Left v. Right on HT

[tutusue]

Originally Posted by matapule

We like condo living with an HOA for the same reasons you do. It is not perfect, but better than the alternatives. No rules/no regulations = anarchy. [...]

The biggest problem I found with no AOAO/HOA was exterior maintenance. The townhouse project had a series of buildings that included from 4 to 8 townhomes per building. There were no rules for painting. There were no rules for the common roof. There was no continuity of fences or green areas. Some carports were used as storage by their residents and looked like a tenement. There were no rules forbidding that. I didn't find the behavior of the residents a problem, however, just their choices on what to do with "their" exteriors, even tho' the facade ran evenly across the buildings! If a resident did have a problem with another unit there was no BoD to complain to! One had to address the owner directly. My portion of the roof had leaks and needed to be replaced. The owners of the other 3 units weren't experiencing leaks and would not agree to replace the entire roof and split the cost evenly. I ended up replacing my 1/4, hoping that it wouldn't create leaks for the units on either side of me. Must admit, tho', since I was flipping that unit I didn't really care about long term.

I do have a problem with privatizing certain services with this post by matapule in another thread as an example. While I don't mind the private fire dept. not responding to a fire at the home of a delinquent account, my concern is for the neighbors.

I can't imagine a government like that, at any level. Oh wait, that wouldn't be a government at all. As you mentioned...anarchy.

[matapule]

Originally Posted by tutusue

The biggest problem I found with no AOAO/HOA was exterior maintenance.

My biggest pet peeve is dogs. Even though our HOA has rules about dogs, dog owners refuse to follow them. I really get upset when an owner from another building brings their dog to crap at the entrance to ours and then leave it there. If they get caught they will be fined. If no rules, there wouldn't be any way to control that nuisance. And this is an even greater problem with living in a single family home. The fact that YOU have to clean your front yard for people who let their dogs dump their yard bombs in front of your house. Please don't misunderstand, I love dogs.......when they are on a leash and the owner carries a bag for cleanup.

I'm still waiting for Kaonohi to respond to your questions. Since he doesn't want any rules, I wonder if he would volunteer for the neighborhood poop patrol. I wonder how he would feel about rules if he had to go out everyday and cleanup the neighbor's dog !@#%?

[matapule]

Originally Posted by tutusue

While I don't mind the private fire dept. not responding to a fire at the home of a delinquent account,

I don't agree Tutu. I don't know which thread to post this response.

The home owner didn't pay because he lost his job! He was using his unemployment benefits to buy groceries for his family and make house payments, just to exist. Because of that, we are saying he deserved to have his house burn down? Because he is destitute? Because he is down on his luck? There but for the grace of god go I and all the rest of us too!

Uaifi and matapule went round and round about this for an hour. We finally arrived at a mutually agreeable solution that would not please any of the parties involved.

Blessed Be, all of us.

[Peshkwe]

Hummm....

I'm more into anarchy than Gandhi and Mandela, pretty even with the Dali Lama in that, but over farther to the right than he is.

[tutusue]

Originally Posted by matapule

I don't agree Tutu. I don't know which thread to post this response.

The home owner didn't pay because he lost his job! He was using his unemployment benefits to buy groceries for his family and make house payments, just to exist. Because of that, we are saying he deserved to have his house burn down? Because he is destitute? Because he is down on his luck? There but for the grace of god go I and all the rest of us too!

Uaifi and matapule went round and round about this for an hour. We finally arrived at a mutually agreeable solution that would not please any of the parties involved.

Blessed Be, all of us.

I completely understand what you're saying and don't really disagree with you, btw. I just stated it poorly. Instead of "don't mind" I should've written "understand" (not to be confused with "approve"). But, based on other situations, this rationale tends to apply. Take that same out of work gentleman trying to provide for his family. If he's unable to pay his electricity bill then the electricity is cut off. So much for food safety. Ditto for his phone and internet which could be so necessary to help him find a job. If he misses enough car payments his car is repossessed making job hunting and trips to the doctor for his children that much more difficult. Miss enough mortgage payments and...foreclosure. Miss enough rent payments and...eviction.

In the fire scenario, what impressed me the most was the danger his paid-in-full neighbors were exposed to. Do you know if the privately contracted fire dept. stood by to assist those homeowners in case the fire spread? Or did that fire dept. refuse to leave the station? With a fire dept. funded by taxpayers, the gentleman's house stood a chance of being saved, regardless of his job loss.

And, I agree, I don't know if this belongs in this thread except it shows how fast life can spiral out of control. Government is necessary.

Care to share your "mutually agreeable solution"?!

[matapule]

Originally Posted by tutusue

If he's unable to pay his electricity bill then the electricity is cut off. So much for food safety. Ditto for his phone and internet which could be so necessary to help him find a job. If he misses enough car payments his car is repossessed making job hunting and trips to the doctor for his children that much more difficult. Miss enough mortgage payments and...foreclosure. Miss enough rent payments and...eviction.

Don't know about every location but California has a "safety net" to prevent the above from happening to the truly indigent. So no, that doesn't happen to the indigent. The program is funded by general tax revenue and the Baggers in California want to eliminate that.............unless they are the one who is indigent!

Do you know if the privately contracted fire dept. stood by to assist those homeowners in case the fire spread?

Don't know, it wasn't reported. As I recall this incident occured in Kentucky, Bagger Central. But yes, the irresponsible actions of the private fire contractor put the whole neighborhood in danger.

Care to share your "mutually agreeable solution"?!

I was in City government in California. By law the primary charge of City governement is "to protect the public health, safety, and welfare." Those words are etched indelibly in my mind. Now you can protect the public safety with either a public or private fire company. The city in question didn't by executing a flawed contract.

Our solution:

1. The private fire contractor should be contracted to respond to all fires, whether the account is up to date or not.
2. The fire contractor should take whatever means is legally available to them to collect accounts receivable (e.g. small claims court)
3. The city should pay for the cost of the response provided by the contractor to that specific fire if the account is in arrears. The city can then lien the property for the cost of that service just like they do for property tax due.
4. When and if the account is made current plus penalties, the private contractor reimburses the city for the cost of that response and the city removes the lien.
5. The home owner will be resposnsible for any past due accounts and liens (plus interest and penalties) at the time he sells his property.

There - nobody's happy! I don't know if that is a Left or Right solution! to get us back on topic.

[tutusue]

Originally Posted by matapule

[...]The city in question didn't by executing a flawed contract....

This was going to be my next question...What did the contract state?!

There - nobody's happy!

Your solution makes total sense to me!

I don't know if that is a Left or Right solution! to get us back on topic.

I guess we'll find out when we see who disagrees!

[Konaguy]

Originally Posted by Leo Lakio

Just as the more left-leaning posters run the gamut from strongly liberal/progressive to just slightly left-of-center, there are many HT’ers who tend to fall more often to the right side of the spectrum to one degree or another. Amongst the ones who come to mind right away (and I know I am missing several others) are Mel, TimKona, Bobinator, Nobunaga, Walkoff Balk, Konaguy, Scrivener, CraigWatanabe, Sansei, NachoDaddy, Escondido100 and BJD392. There’s no dearth of conservative opinion expressed here.

I think its a bit unfair to characterize myself strictly a right leaning individual. Yes I do have some right leaning views, but I also have views that could be characterized as moderate.

[matapule]

Originally Posted by Konaguy

I think its a bit unfair to characterize myself strictly a right leaning individual. Yes I do have some right leaning views, but I also have views that could be characterized as moderate.

Here is the problem with what you say. The moderate or centrist view as been moved way to the right of center with the Presidency of Reagan and continuing since. Your "moderate" views of today would have been far to the right of Goldwater at that time. You may characterize your views as "moderate" but that may not be how others perceive them.

[Konaguy]

Originally Posted by matapule

Here is the problem with what you say. The moderate or centrist view as been moved way to the right of center with the Presidency of Reagan and continuing since. Your "moderate" views of today would have been far to the right of Goldwater at that time. You may characterize your views as "moderate" but that may not be how others perceive them.

For starters, you don't have a clue who I am and what I stand for. So, it is unfair to pigeonhole my opinions as right-wing. The most important thing to me is trying to make Hawaii a better place. I spend hours and end researching/on the phone getting project updates for my blog.

I wish people would stop pigeonholing people here. Maybe this is why I've pretty much stopped participating in the discussion.

[Leo Lakio]

Originally Posted by Konaguy

I think its a bit unfair to characterize myself strictly a right leaning individual. Yes I do have some right leaning views, but I also have views that could be characterized as moderate.

I did say: ...tend to fall more often to the right side of the spectrum to one degree or another.

Going back over your posts (as well as your blog), I stand by my assessment as stated.

[Konaguy]

Originally Posted by Leo Lakio

I did say: ...tend to fall more often to the right side of the spectrum to one degree or another.

Going back over your posts (as well as your blog), I stand by my assessment as stated.

Who made you the judge/jury and executioner to make a blanket opinion about me in that way? You can't solely conjure up an opinion just by looking at a cover of a book. The same goes for people. You don't know who I am or what I stand for aside from what I've written.

You have no clue about how passionate I am about the future of Hawaii, nor how many hours I spend working on my blog making sure its updated, along with holding government accountable.

[anapuni808]

if you didn't want to be confronted about your views (and I'm not saying anything about them), then maybe you should have stayed out of a political discussion? Just saying...............

[matapule]

Originally Posted by Konaguy

how many hours I spend working on my blog making sure its updated, along with holding government accountable.

Who made you the judge/jury and executioner of holding government accountable? Aaron, relax, it works both ways. Don't throw stones if you live in a glass hale.

You don't know who I am or what I stand for aside from what I've written.

How else are we to know you? You don't know me other than what I have written and you have judged me thusly. No one on HT has ever met me personally. I am only known by what I have written.

In my opinion, you are a valued member of the HT ohana. Everyone has an opinion here on just about every subject. Your blog is your opinion. My posts are my opinion. My opinions change from time to time based on what people post on this forum. Diversity of thought and experence is good! I like to have my opinions challenged with reasoned thought. If you are a "moderate" or "conservative" or "liberal" on whatever issue, be proud of what you think. Enjoy the scrutiny here on HT. It will either make you a stronger believer in what you think or perhaps, just perhaps, you might give your opinions a second thought. Don't be petulant because someone may not agree with you. If you post it, be prepared to justify it.

Blessed Be.

[salmoned]

Originally Posted by Konaguy

Who made you the judge/jury and executioner to make a blanket opinion about me in that way? You can't solely conjure up an opinion just by looking at a cover of a book. The same goes for people. You don't know who I am or what I stand for aside from what I've written.

You have no clue about how passionate I am about the future of Hawaii, nor how many hours I spend working on my blog making sure its updated, along with holding government accountable.

This is just so funny. Nonsensical, and funny. Keep up the 'good works'.

We are each our own judge/jury and executioner of our own opinions - if you don't agree with that, I feel very sorry for you.

Passion is no measure of effectiveness, you just may be passionately wrong-minded (looking one way, but proceeding in the opposite direction).

[Leo Lakio]

Originally Posted by Konaguy

You don't know who I am or what I stand for aside from what I've written.

Aaron, read again what I said in the first post. I made my assessment on what posters have written. If you assume I am making judgment on anything beyond that, you are incorrect.

[salmoned]

Leo, I hope your opinion is also formed based on what hasn't been written as well, often it's the unwritten stuff that prevails, eh?

[Leo Lakio]

Originally Posted by salmoned

Leo, I hope your opinion is also formed based on what hasn't been written as well, often it's the unwritten stuff that prevails, eh?

In this particular thread, though, I'm hewing closely to what's been publicly written and posted, since my original point was addressing those who complained that there was a dearth of postings from a more conservative p.o.v. Based solely on Aaron/Konaguy's HT postings, as well as his blog (which I included in my assessment, as he often steers us there for further writings on his views), I say he falls more often to the right of center. He doesn't have to be far right to be on my initial list, simply more to the conservative than the liberal direction. He even admits to "right leaning views," so I'm not sure what the problem is - he puts himself on that list I made.

[Konaguy]

Whatever. I don't need this public criticism of my opinions at this point. My life is already stressful enough. So, I'm going to ask that my account here be terminated.

[anapuni808]

Aaron - lighten up! someone disagrees with you. Its not the end of the world. Its what this thread is about - where on the political spectrum do you see yourself? is the question. You're a right - many on here are lefties, including me. But, you still have a right to express your opinion. as does everyone else.

Defend your position (like a debate?) instead of running away and admitting defeat in the argument. I for one, hope you will stay!

[tutusue]

Aaron, you weren't flamed. No one questioned your passion for Hawaii. So I honestly don't understand your anger. You're a valued member of HT and I, for one, would miss your contributions. Please reconsider.

[matapule]

Originally Posted by Konaguy

Whatever. I don't need this public criticism of my opinions at this point. My life is already stressful enough.

Aaron, if it wouldn't be too stressful, can you point out where you have been criticized? We are all under stress to one degree or another almost all the time. Some members of HT have chosen to share their stress with the HT family, and I think received some good advice, as well as support. I can think of several but one in particular in the last couple of days. Do you care to share anything about your stress with us? Maybe we can help. If you feel I have personally been unfair to you, send me a PM and let's talk it out. I'm sure we can come to some sort of "peacefire".

[Leo Lakio]

Originally Posted by Konaguy

Whatever. I don't need this public criticism of my opinions at this point.

NO ONE criticized your opinions; we've only discussed where on the left/right spectrum they appear to fall most often.

But you know what? Aaron has played this victim-game on several occasions before, usually with the "you've earned a place on my ignore list" whine.

If posting on the internet is too stressful for someone, by all means, they should take a break and step away from the computer screen. But no one over the age of eleven should play the "you guys are too mean - I'm takin' my ball and goin' home" game and still expect to be respected.

[Kalalau]

I took that quiz, came out a -5.88 on economics, a -4.46 on social libertarian, in the Ghandi quadrant.

[Palama Kid]

Ryan, thanks for the links. I retook the tess.

Not that I need to tell you (see below numbers), but after four years, I've moved further left on the Economic scale & stayed about the same on the Social:

Your political compass (2006):
Economic Left/Right: -4.13
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -3.79

Your political compass (2010):
Economic Left/Right: -5.62
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -3.64

Those questions had me going.