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  • #46
    Re: Truck Beds & Passengers

    Originally posted by craigwatanabe
    I stand by my position that riding in the bed of a truck should be banned period. Four women would be alive today if it were.
    In that case, riding (or driving) in motor vehicles should be banned, period. Tens of thousands of people would be alive today if it were.

    Oh, but that would inconvenience *you.*

    Comment


    • #47
      Re: Truck Beds & Passengers

      Originally posted by D'Alani
      Would this also include all those soldiers you see on the Freeways riding behind those "troop mover" type trucks? Although there are benches I don't see any of them wearing seat belts.
      I doubt a "state" law would affect the military, especially on the freeways. Our highways were federally funded with certain "considerations". There is a term used for it, but can't remember. Something about strategic accessability for military use.

      Comment


      • #48
        Re: Truck Beds & Passengers

        A 'Kunia Farm Workers' Memorial Fund' has been set up at Bank of Hawaii. Those wishing to contribute can do so at any BOH branch.

        Comment


        • #49
          Re: Truck Beds & Passengers

          Originally posted by MadAzza
          In that case, riding (or driving) in motor vehicles should be banned, period. Tens of thousands of people would be alive today if it were.

          Oh, but that would inconvenience *you.*
          You can compare anything to make a point and I'd have a hard time disagreeing with that, however in this particular this topic is not on freedom of choice but truck beds and passengers.

          The bed of a truck wasn't designed for human occupancy. That is a fact so when the unexpected happens there is a pretty good chance that there is nothing to save the life of anyone who is riding back there.

          With a car you have safety features to minimize the potential of serious injury or death. The fact that both passengers in "approved" seating in that truck survived says the chances of survival when properly seated is much greater than for those improperly seated.

          Forget the speeding driver, the driver of the truck could have hit a pothole and one of those women could have fallen out resulting in death.

          Yes this maniac on the road caused these women to fall out of the truck BUT...it was the sheer act of falling or being ejected out of the truck that killed these women.

          Had these women been properly restrained they would probably still be alive today. At least they would have had a better chance of survival if restrained.

          The litmus test of whether you believe riding in a bed of a truck is good or bad is when you ask yourself: Would you let your loved ones sit back there knowing that any bump, swerve, or sudden maneuver could jeopardize their lives? There's no in-between answers here, it's either yes or no. Choosing No says you do care about the safety and well-being of your loved ones. Answering yes tells me otherwise.

          When my two oldest boys drive I tell them to put on their seatbelts and drive defensively because I love them and want them to have as much protection they can muster up when they do drive. Not telling them to drive safely and buckle up is almost as bad as child neglect.

          If you do believe riding in the back of a truck is dangerous and risky, then you should do as much as possible to educate those around you to that danger and risk. It's what I would ask from anyone if I was doing something bad unknowingly.

          If saving your life meant banning things you enjoy doing then at least your loved ones have you another day to cherish your life instead of mourning your death. Remember once you're dead the grief falls on your survivors and I'd hate to pass that kind of misery on my family because I exercised my freedom of choice and died needlessly because of it.

          Sometimes it takes an authorative source to get us to react responsibly, like not eating fatty foods because our doctor finally told us not to. We know it's bad but we need to hear it from the doctor.

          Everyone here knows riding in the back of a moving truck is very dangerous...and for some it takes an authorative source to tell those of us who choose not to heed these sentiments. I could tell you that riding on a motorcycle without a helmet is extremely dangerous till I'm blue in the face and you still wouldn't do it, but if it were a law, you'd have to. And if it saved your life because of that law at least the law worked and you'd still be here to challenge my position.

          I can just see a defense attorney using the seatbelt law to defend his client on charges of manslaughter of these four women: Your Honor the laws state that passengers in a vehicle should be properly restrained with approved restraining devices in an approved seating configuration while in a moving vehicle. This law is to protect the occupants in the event of an accident. These women were not properly restrained at all and not in an approved seating configuration while travelling in this truck on Kunia road the day of the accident. Thru the negligence of their own part they contributed to and suffered fatal injuries because of improper seating and restraint. Your Honor I suggest that my client didn't cause their deaths but they chose to ride dangerously and that the lack of proper seating and restraint caused them to be ejected from the truck ultimately killing them. Yes your honor my client started the chain of events that led to four deaths, however the deaths themselves could have been prevented if these women were properly seated and restrained...case in point...the driver and front seat passenger of the truck that was transporting the women who did survive this head on collision with a cement truck.

          I can just see a defense lawyer using this very arguement to win his case and you know what...he's right. If these women were properly seated and restrained, they would probably be alive today and this is the focus of my point here that because these women chose to ride in a risky manner they took a chance and lost. Maybe they didn't know it was risky and that's a good possibility. That's where laws are used, to remind people that hey...that's a dangerous thing you're doing and if you keep doing it after you've been warned, you'll face a fine.

          It's like a parent telling their children, "This is for your own safety...I'm not doing this to punish your freedoms". If you can't figure that out then it should be someone else who does give a damn about saving your life. Why should I care about saving a stranger's life? Because it's the human part of me to want to save your life. If I saw you dangling over a cliff and about to lose your grip on that ledge, I'd risk my life to save yours.

          If I would go out on that perverbial limb to save your life...I would definately support a ban on reckless travelling to save it as well. You may hate me for saving your life, but your loved ones would think otherwise and that's why we live for the sake of our loved ones who would be the ones punished for every day they live with the memory of your death.

          Some of us are too focused on our own selves and not looking at the people around us who care about each other. Who cares about your life if you don't and chose to live recklessly? I do because I'd risk my life to protect yours and if that takes the resentment from you for me interfering with your life then so be it. I don't care if you hate me, I do care that your life is spared

          And FYI, I am a supporter of seatbelts and was one of the few that lobbied for passage of the seatbelt law. WHY because I'm also a member of the Survivors Club that was supported by then Governor John Waihee. This group contacted me to help lobby for passage of the seatbelt law after my life was saved because of a seatbelt. I didn't wear them, I hated to wear them but I did after one police officer came to our workplace and asked us to just wear it for that day and if it saved your life then he did his job as a police officer of protecting me as a citizen.

          That afternoon as I left the Gas Company in a driving rainstorm, I buckled up for the sake of Officer Hamasaki and subsequently rammed into another car that spun out on the Waialae offramp. That seatbelt saved my life only because someone asked me to do buckle up that fateful day.

          If one man could make a difference in my life 22-years ago, then I feel obligated to do whatever I can to save the lives of many others who feel otherwise that it's okay to do risky things like riding in the bed of a truck.

          It's your right to risk your life...it's my obligation to try to save it. I would rather see you alive and hate me rather than reading about your death in the newspaper because I didn't try hard enough to save it.

          If my arguements on this thread sways any one of you out there to think safety then that's a good thing. If it saves a life then it made my day. If it didn't, then I have to try harder.

          And I do hope they catch that person and punish him/her to the maximum extent of the law.
          Life is what you make of it...so please read the instructions carefully.

          Comment


          • #50
            Re: Truck Beds & Passengers

            Originally posted by craigwatanabe
            I could tell you that riding on a motorcycle without a helmet is extremely dangerous till I'm blue in the face and you still wouldn't do it, but if it were a law, you'd have to.
            What do you mean, she "wouldn't do it"? Maddie *does* wear a helmet. She isn't opposed to helmets. She opposes helmet *laws* thought up by people who don't know what they're preaching about, and who think the government knows what's best for everyone.

            Maddie believes in an individual's freedom to make personal choices for themselves. Wearing a helmet is her choice, even though the one time she said she crashed without a helmet on, the ER doc told her that if she'd been wearing a helmet, it probably would have broken her neck due to the angle of impact. As it was, she hobbled away with a minor leg injury and a few scrapes and bruises.

            Comment


            • #51
              Re: Truck Beds & Passengers

              Originally posted by kimo55
              Maddie believes in an individual's freedom to make personal choices for themselves.
              A helmet law should be sensible. If you choose not to wear a helmet you should simply forfeit all claims to money from insurance, welfare, etc. Personal freedom and personal responsibility go hand-in-hand.

              Comment


              • #52
                Re: Truck Beds & Passengers

                Originally posted by beaker
                A helmet law should be sensible. If you choose not to wear a helmet you should simply forfeit all claims to money from insurance, welfare, etc. Personal freedom and personal responsibility go hand-in-hand.
                Right. Same with people who engage in other "unsafe" habits. So if you eat red meat, any dairy products, non-hydroponically grown vegetables, rice, any form of oil, or if you smoke or drink any alcohol or soft drinks (sugar or nonsugar), or consume TV dinners, fish (mercury), pork or chicken, or if you drive or ride in a motor vehicle, you should forfeit all claims to health insurance coverage for any and all ills or injuries that might conceivably be related to any of the above, and if you receive any money for injuries sustained in any way by any of the above behaviors, you should be paraded down Kalakaua Avenue naked for being a hypocrite.

                And if I break my neck from crashing with my helmet on (while trying to avoid some idiot like you who refuses to use turn signals and is veering unpredictably all over the road I pay taxes for), then I'll come after YOU for my lifetime of expenses. Or if I can't see or hear you swerving into me (later, you can claim, "She came out of nowhere!) because my helmet is obscuring my vision and hearing.

                There I go again, confusing you with the truth. Sorry.

                I'm outta here, folks. It's just too frustrating trying to make some people think differently. They just don't want to. I give up. OK, we need more laws governing every aspect of everyone's behavior. The homeless are doing fine the way they are; nothing they do can change things. People who ride motorcycles are thrill-seeking maniacs who deserve to die. White people inherently bad, Asian and Hawaiian people inherently good. Build no new houses; force current non-"local" homeowners to sell their homes for $400,000 less than they're worth so "local" people can afford to buy them. Monarchies are superior to democracies. The Superferry is going to transfer alien species from island to island, even though hundreds of boats going between the islands every day cause no such problems. But it's from the mainland, so it must be evil.

                I give up.

                Comment


                • #53
                  Re: Truck Beds & Passengers

                  Originally posted by MadAzza
                  There I go again, confusing you with the truth. Sorry.
                  I'm outta here, folks. It's just too frustrating trying to make some people think differently. They just don't want to. I give up.
                  If you try to impose your opinions as "truth," you will always be frustrated. That would be a good habit to "give up." Learn instead why they choose to think differently from you; you may find that very insightful.

                  Comment


                  • #54
                    Re: Truck Beds & Passengers

                    Originally posted by craigwatanabe
                    Forget the speeding driver, the driver of the truck could have hit a pothole and one of those women could have fallen out resulting in death.
                    WARNING! VERY UNPLEASANT & GRAPHIC STORY AHEAD!

                    I didn't want to get drawn into this discussion, because I know PJ will accuse me of being "a Mainlander telling Island residents what to do."

                    The saddest thing I ever saw during times I have been in Hawai`i was when I was following a pickup truck, which had a leashed dog in the open bed. They hit a bump; the dog was tossed over the right side of the truck, with the leash still attached.

                    Despite my honking & flashing lights at the truck (which is not common behavior in the Islands, as far as I can tell), the driver seemed unaware of the fact that the dog was being dragged by the neck alongside the vehicle, and didn't even slow down as they continued up and onto H-3.

                    I could not follow; I had to pull over & get it together enough to call police. I don't know the rest of the story; I only know that the image haunts me still.

                    In my opinion, the bed of a truck is not designed for safe transport of a living being - period. This opinion applies anywhere, not just Hawai`i, PJ.

                    Comment


                    • #55
                      Re: Truck Beds & Passengers

                      Originally posted by Leo Lakio
                      In my opinion, the bed of a truck is not designed for safe transport of a living being - period. This opinion applies anywhere, not just Hawai`i, PJ.
                      And you're welcome to your opinion. Go ahead and take another swipe at me... if you decide to act like a condescending mainland haole, I'll be happy to get into it again with you.

                      Riding in the back of a pickup truck might not be safe, but it's still legal. If someone wants to take the risk of riding in the back, it's on them. The government has no business policing the behavior of the taxpayers.

                      Oh, and I'm curious. It was a horrible story, but what law did the driver actually break? In your haste to "get it together," did you manage to get a license plate number?

                      Comment


                      • #56
                        Re: Truck Beds & Passengers

                        Originally posted by kimo55
                        What do you mean, she "wouldn't do it"? Maddie *does* wear a helmet. She isn't opposed to helmets. She opposes helmet *laws* thought up by people who don't know what they're preaching about, and who think the government knows what's best for everyone.

                        Maddie believes in an individual's freedom to make personal choices for themselves. Wearing a helmet is her choice, even though the one time she said she crashed without a helmet on, the ER doc told her that if she'd been wearing a helmet, it probably would have broken her neck due to the angle of impact. As it was, she hobbled away with a minor leg injury and a few scrapes and bruises.

                        Ummm...Kimo...that remark was meant to be hypothetical. The point being is that unless something is mandated or ordered, most of us won't do it.
                        Life is what you make of it...so please read the instructions carefully.

                        Comment


                        • #57
                          Re: Truck Beds & Passengers

                          There's been an arrest.

                          Comment


                          • #58
                            Re: Truck Beds & Passengers

                            Originally posted by tutusue
                            Not charged, though, investigation still ongoing. Actually, I was surprised that the potential charges were so serious. I was figuring that despite all the attention and uproar, the biggest brick that could be thrown would be "leaving the scene" and "negligent homicide." Instead, causing a deadly accident is a class-B felony, and he'd face multiple counts.

                            The man turned himself in, accompanied by his attorney, but he's reportedly the same guy that the police tracked down independently soon after the wreck.

                            He's also a civilian employee at Schofield, rather than, I guess, active duty military. Interesting, given how "those military guys" were painted with such a broad, negative brush in this case. I suppose he might still be from the Mainland, but what if he's "local"?

                            And does it even matter? Frankly I've seen boneheaded aggressive driving on our rural roads by all kinds of folks. Heading out to Haleiwa, I'm just as likely to be tailgated and passed by a rented convertible as I am a dirt-covered pickup truck. With people in the bed. (He added, suddenly remembering the topic.)

                            Comment


                            • #59
                              Re: Truck Beds & Passengers

                              Seeing people, esp. kids, riding in truck beds, drives me absolutely fearful-for-their-lives nuts.

                              When I was at K59 when it was still at 1599 Kapiolani, (before the high-rise that's there now), there was a local AP wire story about a 15-year old Maui boy who was thrown from the bed of a pickup truck that was being driven around his school's parking lot. He died.

                              I wasn't even a mom yet, but I decided at that moment that one of my no-exceptions rules for my kids, were I to have any, would be that they are NEVER to ride in a truck bed. Ever. That if it was their only option, they were to CALL ME and I will come get them. I've not had to do it yet.

                              My eldest did rebel and ride in the bed of a truck once. It was being driven by my friend's husband -- carefully, etc., but I STILL lost it and forbade him (the son) to drive us home from the site where we were camping. My friend's husband's driving was not the issue -- my concern was THOSE OTHER DRIVERS who had no idea or reason to care that my son was riding in that truck bed.

                              It breaks my heart that those mothers, wives and sisters, etc., in the Jefts' farm truck, had no other option for a ride to work. I predict MASSIVE lawsuits.
                              **************************************
                              I know a lot less than what there is to be known.

                              Comment


                              • #60
                                Re: Truck Beds & Passengers

                                Here on the Big Island I see a lot of stupid driving but see more stupid truck bed riding. One guy was sitting on the passenger side bed rail while travelling down the Pahoa Highway.

                                When the driver had to slow down because some kids were goofing around too close to the roadway, this passenger almost fell backwards out of the bed. Had it not been for the pipe rack he'd have hit the pavement as the truck slowed down from over 60MPH.

                                The passenger then started yelling at the kids for playing around near the street. Some times you just gotta wonder
                                Life is what you make of it...so please read the instructions carefully.

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