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  • Truck Beds & Passengers

    Yesterday's horrific crash on Kunia Road has rekindled a long-simmering debate over whether passengers should be allowed in the open beds of pickup trucks. Thanks to my "devil's advocate" nature, I find myself able to energetically argue both in favor and against such a ban, depending on my mood.

    Why not impose such a ban? Well, current laws already prevent passengers ages 12 and under from riding in truck beds (where they might not otherwise have a choice, or informed consent), and if adults choose to accept the risks, more power to them -- an argument similar to those against motorcycle helmet laws. Also, yes, in rural areas, households might have only a pickup truck for practical reasons, but still need to carry more than three or so people at a time.

    Why impose such a ban? Well, it's dangerous, for one. Two, it's not entirely true that the only people affected are the people deciding to ride in truck beds... since presumably higher injury and death rates correlate to greater health care costs for everyone (as with, again, motorcycle helmet laws). Finally, while there are no doubt farmers and rural families whose pickup trucks are both vital to their livelihood and also the only way to transport people... IMHO, pickup trucks (particularly obnoxiously huge pickup trucks) are just as likely to be a lifestyle choice at the "luxury" end of the transportation continuum these days.

    In other words, it seems quite likely to me that a family might have the means to buy a giant, flashy Ford pickup truck or a practical and safe family van, but opt for the truck for cosmetic reasons... and just throwing tutu and the surpluss kids in the bed in back for those trips involving more people than fit in the (admittedly also larger than average) passenger cab.

    I'm undecided, honestly. The libertarian in me wants to say, "Hey, it's your life, buddy."

    But the massive popularity of needlessly big burly trucks irks me like flashy SUVs do. Trucks that are kept shiny and chrome-enhanced (or, even more ridiculously, lowed to the point where they can't clear a speed bump) and will obviously never be used for what a truck is designed for.

    If it's your show-off second car, or if you don't have a big family, actually, hey... knock yourself out. But I know a family with five kids and two pick-up trucks -- one lowered tricked-out Nissan and a Dodge so big it doesn't fit in the garage. Neither has ever carried anything larger than a milk crate. What's the point of that?

    Er, don't mind me. I'm just the petty, whiny, emasculated owner of two minivans.

    Let's make this a poll. Should passengers be banned from truck beds or not?
    29
    Yes, ban them.
    48.28%
    14
    No, don't ban them.
    48.28%
    14
    I don't know, or I don't care.
    3.45%
    1

  • #2
    Re: Truck Beds & Passengers

    I will allow the libertarian in me to vote against more government regulation.

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Truck Beds & Passengers

      In califorlornia, I worked with some gal whose teenager was sitting on the wheel well in the back of a pickup.
      he popped out.
      Mah-ke, die, dead
      Whose fault?
      his.
      So, owning the socialite status level she enjoyed at the time, found it quick work to enact a law that no one rides in the back of pickups in cali.
      thanks for regulating our behavior once again.
      I simply hate the cause célèbre caused by celebrities.

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Truck Beds & Passengers

        Oh, now everyone wants to be a libertarian, hm?
        Just kidding. I know Pz voted for Tracy Ryan, so it's cool.

        People who get flung from vehicles pose serious harm to others. Seatbelt laws protect more than just the people who wear them; I am in favor of them. Helmet laws only protect the welfare of the people who wear them; I am opposed to them.

        So how do I feel about pickup truck laws? Errr...I don't know!

        I do know that the deaths of these people is not the fault of their driver; nor is it their own faults, if I understand the events correctly. Let's not make laws that put the blame on people making reasonable decisions when the deaths are the fault of some idiot going too fast and driving like a bastard.
        But I'm disturbed! I'm depressed! I'm inadequate! I GOT IT ALL! (George Costanza)
        GrouchyTeacher.com

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Truck Beds & Passengers

          I'm on the fence on this issue too. The thing that irks me about it the most is driving behind the truck carrying passengers in the truckbed--I hate that awkward situation where I am trying to drive and keep my eyes on the road without making it seem like I'm staring at the truckbed passengers and they are staring at me.

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Truck Beds & Passengers

            I hate that this accident occurred. Like maybe we should be instigating bounties on hit-and-run drivers. But I, like GossyP, loathe more regulation. Clearly this was a case of people who couldn't afford anything else. The truck is the family car, brings the crops to the barn, etc. I don't like seeing people in the backs of trucks, but I can understand the economics behind it.
            Aloha from Lavagal

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Truck Beds & Passengers

              I'm guilty of riding dangerously on the back of trucks, ranging from riding in the back because the cab is already full of people, to securing six drywalls because the gate is out and the only thing I'm holding on are the bars where even more wood is stored (tied down of course).

              My Dad has two trucks: one old truck with the said bars and the cab can only fit three people (four if the people were all skinny) and a newer model truck that has an third door for a back seat, but no bars so someone will have to secure the cargo no matter what. Neither me nor my brothers has been injured while riding any of those trucks (riding to the graveyard during memorial day, to going to a house to fix it up in the rain with cargo and hauling dirt/gravel/debris to the dump - while going 50mph +). We all know the risks involved, but the other alternative is to have someone else (most likely me) driving another car and trying to keep up with my Dad. I think I'll stop my comment there.
              How'd I get so white and nerdy?

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Truck Beds & Passengers

                I am opposed to idiots engaging in unsafe passing maneuvers, thereby causing others to crash while trying to avoid crashing into their idiot selves ... um ... idiotness ... idiotical idiocies ... uh ...

                Well, it made sense when I started this post!

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Truck Beds & Passengers

                  Maddie is right. The guys in the truck bed were doing nothing wrong.

                  They were only catching a ride from the time clock at the farm office to the working field a mile down the road. They were not going to drive their family cars onto the field. The family cars would get stuck and trashed in the mud, likely. That's why they were riding a field truck.

                  The guy who caused the accident through his illegal and dangerous maneuvers is completely to blame. There are two letters in today's paper that scold people for riding in pickup truck beds, but neither one mentions the idiot who caused the crash and deaths. Both letters attack the people for riding in the truck bed. Both letters basically say it was their own damned fault.

                  I really feel for those people in the truck. I'm sure they were all sweet, gentle, hard working family people who wished no harm on anyone else. They don't deserve to be scolded or chastised after their deaths.

                  But a healthy witch hunt should ensue for the turkey who caused the crash.

                  Blaine
                  Make trouble, have fun, do good stuffs.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Truck Beds & Passengers

                    Bummer about those letters, Blaine. I hope it's obvious that I'm certainly not blaming the victims in this particular case, nor is anyone else here. This query is inspired by the Kunia Road accident, but not focused on it.

                    As I wrote, there are often very practical, economical reasons why people may have to ride in the bed of a truck... one of the good arguments against a blanket ban.

                    I also think lots of people buy pickup trucks who don't need them, and lots of people ride in the bed of a truck that don't need to.

                    Given the luxury of choice, a lot of people will put themselves at risk needlessly, and in some of those situations - even though there might be good reasons to do so for some people - action is taken to minimize that risk. Signs on hiking trails, limits on when liquor can be sold, new requirements to buy cold medicines.

                    I was just curious if anyone thought this was such a scenario.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Truck Beds & Passengers

                      Originally posted by zztype
                      The guy who caused the accident through his illegal and dangerous maneuvers is completely to blame. There are two letters in today's paper that scold people for riding in pickup truck beds, but neither one mentions the idiot who caused the crash and deaths. Both letters attack the people for riding in the truck bed. Both letters basically say it was their own damned fault.

                      I really feel for those people in the truck. I'm sure they were all sweet, gentle, hard working family people who wished no harm on anyone else. They don't deserve to be scolded or chastised after their deaths.

                      But a healthy witch hunt should ensue for the turkey who caused the crash.

                      Blaine
                      I, for one, am calling the idiot legislators who wrote letters (one in SB and there was one in the 'Tiser as well) and let them know what I think of them and their gratuitous behavior.

                      May the driver rot in hell.

                      Edited to add that it was one legislator, Will Espero, who sent the letter to both papers. Maybe I'll call him twice...
                      Last edited by glossyp; April 26, 2006, 09:28 AM.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Truck Beds & Passengers

                        If it's a matter of lifestyle as to the reasons why there shouldn't be a ban then let's apply "lifestyle" to all aspects of our laws. Hey my lifestyle isn't as good as it was in the 80's so let's make robbing banks legal if that's what it takes to make me rich again.

                        In the word lifestyle the root word in it is Life. And for that I believe a lifestyle should revolve around maintaining your life to style around. Riding in a pickup bed is not styling. It's dangerous. Heck I could say all I could afford was this little dinky compact that seats four. But I got a family of six so I'm gonna let two of em hang onto the roof. Not a safe place...but I'm a poor working stiff and cannot afford a van for my family. BULLLLLL SHITTTTTT!

                        When my minivan went south for repairs and I had to transport all of my kids to school, I took our Jetta and made two trips instead of one to SAFELY transport my kids to school.

                        The really amazing thing is that we have better restraint laws for our animals in pickups (secured at three points) than we have for people.

                        The reasons for allowing people in the back because of poor economic status is so shallow.

                        The ironic part of the Kunia accident is that despite the head on collision the driver and front passenger lived while four of the bed passengers died. That alone tells you the dangers of riding in the bed of a pick up at any speed.

                        You don't gamble with lives for the sake of lifestyle. That's just plain dumb.
                        Life is what you make of it...so please read the instructions carefully.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Truck Beds & Passengers

                          Originally posted by glossyp
                          I, for one, am calling the idiot legislators who wrote letters (one in SB and there was one in the 'Tiser as well) and let them know what I think of them and their gratuitous behavior.
                          Here's the letter in the Star-Bulletin from Espero, and yes, the same letter ran in the Advertiser. There was a second letter in the Star-Bulletin also calling for a ban.

                          Okay, here's my question. I agree with Blaine that the victims in the Kunia Road crash "don't deserve to be scolded or chastised after their deaths." And "gratuitous behavior" bothers me as much as anyone. But how is seeing the tragedy as a call to action -- if not by a politician (who will certainly seize opportunities to take a stand), by a community -- interpreted as "scolding" or as an attack on the victims?

                          I mean, we can disagree over whether an outright ban on carrying passengers in truck beds is a good idea, but the fact that the conversation started is, IMHO, not an inherently negative judgement on Getrudis, Lorna, Ana and Aquilina. To some (like the woman in California that Kimo55 mentions) it may even be a tribute.

                          Laws inspired by events, tragedies, and victims are proposed and passed all the time. I'd see it as trying (and perhaps failing) to learn from a broader, societal mistake or shortcoming rather than "piling on" those who were initially hurt and killed.

                          ETA: Who owned the truck, anyway? Was it their employer's? I mean, obviously economic pressures may have been what led these women to work where they worked and therefore to get on that truck (again, a fair argument against a ban)... but if someone was in the business of regularly transporting a dozen people, perhaps they might have considered another vehicle?
                          Last edited by pzarquon; April 26, 2006, 11:01 AM.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Truck Beds & Passengers

                            The senator, Will Espero, called me back after I left a message. He told me that he saw this as an 'opportunity' to reintroduce and enact legislation he wants passed. I suppose whether it is perceived as gratuitous or not depends on whether you think his motives are pure or purely political. His failure to mention anything at all regarding the law breaker, who was the direct cause of the deaths in this instance, smacks of political pandering. I am a cynic when it comes to politicians.

                            One of my concerns is the economic pressures that already exist on our local agriculture businesses. I believe it's important for Hawaii to expand production of locally grown produce, but it is an expensive proposition with little profit and ongoing pressure from outside suppliers. It's easy to say they should be riding in another type of vehicle; what if that truck (btw, I don't know who owned it) served multiple functions to the farm and the cost efficiency of that multi-tasking makes a difference as to whether they can continue to operate?

                            On another note. What if these women did farm work not just because of economic pressures but because they enjoyed it? (Sounds far fetched to city folk!) I know it's all speculation but to presume or assume they were victims of anything other than a stupid, impatient driver minimizes the tragedy and his culpability.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Truck Beds & Passengers

                              The bed of the truck was covered with some kind of protective frame and cloth (canvas, maybe?). The only open area was above the tail gate. I'd guess the 4 women were seated closest to this area. I can't imagine what the death toll would've been without this covered bed.

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