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Should Civil Unions Be Legalized?

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  • Should Civil Unions Be Legalized?

    H.B. 444, a bill making its way through the Hawai‘i State House of Representatives, will extend the same rights, benefits, protections, and responsibilities of spouses in a marriage to partners in a civil union. A civil union is currently defined as a same-sex couple. After a full day of testimony by a standing-room only crowd, lawmakers are burning the midnight oil as they contemplate the decision to pull the bill from the committee, where members are deadlocked 3-3. Thoughts?
    38
    Yes, civil union partners should get full rights.
    84.21%
    32
    No, civil unions should not be given marriage benefits.
    15.79%
    6

    The poll is expired.


    We can’t be so fixated on our desire to preserve the rights of ordinary Americans.

    — U.S. President Bill Clinton
    USA TODAY, page 2A
    11 March 1993

  • #2
    Re: Should Civil Unions Be Legalized?

    I wish you would have included the choice "HELL YES!" because that's the one I would rather choose.
    "Democracy is the only system that persists in asking the powers that be whether they are the powers that ought to be."
    – Sydney J. Harris

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Should Civil Unions Be Legalized?

      Hence my RepubliCRAT views.

      We need civil unions and we need prayer in schools.
      FutureNewsNetwork.com
      Energy answers are already here.

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Should Civil Unions Be Legalized?

        I'd like to know more about all the possible ramifications of this particular bill before voting.

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Should Civil Unions Be Legalized?

          Originally posted by GeckoGeek View Post
          I'd like to know more about all the possible ramifications of this particular bill before voting.
          It’s very difficult to cut through the rhetoric and get the truth. Civil unions bill proponents contend that all they seek is equality for gay and lesbian couples under the law. But critics contend that this bill opens up a Pandora’s box. For one thing, will the gay community use this bill to sue churches, forcing them to conduct gay marriages? What about post-operation transgendered couples? Father-daughter couples? Cousin-cousin couples? Will the passage of this bill provide any type of loophole that will enbolden organizations like NAMBLA or other pro-pedophile groups to fight laws currently restricting their activities? And I’m sure there will come a day when animal rights activists insist that there are certain animals intelligent enough to make their own decisions. Will we then have bestiality couples?

          I agree that this bill creates more questions then it actually addresses.

          We can’t be so fixated on our desire to preserve the rights of ordinary Americans.

          — U.S. President Bill Clinton
          USA TODAY, page 2A
          11 March 1993

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Should Civil Unions Be Legalized?

            Yes - but if they are the same as marriages, call 'em "marriages." "Separate but equal" is a 20th Century concept.

            As for the ramifications GG is asking about, without knowing the specifics of Hawai`i's version, similar laws in other states have permitted same-sex partners to have access to information and make decisions on behalf of their partners, such as making medical decisions on their behalf, or being entitled to a spouse's portion of an estate upon the death of one partner - just as with opposite-sex couples.

            I don't know of any negatives from such legislation, other than it going against the personal and religious beliefs of some people. The critical arguments that TuNnL has shared are similar to the long-outmoded anti-marijuana criticisms: that it will invariably lead to "harder" drugs. Same-sex marriages are the next step on the path that eliminated old miscegenation laws, preventing mixed-race couples. How many people would still argue that the removal of those laws did damage to the sanctity of marriage?
            Last edited by Leo Lakio; February 25, 2009, 10:29 AM.

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Should Civil Unions Be Legalized?

              This link will take you to a PDF document of House Bill 444.

              It's 10 pages long and so far I only read the first two pages and glanced at pages 3 and 4 but some of the stuff that TuNuL brought up is addressed in those 4 pages.

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Should Civil Unions Be Legalized?

                If I had to vote, for real, I'd say no, as I have on this poll.
                But I wouldn't protest against it, as my church has seen fit to do.
                It's not going to hurt anyone to any large degree.
                I'd prefer the status quo, thinking it is a special bond for the two seperate sexes, and they deserve the perks that come with it. Those that wish to co-habitate are free to, but I'd have to hear from those in support much more to find a reason to change, and hope to from those here that do.
                https://www.facebook.com/Bobby-Ingan...5875444640256/

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Should Civil Unions Be Legalized?

                  Originally posted by Leo Lakio View Post
                  I don't know of any negatives from such legislation, other than it going against the personal and religious beliefs of some people.
                  I would say that is a major negative, considering Hawai‘i passed a constitutional amendment authorizing the Legislature to define marriage as between one man and one woman in 1998. Does this bill then fly in the face of the nearly 70 percent of voters who thought they this issue had been resolved in their favor? Certainly, that seems to be the sentiment of the more than 2,000 residents who showed up at the Capitol to protest this legislation.

                  We can’t be so fixated on our desire to preserve the rights of ordinary Americans.

                  — U.S. President Bill Clinton
                  USA TODAY, page 2A
                  11 March 1993

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Should Civil Unions Be Legalized?

                    A lot of the churches rallied together to try and shut this bill down, even the big ones like New Hope and Grace Bible. I was in a New Hope small group and was asked to participate in this rally. I said no, and that I was all for Civil Unions. You could have heard a pin drop in that small group.

                    As a Christian, I'm completely opposed to same sex marriages. "Marriage" is a biblical ceremony where two people of the opposite sex join together in front of witnesses and God, to declare a lifelong commitment to each other. The book of Leviticus tells us that God does not approve of same sex relationships, so a "Marriage" of two people of the same sex is a contradition to what the bible teaches.

                    However, two people of the same sex living together as a family unit, some with children, deserve all the rights and securities of a traditionally married couple. Civil Unions will do that. Most of the arguements from church members tend to have trouble separating a Civil Union and a Marriage, so they round it off to it just being a marriage. I think that's wrong. It also opened up a big hailstorm of accusing fingers on the gay lifestyle. Someone needs to remind them that not even Jesus judged people. That responsibility lies in the hands of God.

                    My plea to the churches would be to read the facts and approach HB444 for what it is, A Civil Union and NOT a Marriage. It's not a bill to condone the gay lifestyle, but a bill to give security to the gay families that already exist.

                    Again, YES to Civil Unions
                    NO to same sex marriages.

                    DD
                    www.myspace.com/chrislunainstrumentals

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Should Civil Unions Be Legalized?

                      Originally posted by TuNnL View Post
                      considering Hawai‘i passed a constitutional amendment authorizing the Legislature to define marriage as between one man and one woman in 1998.
                      Speaking of which did the Legislature ever pass any laws concerning that issue?

                      Does this bill then fly in the face of the nearly 70 percent of voters who thought they this issue had been resolved in their favor?
                      I don't think so. You still have marriage between one man and one woman, that is not going to change.

                      As far as same sex couples who decided to stay together, they are going to be together regradless if this bill becomes law or not.

                      What this bill seems to do is make some ground rules on what makes a civil union, who can in it and one of those rules is if you are currently married, you can't be in a civil union.
                      Last edited by helen; February 25, 2009, 11:24 AM.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Should Civil Unions Be Legalized?

                        Churches that go into politics violate their tax exemption, they should be taxed the same as the people they are trying to oppress. It isn't any of their business. A church is a voluntary association. If somebody choses to associate, they can be bound by the rules. If they chose not to associate, they have specifically chosen not to be bound by those rules. It is not the business of the government to enforce religious doctrine against non believers.

                        Islam is the fastest growing sect. Islam requires subject peoples to live under Shira Law. No doubt WHEN (thats the way the math works) WHEN Islam becomes the dominant political religion and Christians of various denominations are required to live under Shira Law, there will be many eloquent but futile speeches about freedom of religion and freedom of association, etc.

                        Our legal system promises "Equal Protection Under The Law". The question for us is, should that be just yet another empty slogan (new! new! new! It cleans your cat box while it whitens your teeth!!!) or something that actually has some legal meaning.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Should Civil Unions Be Legalized?

                          Originally posted by helen View Post
                          This link will take you to a PDF document of House Bill 444.

                          It's 10 pages long and so far I only read the first two pages and glanced at pages 3 and 4 but some of the stuff that TuNuL brought up is addressed in those 4 pages.
                          I’m not an attorney, but just reading through some of the language on just the second page of this bill, to me, sets of warning bells. Specifically, this clause:

                          A civil union shall be void between the following persons:

                          (1) A woman and her mother, grandmother, daughter, granddaughter, sister, brother's daughter, sister's daughter, father's sister, or mother's sister; or

                          (2) A man and his father, grandfather, son, grandson, brother, brother's son, sister's son, father's brother, or mother's brother.
                          I see potential for a lawsuit right here. So let’s say hypothetically, a bisexual woman marries a man, mostly out of pressure from her parents and society. The man already has a daughter from a previous marriage. The woman falls in love with her stepdaughter, who is 18 years old by the time the woman and the man get divorced. So if I am reading this correctly, the two women cannot marry based on the provision in this bill? Discrimination! What a hateful bill!

                          We can’t be so fixated on our desire to preserve the rights of ordinary Americans.

                          — U.S. President Bill Clinton
                          USA TODAY, page 2A
                          11 March 1993

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Should Civil Unions Be Legalized?

                            Originally posted by TuNnL View Post
                            So let’s say hypothetically, a bisexual woman marries a man, mostly out of pressure from her parents and society. The man already has a daughter from a previous marriage. The woman falls in love with her stepdaughter, who is 18 years old by the time the woman and the man get divorced. So if I am reading this correctly, the two women cannot marry based on the provision in this bill? Discrimination! What a hateful bill!
                            The law doesn't preclude the woman from entering a civil union with her step-daughter. The step-daugher isn't her biological daughter. And she might not even have gone through the adoption process.

                            To claim that HB 444 is the first step down a slippery slope that will open the doors to pedophiles is ludicrous. Gay people don't prey on innocent children -- Some of the worst crimes were committed by straight folks who happened to be mentally unstable.

                            Gay parents don't end up with gay kids. If anything their kids end up much more broad-minded. However, narrow-minded parents DO end up with narrow-minded kids!

                            And there's nothing to fear from gay people. They live private lives like many of us. You don't see gay people going door to door with pamphlets trying to convert people to their lifestyle.

                            I have friends and relatives who are very good citizens and who happen to be gay. They deserve the same rights and privileges as other straight folk. I don't live their lifestyle and it's none of my business to judge them. They didn't choose to be gay. They just are. And I'm not about to discriminate against them for it.

                            If I had to vote on the issue, I'd vote "yes".

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Should Civil Unions Be Legalized?

                              A very good friend of mine spent 20 some yrs in a relationship with his partner. When the partner became terminally ill, he (my friend) was informed that he had no legal say in his partner's treatment. The partner wished to be DNR and the "family" decided no. This after the family had turned their back on him for being gay. To make matters worse, there was no will. That meant that my friend also had no legal right to any of his partner's estate. These instances in of themselves are enough reason to legalize civil unions.

                              This is a man who dedicated his life to the military in a time when "Don't ask, don't tell" was still a pipe dream. He kept his life ( & partner) in secrecy for fear the military would find out. (I know, we are discussing this on another thread).

                              The death of his partner was the last straw for him. He is now one of NY's leading advocates for gay rights and is also one of the leading advocates for fair treatment of kids in school who are traumatized due to the mere perception they might be gay. This is a huge problem in our country. Think of all the kids that get picked on - what is the main reason? Because they are percieved as being weak, or gay - whether they are or not. The kids who are doing the picking on are getting it from somewhere. If they hear their parents talking about how we cannot have civil unions because god told them being gay was abnormal or whatever, what kind of message are they sending their kids?

                              We pride ourselves on being a nation that is a melting pot where all can find freedom to be who they are. Yet, there are those who wish to supress a segment of the population because they are percieved to be different. Very sad........
                              Last edited by acousticlady; February 26, 2009, 04:58 PM. Reason: fixed a sentence.

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