expense of others, attacking and dominating, and the like. Though I'm sure some "natural order" folks feel that way.

But I'll tell you one thing, if you lookfor racism and conflict, you'll find it. It'd be naive to say it doesn't exist. And if there's one thing Kamuelaka says that even I say, it's that Hawaii is very cognizant and open about race. I'd say that differs from racism, but folks can disagree. We talk, joke, and yes, fight about it often, but that's 'cause it's right there. It makes some folks uncomfortable. I doubt these conversations can happen as easily in a homogenous community.

Anyway. My main point: vacation Hawaii is not everyday life Hawaii. If you stayed a week, but only saw the sights and ate at all the nice places, you have no idea what life is like for those who have to earn a living here. If you stayed in Waikiki, and drove up to Haleiwa, and saw the Arizona Memorial and Polynesian Cultural Center, I'm sure you had a good time, but you're definitely on track with your concerns, because you had nothing to worry about except having a good time and ogling Asian girls.

You were on vacation. In which case, yes, your Hawaii trip was sheltered and naive. Yes, you were treated differently because you were visiting. The visitor industry wanted your money, the locals knew you were leaving.

Everyday Hawaii life is like night and day compared to the tourist's life. People can spend two hours a day in traffic. Work two or three jobs to pay $1,800 rent on a small, old house way out of town, only dreaming of the day they can save up enough money to buy a $600,000 home. In addition to housing, we pay more than most for gas, for groceries... like everywhere else, we stress about public education, incompetent and corrupt politicians, overdevelopment and failing infrastructure... we lament that we can't provide opportunities for our own kids, and yes, lament the influx of outsiders. I live in paradise, but have to force myself to appreciate that sometimes. "Making a living" is one of the biggest obstacles to "quality of life," and even locals sometimes don't have the opportunity to enjoy their home. A decade ago, I had realized I hadn't been to the beach in years.

(Having kids knocked sense into me. If I'm going to struggle to raise them here, they're going to know why we're here. Otherwise, we might as well be someplace else.)

Does that make you automatically the devil? Not to everyone. Are you automatically out for being white? Not to everyone. The harder you work to understand life here, the more folks will be understanding of your perspective. But we've seen it thousands of times before, and you're bound to get pushback. (Let's just say your views on Asian girls and their "accessibility" are also familiar, and similiarly naive. But that's a whole 'nother ball of wax.) Don't fight it. Listen to it.

You could do it, but it ain't easy. So at least you've taken the first step and stuck your neck out here. Good for that.

Now, you say you do IT management for a small company with about seven years experience. I'm in about the same boat, born and raised here, and I'd just about sell my left arm for $65k. Those salaries exist here, to be sure, and there are still a lot of overpaid IT directors I'm sure. But I'll tell you this -- that "low unemployment" you keep hearing about exists primarily at the minimum-wage end. There's a lot of pressure and competition from mid-level careers on up. People with "manager" in their title at one job still hold down a second job somewhere else in order to pay the mortgage.

As Kamuelaka notes, you're doing well for your field. Well, take any field, and knock it down 20 percent. That's about where Hawaii's at. Why? Because people are willing to work for less, given the competition.

So my first piece of advice? Find your job before you get on that plane.

Find a place to live, too.

You have $30K saved up, and that's great. If only all Hawaii dreamers had that in the bank. Honestly, you're ahead of the game right there.

But you're smart to not to want to burn that all up in a fool's errand. You could hop the next jet over, get a small Waikiki studio, and burn through your savings 'til you get established, but you don't have to. People do recruit from the mainland, and if you have the background you say you do, your chances could be worse. Yes, you could find a job in a month, but it could take six. So start your hunting there.

But spend that time doing more research, too. I'm glad you found HawaiiThreads.com, because you'll get more honest and varied answers here on your quest than just about anywhere else I know. You can buy books, you can find other Hawaii dreamers to cheer you on, but interacting with the people who are actually living, and not vacationing, here, is quite valuable.

[WindwardOahuRN]

Re: Was my Hawaii trip false? sheltered? naive?

Pzarquon said it all perfectly, IMHO.

[tutusue]

Re: Was my Hawaii trip false? sheltered? naive?

[...]Work two or three jobs to pay $1,800 rent on a small, old house way out of town, only dreaming of the day they can save up enough money to buy a $600,000 home.[...]

And that $600k probably gets them the same small, old house way out of town that they'd been renting!

[Miulang]

Re: Was my Hawaii trip false? sheltered? naive?

Welcome to HT, Mike:
What everyone else has stated here is true to some extent. How true it is for you would depend on how you react to what others think.

One thing that is not just opinion is this annual study of what people in Hawai'i earn. The latest report was issued last Thursday, and it indicates that while people in service industry (i.e., hospitality) make wages that exceed those of people working in comparable jobs elsewhere, professionals consistently make less (by about 20%) than their counterparts on the Mainland. So if you want to be a service technician, you probably won't have too much of a problem finding a job; but if you want a supervisory or higher position, you will have a rougher go at finding a job, and it will definitely pay less than a comparable job on the Mainland, unless you work for a large multinational company and can transfer to a comparable position in Hawai'i. Larger ocmpanies (like IBM) will transfer you and give you a cost of living allowance to offset any decreases in pay you might otherwise receive.

Miulang

[damontucker]

Re: Was my Hawaii trip false? sheltered? naive?

I've worked for the state now for 7 years... Even If I continue in my "Technical" position... I still won't be making 65,000 per year in 20 years at the current pay scale that the State has set.

It's not an IT position... however, IT professionals here in Hawaii seem to be a dime a dozen and they don't get paid what they should.

[tikiyaki]

Re: Was my Hawaii trip false? sheltered? naive?

mjj, I'm glad you made it over here from TikiCentral.com . As you can see, the folks here are really helpful with the "reality" of living in Hawaii.
It ain't vacation, and those 50's Waikiki Postcards and Shag paintings look great, but they're not real.
Take the people here's advice, they know what's up.

Don't be discouraged by it, learn and make educated decisions.
Like I told you over there, this is a very useful forum for finding out the real skinny.

Good Luck, and Aloha.

HT'ers...sorry, but I sent another "I wanna move to Hawaii" person here.
I think people with the dream are best served by getting the truth from you guys.

[tutusue]

Re: Was my Hawaii trip false? sheltered? naive?

Personally, I think PZ's post #7 above should be made part of the FAQ...the 'So ya wanna move to Hawaii' section!

And, no, I'm not being facetious as I, too, had the same dream many, many years ago. I made it come true and have never regretted it for even one second.

ETA: MJJ...as I see it, your major stumbling block will the the $65k job. The cost of living in so much of California is sky high that moving to Hawaii may not come as much of a financial shock to you.

The question becomes...Can you live and are you willing to live on less? If so, can you psychologically accept a lower income without becoming resentful? I'm going thru these same issues with my daughter right now. She's quite a bit older than you, grew up in Hawaii, attended college on the mainland and never came home because she found a career in SoCal. Twenty-one years later she's now homesick and wants to come back. She can afford to return but the big question I keep asking her is can her ego handle the cut in pay. She says yes! I've asked her to do a lot of soul searching. As much as I want her back I want even more for her to have all of her ducks in a row! Her passion is traveling. That will be impacted by her return. Only she can decide how much of a hit she's willing to take in that area before she starts feeling resentful.

Me? Hawaii was always my ultimate travel destination so I solved the back and forth expense by moving here!

[craigwatanabe]

Re: Was my Hawaii trip false? sheltered? naive?

I'm living my dream here in Hawaii. Stay out of congested Honoluu and off of Oahu for that matter if you want to live paradise. Yes gas prices are higher here on the Big Island but the quality of life is closer to Paradise as one could imagine. Very laid back lifestyle out here, no urban chaos, just real folks who live life one day at a time.

[damontucker]

Re: Was my Hawaii trip false? sheltered? naive?

I'm living my dream here in Hawaii. Stay out of congested Honoluu and off of Oahu for that matter if you want to live paradise. Yes gas prices are higher here on the Big Island but the quality of life is closer to Paradise as one could imagine. Very laid back lifestyle out here, no urban chaos, just real folks who live life one day at a time.

However, Not much jobs in the IT industry on the Big Island.

Not, nearly as many jobs at all that I feel worth taking a pay cut for! Otherwise I'd be there already!