Was my Hawaii trip false? sheltered? naive?

[MadAzza]

Re: Was my Hawaii trip false? sheltered? naive?

One thing's for sure: If you are not Asian/part-Asian (that is, if you are of largely European ancestry), and if bad things happen to you in Hawaii, people will tell you it's somehow your fault, that "life is what you make it," you must have provoked them and so on. This is a curious phenomenon that I haven't experienced elsewhere -- victims of crime being held responsible for causing the crime.

One late evening several years ago, after I had rid the park across from my house of some druggies, I was ganged up on by 30 or so of their friends, most of whom appeared to be teenagers and showed up a few minutes later. Part of the attack happened ON MY PROPERTY. When the police came, they chose to ignore my obvious head injury and instead told me that if I pressed charges, they would take ME to jail. I, a middle-aged, suburban woman in a "good" neighborhood -- never mind the pack of howling thugs standing around yelling "Fucking haole!" and other racist comments in full view/earshot of the police, who -- gosh it all! -- just happened to be of the same basic racial/ethnic makeup as my attackers.

The police decided to ignore all that, stood on my front step and told me this to my face -- that they would take ME to jail. I was calm, I wasn't using bad language and I had a head injury from where one young "local" male had hit me with a full can of soda. My neighbors, who witnessed the attack, verified my version of events. When I inquired as to the logic of the police officers' approach, they became aggressive and even more threatening.

I felt intimidated and afraid, and I haven't fully trusted the police in Hawaii since. And I'm not easy to intimidate. The one positive outcome was that it gave me an understanding, however slight, of what it must be like to be a black person in America, constantly hassled by non-black police officers.

By the way, I spent three years on Guam. If you're going to move "out here," I would recommend Hawaii.

[helen]

Re: Was my Hawaii trip false? sheltered? naive?

The police decided to ignore all that, stood on my front step and told me this to my face -- that they would take ME to jail.

Did they say why they would take you to jail?

[MadAzza]

Re: Was my Hawaii trip false? sheltered? naive?

It had something to do with the police not being able to tell "who did what" and it being a case of my word against theirs. Well, excuse me, look at my damn head! And it wasn't my word against theirs -- I had witnesses.

Racism, pure and simple.

[1stwahine]

Re: Was my Hawaii trip false? sheltered? naive?

It had something to do with the police not being able to tell "who did what" and it being a case of my word against theirs. Well, excuse me, look at my damn head! And it wasn't my word against theirs -- I had witnesses.

Racism, pure and simple.

Maddie, Did you file a complaint with the Police Commission? You had witnesses and injury. I'm sorry such ugliness happen to you.

Hugs

Auntie Lynn

[Miulang]

Re: Was my Hawaii trip false? sheltered? naive?

It had something to do with the police not being able to tell "who did what" and it being a case of my word against theirs. Well, excuse me, look at my damn head! And it wasn't my word against theirs -- I had witnesses.

Racism, pure and simple.

That's horrible, Maddie! But I can also think of a couple of other reasons why (besides racism) the cops might have threatened to take you in: 1) you "inconvenienced" them by forcing them to show up and do their jobs or 2) because you weren't in Waikiki, you probably weren't a tourist and therefore you were expected to "deal with" the situation yourself (as in getting some of your local "friends" to wreak revenge). I'm sure if this little incident happened to you in the middle of Waikiki, the cops would be a hell of a lot more diligent in their followthrough.

Miulang

[MadAzza]

Re: Was my Hawaii trip false? sheltered? naive?

Maddie, Did you file a complaint with the Police Commission? You had witnesses and injury. I'm sorry such ugliness happen to you.

Hugs

Auntie Lynn

Thanks, Auntie! No, I didn't want to incur more cop wrath upon me. They knew where I lived. I'm not *that* stupid! Stick your head out, get it cut off. No, thanks.

Anyway ... I do support HPD, and I still call the cops when I feel the need to report something. I have *good friends* who are cops. I try not to blame the whole dept. for my bad experience, but at the same time, it did affect me. I see things in a different way now, and I am more understanding of certain racial problems others experience. So it's not all bad!

But it does get my hackles up when people spout that old line about "life being what you make it" and "treat everyone with respect and you'll be fine." 'Cuz it just ain't true, not always. Besides, I refuse to treat thugs and scum with respect. Why reward bad behavior? (And ignoring it is almost as bad as rewarding it.)

[1stwahine]

Re: Was my Hawaii trip false? sheltered? naive?

Anyway ... I do support HPD, and I still call the cops when I feel the need to report something. I have *good friends* who are cops. I try not to blame the whole dept. for my bad experience, but at the same time, it did affect me. I see things in a different way now, and I am more understanding of certain racial problems others experience. So it's not all bad!

Maddie, you are an intellegent woman with a strong personality. I also support HPD and have nephews who are Officers. Soon my daughter will be one too. The problem still exist within HPD of Azzholes who continue to make HPD look bad. The ugliness of racial discrimination is present in our islands and I'm sorry it continues. As a mother and grandmother, I have taught my children to accept all no matter what color, race or religion a person is. I will continue to instill the same into my grandchildren.

Tonight, I cry for you Maddie. I wish my arms could go through my screen to give you a Big Honi Honi. We must go out one night. I still owe you a Birthday Night Out On the Town!

I Love You

Auntie Lynn

[tutusue]

Re: Was my Hawaii trip false? sheltered? naive?

Guys, I just want to make clear, I would not be looking for trouble at all, I am fully open to the culture, its just stories and articles like these that have me worried:

http://groups.google.com/group/alt.c...6fe72227c14615
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.c...d87208c82c18a9

and the other stories of road rage found on this site, etc.

That newsgroup is alt.culture.hawaii...the absolute cesspool of usenet. Ignore it. Really.

If ever there was a case FOR road rage, it was this past Sept. 5 when this incident occured. I'm sure there were a lot of angry people but my daughter mentioned more than once that the lack of road rage that she witnessed would've never happened in Cali. Road rage is universal, btw. I'd much rather drive in Hawaii than Cali. Honest.

[...]But it does get my hackles up when people spout that old line about "life being what you make it" and "treat everyone with respect and you'll be fine." 'Cuz it just ain't true, not always. Besides, I refuse to treat thugs and scum with respect. Why reward bad behavior? (And ignoring it is almost as bad as rewarding it.)

Wow, Maddie. What a horrible experience. Altho' not as bad, I, too, had a similar experience. I was stunned at the way the HPD handled it...or should I say, didn't handle it...all the way up to the chief of police.

I think your key words above are 'not always'. I strongly believe that one reaps as one sows but...nuthin's 100%. Ca-ca happens unfortunately.

[Buzzy]

Re: Was my Hawaii trip false? sheltered? naive?

This is an interesting thread, cause I'm interested in something similar. Not Oahu, but Puna, BI. And I'm a lot (a LOT) older, but instead of IT my field is law. I'm doing immigration law in Seattle/Tacoma now, but dream of farming in Hawaii, also doing law.

It's difficult to find much information about the immigration situation in Hawaii. Would there be any need for this service in Hilo? If I change fields, is there much need for any kind of law in Hilo? Dumb question, because human nature being what it is, there's always a need for lawyers. However, I'm more interested in what could actually be useful to people there, and if those needs are already amply supplied.

Also, I am perfectly willing to take a drastic cut in pay to live in Paradise. Seems to me the less money you have the less harm you can do to nature. Just a thought.

You folks are cranky but pretty wonderful. I live on an island full of cranky wonderful people now, so think I'd be at home there. I went for a work week (not vacation) to Hilo and Puna and could hardly force myself to leave.

Also, can anybody help me figure out how to start a string here.

Thank you all.

[WindwardOahuRN]

Re: Was my Hawaii trip false? sheltered? naive?

But it does get my hackles up when people spout that old line about "life being what you make it" and "treat everyone with respect and you'll be fine." 'Cuz it just ain't true, not always. Besides, I refuse to treat thugs and scum with respect. Why reward bad behavior? (And ignoring it is almost as bad as rewarding it.)

"Give aloha and you'll get aloha."

Pass the Zofran, please.

As per the ethics of my profession I am bound to provide care for all who are entrusted to my care.

Doesn't render me deaf or blind, however.

Pffffft. Spare me the stink-eye, middle-finger displays from the glowering members of the boldly-tattoooed "Sons of Samoa" as I render care to one of their esteemed members to the best of my ability.

The "give/get" thing is wishful thinking, sometimes. Always proper for a first attempt and always worth a try, but sometimes just like spitting in the wind.

I do my twelve-hour shift and go back home. No delusional thinking here.

[damontucker]

Re: Was my Hawaii trip false? sheltered? naive?

we need to realize that the cops here live by discretion and not by law.

Nuff said.

[1stwahine]

Re: Was my Hawaii trip false? sheltered? naive?

we need to realize that the cops here live by discretion and not by law.

Nuff said.

Manoa, No one is Above The Law! They may think they are...but someday they will be behind bars themselves. For your information...the majority of the Men and Women in Blue who took the Oath upon becoming HPD Officers continue to uphold it with Pride and Dignity!

Auntie Lynn

[Jonah K]

Re: Was my Hawaii trip false? sheltered? naive?

This is an interesting thread, cause I'm interested in something similar. Not Oahu, but Puna, BI. And I'm a lot (a LOT) older, but instead of IT my field is law. I'm doing immigration law in Seattle/Tacoma now, but dream of farming in Hawaii, also doing law.

It's difficult to find much information about the immigration situation in Hawaii. Would there be any need for this service in Hilo? If I change fields, is there much need for any kind of law in Hilo? Dumb question, because human nature being what it is, there's always a need for lawyers. However, I'm more interested in what could actually be useful to people there, and if those needs are already amply supplied.

Puna probably has a greater need for lawyers specializing in criminal law than it does for those specializing in anything else. Of course, you can always set up a table at the Maku'u Farmers' Market like Cynthia Linet and offer 20 minutes worth of legal advice for $20.
http://www.westhawaiitoday.com/artic...al/local04.txt

Also, can anybody help me figure out how to start a string here.

P.S. There's usually a "New Thread" button at the top and/or bottom of the forum...

Cheers,

Jonah K

[nachodaddy]

Re: Was my Hawaii trip false? sheltered? naive?

This is an interesting thread, cause I'm interested in something similar. Not Oahu, but Puna, BI. And I'm a lot (a LOT) older, but instead of IT my field is law. I'm doing immigration law in Seattle/Tacoma now, but dream of farming in Hawaii, also doing law.

It's difficult to find much information about the immigration situation in Hawaii. Would there be any need for this service in Hilo? If I change fields, is there much need for any kind of law in Hilo? Dumb question, because human nature being what it is, there's always a need for lawyers. However, I'm more interested in what could actually be useful to people there, and if those needs are already amply supplied.

Also, I am perfectly willing to take a drastic cut in pay to live in Paradise. Seems to me the less money you have the less harm you can do to nature. Just a thought.

You folks are cranky but pretty wonderful. I live on an island full of cranky wonderful people now, so think I'd be at home there. I went for a work week (not vacation) to Hilo and Puna and could hardly force myself to leave.

Also, can anybody help me figure out how to start a string here.

Thank you all.

Welcome to HT, Buzz. I get on Vashon now and then, mostly to check out the nurseries. If you are growing stuff on Vashon, you will have a ball in Puna.

Immigration Law???? hmm......would think that the major port of entry is Honolulu. Ag crops on the Big Island may have a need for your services, seasonal stuff. Coffee on the Kona side.

Also, someplace on here, in a thread I cannot find cuz the search function is not working for me, someone placed some stats on the state of the population (influx, folks leaving, where are they coming from, etc). That would give you some numbers and I suspect a check of the local phone book would give you the numbers of lawyers. Then you compare the two. Kinda a "what the market will bear" approach.

Also check out the Star Bulletin at http://starbulletin.com/ and search for "immigration" "INS", "farm workers", stuff like that for concerns in the press.

Good luck!!!!!

[pzarquon]

Re: Was my Hawaii trip false? sheltered? naive?

Can you live and are you willing to live on less? If so, can you psychologically accept a lower income without becoming resentful?

Given the recent discussion about making less in Hawaii, I thought this article in yesterday's Honolulu Advertiser was worth mentioning.

Honolulu wages 3% more than annual wages

That kind of headline is what gives some folks false hopes in their plans of relocating. Actually reading the article reveals that a lot of Hawaii's higher than average wages are in specific fields (hotel clerks 77 percent higher, nurses 27 percent higher, electricians 46 percent higher), and that we also have lower than average wages in others (teachers 7 percent lower, accountants 11 percent lower, and programmers 14 percent lower).

And for whatever reason, the Advertiser puts the real counterpoint at the end (or deep on an inside page in the print edition):

Byron Gangnes, associate professor of economics at the University of Hawai'i, said the so-called pay premium often does not make up for the high living costs in Hawai'i, which exceeds costs on the Mainland by 30 percent to 40 percent.

In other words, even if your pay in Hawaii was 30 to 40 percent higher than the national average -- and I think we all know that's pretty unlikely -- at best you'll make ends meet about as well as you would in the average Mainland city.

Like Tutusue said, you have to take a good look at your expectations and how you measure quality of life. Some folks might be happy with a dusty, hot, overpriced studio apartment so long as it's a block from the beach, some folks might not.