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  • #61
    Re: Hawaii Superferry - Chapter 7

    Originally posted by Konaguy View Post
    Another concerning aspect of Judge Cardoza voiding that agreement is possibility that this may open the door for lawsuits against the State of Hawaii. According to John Van Dyke’s opinion here,the state carefully negotiated an agreement that protected them from liability. But now since that agreement has been voided,in my layman’s opinion, it exposes the state of Hawaii to some major lawsuits from HSF and their investors.

    http://www.tdn.com/articles/2007/09/...ews/news07.txt
    I thought the operating agreement with the State included a clause that HSF couldn't sue the State if the reason why it couldn't operate was for environmental reasons? I've seen that mentioned in several places now. Also, I think with the injunction, the PUC's certificate of conveyance may be void too, because one of the stipulations is that all State and Federal environmental laws are observed. So I think HSF may be back at square one.

    Miulang
    "Americans believe in three freedoms. Freedom of speech; freedom of religion; and the freedom to deny the other two to folks they don`t like.” --Mark Twain

    Comment


    • #62
      Re: Hawaii Superferry - Chapter 7

      Originally posted by Miulang View Post
      I thought the operating agreement with the State included a clause that HSF couldn't sue the State if the reason why it couldn't operate was for environmental reasons? I've seen that mentioned in several places now.
      So, basically, as a partner with the State, you can't sue the State if the State says that you're operating outside of State compliance?

      Sounds like ample grounds for appeal based on conflict of interest; the State having superior knowledge.

      In the private sector, this could be considered, "Bait-&-switch".

      So, contractual or not, the state had superior knowledge and was in a superior position to affect resources and administration measures that directly affect the Superferry.
      Last edited by woodman; October 9, 2007, 07:07 PM.

      Comment


      • #63
        Re: Hawaii Superferry - Chapter 7

        Originally posted by TuNnL View Post
        If visitors are laying claims to rocks of native cultural value
        Foolish malihini. Don't they know bad things will befall them, if they take rocks home from Hawai`i?

        Comment


        • #64
          Re: Hawaii Superferry - Chapter 7

          Below is a e-mail I sent to Governor Lingle and the legislture supporting a special session to help the HSF.

          Aloha,

          I strongly urge the legislature to have a special session to deal with the Hawaii Superferry debacle. It will be a huge black eye for Hawaii is HSF is forced close up shop and leave Hawaii because of Judge Cardoza’s decision today.

          Hawaii’s business climate is already very poor. With HSF being forced to leave Hawaii,it will make things worse. Future potential investors will think twice before investing money here.

          What is even worse is the fact taxpayers will be on the hook to pay for the 40 million in improvements to our harbors and the 140 million in MADRAD loans given to the Hawaii Superferry.

          Compounding the damage even more is the fact Judge Cardoza voided the HSF’s operating agreement with the Hawaii Department of Transportation. In my layman’s opinion since this agreement has been voided, it exposes the State of Hawaii to lawsuits from the HSF and their investors.

          So I strongly reiterate, please have a special session of the legislature, which will allow HSF to operate while a environmental assessment is being done.

          Best Regards,
          Aaron Stene
          Check out my blog on Kona issues :
          The Kona Blog

          Comment


          • #65
            Re: Hawaii Superferry - Chapter 7

            Hmmm....the HSF website was accepting reservations for Maui starting Sat. Oct. 13 yesterday. Now if you go to the website, the earliest date you can buy tickets for is Fri. Oct. 26. Wishful thinking on their part that the Legislature can get its act together and actually have a special session by then? And the latest news release on that website is from Sept. 14.

            Miulang
            "Americans believe in three freedoms. Freedom of speech; freedom of religion; and the freedom to deny the other two to folks they don`t like.” --Mark Twain

            Comment


            • #66
              Re: Hawaii Superferry - Chapter 7

              Originally posted by Konaguy View Post
              I strongly urge the legislature to have a special session to deal with the Hawaii Superferry debacle.
              Are you suggesting that the state legislature reconvene to manipulate the system to undermine a decisions reached by the state judiciary?

              Originally posted by Konaguy View Post
              Hawaii’s business climate is already very poor. With HSF being forced to leave Hawaii,it will make things worse. Future potential investors will think twice before investing money here.

              What is even worse is the fact taxpayers will be on the hook to pay for the 40 million in improvements to our harbors and the 140 million in MADRAD loans given to the Hawaii Superferry.
              Those taxpayers will still be on the hook, even if the ferry stays and fails.

              Originally posted by Konaguy View Post
              Compounding the damage even more is the fact Judge Cardoza voided the HSF’s operating agreement with the Hawaii Department of Transportation. In my layman’s opinion since this agreement has been voided, it exposes the State of Hawaii to lawsuits from the HSF and their investors.
              I have not read his decision. I would like to.

              Do you have a copy his remarks so we can explore the reason behind this decision?

              Comment


              • #67
                Re: Hawaii Superferry - Chapter 7

                Originally posted by woodman View Post
                Are you suggesting that the state legislature reconvene to manipulate the system to undermine a decisions reached by the state judiciary?



                Those taxpayers will still be on the hook, even if the ferry stays and fails.



                I have not read his decision. I would like to.

                Do you have a copy his remarks so we can explore the reason behind this decision?
                The printed transcript of today's decision isn't available yet, but if you go to www.akaku.org, you can hear the closing statements directly from Judge Cardoza.


                Miulang
                "Americans believe in three freedoms. Freedom of speech; freedom of religion; and the freedom to deny the other two to folks they don`t like.” --Mark Twain

                Comment


                • #68
                  Re: Hawaii Superferry - Chapter 7

                  Does anyone here find it to be flip-flopping on Cardoza's behalf? In 2005, didn't he agree with the State that a waiver is justifiable? And now, because the Supreme Court threw its weight in the other direction, he pulls a 180 himself? It's not like there's any groundbreaking new evidence thrown into the courtroom.

                  Either way, the damage has been done for all parties. This is straight up a lose-lose situation for everyone.

                  Comment


                  • #69
                    Re: Hawaii Superferry - Chapter 7

                    Originally posted by Miulang View Post
                    And I think the Legislature is finally getting it that they can't be loosey goosey about enforcing the laws anymore.
                    Enforcing the law that they write and pass? Your not making much sense here. Legally they could scrap the law completely (but then they'd probably face voter backlash.) So, they can do anything they want, as long as it doesn't outrage the voters.


                    Originally posted by Miulang View Post
                    That Hawai'i 2050 Sustainability study
                    Oh, please. I looked at it. It's nothing more then a omnibus bill for everyone to stick in their pet project regardless of how sound it is in hopes that together it will pass and become policy. And for the lawmakers to feel like they are doing something. It's political glitter.


                    Originally posted by Keanu View Post
                    What irritates me is the fact that the State Legislature will convene a special session to save the Superferry. No law should be amended for the benefit of a single business.
                    Except what's been done to a single business shows that the courts are not interpreting things the way the Legislature intended.


                    Originally posted by craig foo View Post
                    I just hope that during the past month enough Hawaii state legislators have been able to acquire a more appreciative understanding of how consequential Oahu's outer islanders believe this Superferry invasion is to their quality of life. Legislators are in a position to acquire such appreciation where many of the citizens in their districts are not in such a position.
                    Oh, I'm sure they do now, thanks to the Star-Bulletin. Surprised? It appears even Kauai favors the HSF.



                    Originally posted by woodman View Post
                    Are you suggesting that the state legislature reconvene to manipulate the system to undermine a decisions reached by the state judiciary?
                    The judiciary doesn't make laws. They interpret them. And if the legislature finds they didn't do a good job the first time around, they can go back and fix up the parts that were unclear.


                    Now, can someone explain to me what in the heck is so magical about the EA/EIS? It's nothing more then a piece of paper that at best talks about options to mitigating problems. It's not law, it's not binding. It's just information. Somehow, I don't think that would be enough to satisfy the protesters. They are just hiding behind it as a legal obstacle, but it's not their true aim.


                    Now for me, I think the only real questions left are:
                    - Can the state get it's act together before HSF sets sail?
                    - Will the protesters settle down once it starts sailing again?
                    The rest is just details.

                    Stay tuned for another episode of "As the stomach turns"

                    Comment


                    • #70
                      Re: Hawaii Superferry - Chapter 7

                      If the legislature goes into special session and they vote to save the SuperFerry, they should add additional funds to fit the ship with a few water cannons. Maybe the people on board could plop quarters in it to keep water pressure up as they could spray anything within the "security zone". That would be better than the telescope.

                      Comment


                      • #71
                        Re: Hawaii Superferry - Chapter 7

                        Originally posted by zztype View Post
                        It's just another boat. One among hundreds, maybe thousands, which uses all our harbor facilities, daily, year-round.
                        ...and I reiterate, less than 1 percent of those thousands need a $40 million ramp.

                        We can’t be so fixated on our desire to preserve the rights of ordinary Americans.

                        — U.S. President Bill Clinton
                        USA TODAY, page 2A
                        11 March 1993

                        Comment


                        • #72
                          Re: Hawaii Superferry - Chapter 7

                          Once again, here's another "Plan B" (LN!) option...



                          Add parasailing, jet skiing, restaurant on the main upper deck, banquet hall/nightclub in the garage deck below and we've got ourselves the coolest (albeit most expensive) "activity boat" coming out of Honolulu Harbor! Change the name and logo to "Oahu SuperCruiser".

                          I still prefer "Plan A".
                          Last edited by Pomai; October 10, 2007, 04:12 AM.
                          sigpic The Tasty Island

                          Comment


                          • #73
                            Re: Hawaii Superferry - Chapter 7

                            Originally posted by GeckoGeek View Post
                            Except what's been done to a single business shows that the courts are not interpreting things the way the Legislature intended.
                            If the Legislature leaves a statute open to subjectivity in such a way, it is their fault, not the fault of the courts. Remember, EVERY word within the Statutes are there either by creation or amendment. Who's to say what the Legislature intended?

                            HRS section 343-5 seems clear enough to me.

                            Comment


                            • #74
                              Re: Hawaii Superferry - Chapter 7

                              Originally posted by woodman View Post
                              Are you suggesting that the state legislature reconvene to manipulate the system to undermine a decisions reached by the state judiciary?
                              Yes, for reasons I mentioned in my letter.


                              I have not read his decision. I would like to.

                              Do you have a copy his remarks so we can explore the reason behind this decision?
                              Look on the right side of this article http://starbulletin.com/2007/10/10/news/story01.html. The entire ruling is posted there.
                              Check out my blog on Kona issues :
                              The Kona Blog

                              Comment


                              • #75
                                Re: Hawaii Superferry - Chapter 7

                                Originally posted by Konaguy View Post
                                I strongly urge the legislature to have a special session to deal with the Hawaii Superferry debacle.
                                Originally posted by woodman View Post
                                Are you suggesting that the state legislature reconvene to manipulate the system to undermine a decisions reached by the state judiciary?
                                Originally posted by Konaguy View Post
                                Yes, for reasons I mentioned in my letter.
                                Doesn’t it bother you that this notion conflicts with separation of powers?

                                Would you prefer the rules of government be altered to dissolve this separation?

                                Comment

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