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How about reinstating capital punishment in Hawaii?

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  • For Leo and Kalalau.

    Mostly for Leo.
    http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_famou...#39;s_Syndrome

    You might note that Al Gore is listed. This is not what I was searching for, but it should do for now, and I am still looking. A lot of the information is buried with the Gore bashing on global warming, but now I am beginning to remember seeing an article either in a magazine or newspaper which said that Al Gore may have been having mental problems.

    Kalalau, I am glad you remember Al Gore's beard after the 2000 election. At the time, he was facing a very close election loss to Bush. After the courts more or less forced him to concede, he was understandably depressed.
    Nobu

    Hi Kalalau,
    The 9-11 attack was planned years in advance. In fact, it was possibly on the drawing boards before Clinton's defeat of Bush Sr. I really doubt that any president would have avoided the attack, including Reagan, who was the biggest HAWK of a president.

    All of this is off topic, but I am interested in your opinion on this?
    Who do you think was the worst president of the USA from Truman to present???? Please don't post your answer without thinking about it in debt, looking at all of the presidents, including the very short term Gerald Ford.

    I will give you my answer after you.
    Nobu

    Originally posted by D'Alani View Post
    Wow I usually just read and enjoy the discussions but I need to ask, of what significance is a beard to someone's mental capacity?...or am I reading too much into that statement?
    Hi D'Alani,
    Actually nothing. However, in Gore's case, after losing the election, many felt he really let himself go, by gaining a lot of weight, and growing a beard. This might have played a part in the breakup of his marriage of 40 years to "Tipper".

    Howard Hughs, before he died, was seen in Las Vegas without shoes, with his toenails uncut, and his hair uncombed. Would you not think that is strange for one of the wealthiest men on this planet?

    Maybe not???
    Dunno...
    Nobu

    Hi Kalalau and Leo,
    In 1941, our intelligence reports believed that Japan was planning the Pearl Harbor attack. And the US was surprised by the sneak attack.

    So, a memo or report on the President's desk saying that al Qaida was going to make a terrorist attack on the US, my have been taken just is lightly as Pearl Harbor was in 1941.
    Nobu

    Comment


    • Re: How about reinstating capital punishment in Hawaii?

      Nobu, I'm surprised that you would recklessly describe Asperger's Syndrome as "serious mental health problems." You really need to do some more research into AS, as well as autism and other functional conditions.

      Note also that your source citation says "Most of the people on the following list are speculated to have Asperger's Syndrome, rather than being confirmed cases of Asperger's Syndrome." But it fails to say who is doing the speculation, and what, if any, appropriate medical backgrounds they have. For all we know, they are listed because somebody on a message board somewhere said "I seem to remember that this person had serious mental health problems, maybe even Asperger's Syndrome" - and, BOOM! It gets circulated wider and wider and eventually accepted as "fact." Hey - if it's on the interwebs, it must be true, yeah?

      I think you need to get out of the amateur shrink profession.

      Comment


      • Re: How about reinstating capital punishment in Hawaii?

        Leo> Nobu, I'm surprised that you would recklessly describe Asperger's Syndrome as "serious mental health problems." You really need to do some more research into AS, as well as autism and other functional conditions.

        Hi Leo,
        Could you find where I claimed that Asperger's Syndrome was a serious mentel health problem? What I posted was just for starters. I am still looking for the 10 year old information.

        In the years 1999 through 2000, I had a serious heart problem that required surgery. Since the surgery, my memory hasn't been as good as it was, but it is still pretty good for my age.

        Gore did have some mental health problems, and I don't know what scale you are using for the word "serious"... Maybe my scale is different from yours.

        But thanks anyway, now I am more motivated to look for that mental problems that Gore had. Of course, now if I find it, I now know what your reply will be... That it really wasn't "serious"... Right????
        Nobu

        Comment


        • Re: How about reinstating capital punishment in Hawaii?

          OK Leo,
          I found something, and I know it isn't going to be good enough for you, but it will have to do.
          http://mediamatters.org/research/200405280001

          Now, I can guess what you are going to post in rebuttal which will be: "Where is the doctor's report?" Even IF there was a doctor's report, it wouldn't be made public correct????

          Now, I go along with all of the amateur shrinks on this site. I agree with their findings.

          Again, I happen to agree with Gore on global warming, but he is so unpopular with the conservatives, that I wish it was someone else who represented the problem.

          I think this is the extent of my searching on the Gore mental health subject. It looks like what I saw back when the comments were made, were opinions similar to mine, that Gore had serious mental health problems after losing the 2000 presidential election.

          Thanks again for giving me the motivation to find and use a search engine that worked.
          Nobu

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Nobunaga View Post
            Could you find where I claimed that Asperger's Syndrome was a serious mentel health problem?
            In the first paragraph of this post of yours, you used those exact words.

            Then in this post of yours, you offered up a list of people who might possibly be diagnosed with Asperger's to reinforce your claim.

            I think you are right in assessing the diminishing quality of your own memory, however, since you can't even recall what you posted earlier.

            Originally posted by Nobunaga View Post
            OK Leo,
            I found something, and I know it isn't going to be good enough for you, but it will have to do.
            http://mediamatters.org/research/200405280001
            My god, you ARE serious, aren't you? You are presenting the diagnoses of conservative pundits as medical fact to defend your argument?!?!?

            You are truly lost in a land of fantasy, sir. I can't be your guide out of a hole so deep.

            Comment


            • Re: How about reinstating capital punishment in Hawaii?

              Originally posted by Leo Lakio View Post
              I think you need to get out of the amateur shrink profession.
              Leo, according to my daughter, who is hardly an amateur shrink, EVERYONE, including you and I and she, has "mental health issues." She says it is a CONTINUUM from minor to severe. It only becomes a "serious mental health issue" when it prevents someone from operating effectively in day to day life with a minimum of stress. Even people with "minor" mental health issuses can be "serious" if they cannot function properly in life. I have a relative on my wife's side with severe mental health issues, but they are able to function more or less normally, 90% of the time and then it becomes serious. Diagnosis and treatment of minor mental health issues is more difficult than diagnosis and treatment of severe mental health issues.

              The Mental Health profession is very technical and complicated and to be a certified doctor requires as much education and training as an MD and years of experience to reach the highest levels of competence. Too many people look at the profession as "reading tea leaves", and they think they can do that too. Nothing could be further from the truth. It is better not to debate with these people and leave them in their own little dream world to deal with their own mental health issues.

              K'den. Nuf said.
              Peace, Love, and Local Grindz

              People who form FIRM opinions with so little knowledge only pretend to be open-minded. They select their facts like food from a buffet. David R. Dow

              Comment


              • Re: How about reinstating capital punishment in Hawaii?

                Let's focus each post on a given idea's relevance to capital punishment and the death penalty, which is where this previously coherent thread started. If you want to stray into discussions of Nazis, 9-11, and Al Gore's beard, there are well-trodden threads for each. (Okay, maybe not the beard.) Thanks.

                Comment


                • Re: How about reinstating capital punishment in Hawaii?

                  Originally posted by admin View Post
                  Let's focus each post on a given idea's relevance to capital punishment and the death penalty, which is where this previously coherent thread started. If you want to stray into discussions of Nazis, 9-11, and Al Gore's beard, there are well-trodden threads for each. (Okay, maybe not the beard.) Thanks.
                  Good idea.
                  Thanks... I think we all need to be reminded to try to stay on topic, but a discussion like this can, and will tend to drift a little. This time, it is a lot.

                  Comment


                  • Re: How about reinstating capital punishment in Hawaii?

                    Originally posted by Leo Lakio View Post
                    In the first paragraph of this post of yours, you used those exact words.

                    Then in this post of yours, you offered up a list of people who might possibly be diagnosed with Asperger's to reinforce your claim.

                    I think you are right in assessing the diminishing quality of your own memory, however, since you can't even recall what you posted earlier.

                    My god, you ARE serious, aren't you? You are presenting the diagnoses of conservative pundits as medical fact to defend your argument?!?!?

                    You are truly lost in a land of fantasy, sir. I can't be your guide out of a hole so deep.
                    Ummm Leo,
                    To me, anyone running for President, who has an ailment, has a major ailment. In the case of a mental health problem, if anyone with a mental health problem became our president, it is a serious mental health problem.

                    Being that Gore in many opinions had mental health problems. I really don't think it was a minor thing. It might have been to you, but then we are all entitled to our own opinions. Maybe, to you, I made a mountain out of a molehill, but to me, I did not.
                    Nobu

                    Comment


                    • Re: How about reinstating capital punishment in Hawaii?

                      Originally posted by matapule View Post
                      Leo, according to my daughter, who is hardly an amateur shrink, EVERYONE, including you and I and she, has "mental health issues." She says it is a CONTINUUM from minor to severe. It only becomes a "serious mental health issue" when it prevents someone from operating effectively in day to day life with a minimum of stress. Even people with "minor" mental health issuses can be "serious" if they cannot function properly in life. I have a relative on my wife's side with severe mental health issues, but they are able to function more or less normally, 90% of the time and then it becomes serious. Diagnosis and treatment of minor mental health issues is more difficult than diagnosis and treatment of severe mental health issues.

                      The Mental Health profession is very technical and complicated and to be a certified doctor requires as much education and training as an MD and years of experience to reach the highest levels of competence. Too many people look at the profession as "reading tea leaves", and they think they can do that too. Nothing could be further from the truth. It is better not to debate with these people and leave them in their own little dream world to deal with their own mental health issues.

                      K'den. Nuf said.
                      I agree with that. If you look at Dr Hare's checklist for sociopaths, of the 20 symptoms, I don't think anyone is exempt from having one or two of those symptoms. It is just that some have more than 10 of those symptoms.

                      Your daughter is an intelligent person.

                      Comment


                      • Re: How about reinstating capital punishment in Hawaii?

                        Nothing more in this post about beards or mental health or armchair psychology; actually staying on topic ---


                        The PBS series "Frontline" will be airing a program next week about the 2004 execution of Cameron Todd Willingham in Texas, and the possibility he - and others - were wrongly executed.

                        The show is titled "Death By Fire," and it airs on most PBS stations Tuesday night, October 19. (I believe PBS Hawai`i will air it at 9 pm that night, with repeats the next morning at 1 am, and again Friday 10/22 at 11 pm.)

                        The "Frontline: Death By Fire" website can be found here.

                        Comment


                        • Re: How about reinstating capital punishment in Hawaii?

                          Hi Leo,
                          When you have a murder by arson, it is very difficult to prove, so if there was a retrial, it is possible that the new trial could have ended in an acquittal.

                          However, it is given that neither we, nor the people who wrote the article sat on the jury that convicted Willingham. The jury saw all of the evidence and heard all of the testimony, then made their decision or verdict that Willingham was indeed guilty beyond a reasonable doubt. This means that all 12 jurors did not believe Willingham, and believed the testimony and evidence that convicted him.

                          In other words, I would say that Willingham was most likely guilty, and in spite of his guilt, if given a new trial, he might have been acquitted. You must also remember that Willingham went through about 10 years of appeals. This means that all of the procedures in the trial were correct, and innocence or possible innocence, was not proven.

                          So, was Willingham innocent? I would say that it is remotely possible at best, but weighing everything out, I would say that he was most likely guilty.

                          Nobu

                          Comment


                          • Re: How about reinstating capital punishment in Hawaii?

                            When bush was gov of Texas he and Alberto Gonzalez, AG of Texas and later of the US, used to get yucks laughing at clemency pleas from condemned prisoners. Now even if you 'Like' the death penalty, you should take it seriously enough to not find pleas for life amusing. That human disconnect is really what sets apart murderous tyrants who are fine slaughtering a million Poles or a million Kulaks or a million Iraqis from the rest of the human race. They wouldn't happen in history if there weren't loyal followers to give them the political power to do their evil. Read about the KGB executions, the guy in the basement with the leather apron on to keep blood and brain matter from soiling his clothing. Just a job. Go to work. What did you do today, honey, oh I shot 50 revisionists and 75 Trotskyites. Oh thats nice. How can people do these things? Just following orders. Somebody's got to do it? You really don't want to give the State the power to execute people, they so often get carried away with it, they develop a real taste for blood, and once you've started it, its very hard to stop. Play it safe. Keep the power of death out of the hands of politicians.

                            Comment


                            • Re: How about reinstating capital punishment in Hawaii?

                              Hi Kalalau,
                              Actually the governor of the state does not have the power of death. Only the courts can give a death sentence and order an execution. The governor's only power is life. He can stop an execution, or commute a death sentence to a lesser sentence or he can pardon the convicted.

                              When it comes to the other politicians, they can allow the courts to distribute death sentences, but they cannot order it. Mandatory death sentences for all crimess have been ruled unconstitutional.

                              So, the power of death is not given to the politicians. The power of death is given to the courts. It is common sense, to rid society of the worst criminals, and it makes no sense at all to keep them alive.
                              Nobu

                              Comment


                              • Re: How about reinstating capital punishment in Hawaii?

                                The death penalty has been around in America since its inception (minus a few lapses here and there). With the current system in place, I find it extremely unlikely (and laughable that it's even brought up) that a state executioner is going to go off and slaughter millions of people in the same manner.

                                Punishment of an individual after a criminal conviction is nowhere near the same as a mass genocide. Good gracious.

                                Comment

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