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Hawaii Superferry - Chapter 7

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  • #76
    Re: Hawaii Superferry - Chapter 7

    Originally posted by TuNnL View Post
    ...and I reiterate, less than 1 percent of those thousands need a $40 million ramp.
    Yep. But the YB needs huge facilities on each island, much larger than HSF. They benefit from all the money the state spent to build their piers and improve the area to make it fit for them to do business there.

    Why don't we ask YB to stop sailing while they complete an ES?

    The airports require hundreds of millions of dollars a year to build, operate and maintain. Why don't we ask all the airlines to stop flying whenever we do a $40 million terminal upgrade or parking garage?

    We don't.
    Make trouble, have fun, do good stuffs.

    Comment


    • #77
      Re: Hawaii Superferry - Chapter 7

      Originally posted by woodman View Post
      Doesn’t it bother you that this notion conflicts with separation of powers?

      Would you prefer the rules of government be altered to dissolve this separation?
      No, it doesn't bother me. The judiciary interprets laws, the legislative branch
      makes the laws. If the laws are unclear or have grey areas, the legislative branch should step in.
      Check out my blog on Kona issues :
      The Kona Blog

      Comment


      • #78
        Re: Hawaii Superferry - Chapter 7

        Originally posted by Konaguy View Post
        No, it doesn't bother me. The judiciary interprets laws, the legislative branch
        makes the laws. If the laws are unclear or have grey areas, the legislative branch should step in.
        I really don't see any conflict in the separation of gov't. Law 343 is a pretty poorly worded law and exemptions have been done in the past so it's not like this is the first time. It's just that there hasn't been as much noise made over it as this time. So it is the legislative branch's role to fix it. The judicial branch merely enforces what the law is at that time. Why else do we have some courts making a decision in one way and courts in the other over similar issues? Because we have some bad laws or sometimes we have new laws that contradict old laws. There should be a fourth branch that focuses on simply cleaning up our law books.

        Comment


        • #79
          Re: Hawaii Superferry - Chapter 7

          Forgive me for not studying this prodigious thread more thoroughly, but I've seen enough coverage of this debacle, this fiasco and this affront to the sensibilities of anyone willing to see both sides of an issue to actually read any more about it. I've been writing about it since day one.

          I just want to say that I'm embarassed, and I mean that in the truest sense of the word. If I were John Garibaldi, I'd file a lawsuit against the State DOT, pack my bags and burn in a dumpster the corpse of what was once a fine idea. And I'd never look back. I've always been proud to have been raised in Hawai'i Nei, and I'm as close now to being ashamed of it as ever I have.

          Auntie's absolutely right. Shame.
          Don't be mean,
          try to help.

          Comment


          • #80
            Re: Hawaii Superferry - Chapter 7

            Nicely summarized, Jamie, thank you.

            Comment


            • #81
              Re: Hawaii Superferry - Chapter 7

              Originally posted by jdub View Post
              If I were John Garibaldi, I'd file a lawsuit against the State DOT
              Why? It wasn't the State DOT that was filing injunctions in Maui to stop it from docking there or it's workers jumping in the water on Kauai to prevent the ship from docking there.

              Comment


              • #82
                Re: Hawaii Superferry - Chapter 7

                From the comments I've been reading from the Neighbor Island legislators, most are loathe to consider going into special session just to bail out HSF. It sounds like the Gov. will have to be the one to convene the Special Session because the leadership of both houses of the Legislature don't sound convinced that this is a good idea.

                If a Special Session is called though, some interesting alternatives might come out of it: one legislator was thinking about sponsoring a proposal to allow HSF to just be used to help ease the traffic congestion on Oahu while the EA was being done, so that the boat would stay in Hawai'i. A more likely resolution will be to allow the boat to operate, but under some restrictions, like a slower speed and more thorough inspection/cleaning of the undercarriages of cars. This is what I expected Judge Cardoza to order yesterday, but he didn't.

                The big question is would HSF agree to travelling at less than 35 kts (like at the 15 kts NOAA recommends)? That would probably add a couple of hours to a trip, which would make being on a boat in the middle of the channels in the middle of winter an agonizingly painful trip for some. Another suggestion that has some merit (seems the major objection, other than the possibility of whale strikes, is the shipping of passenger cars which could transmit invasive species) is to allow HSF to sail but with no cars aboard. Would passengers and HSF be willing to do that?

                The first whale has been spotted off Lahaina (ironic that it happened yesterday afternoon), so the rest of the whales should be in the area within days. If HSF is allowed to sail, at the very least, they need to follow NOAA guidelines about the speed they should travel at within the primary humpback whale breeding grounds.

                Garibaldi wasn't kidding when he said it was a big disappointment for the people of Hawai'i. He's not too worried about the corporation itself: they have all kinds of alternatives: take the boat out of the state, let it be seized by MARAD, lease it out to the DOD...the major investor in HSF, John Lehman, got what he wanted: trained people and new facilities at his Alabama shipyard (which is next to Austal) to position his companies to build the next generation fleet of Navy cruisers (littoral combat ships).

                Miulang
                "Americans believe in three freedoms. Freedom of speech; freedom of religion; and the freedom to deny the other two to folks they don`t like.” --Mark Twain

                Comment


                • #83
                  Re: Hawaii Superferry - Chapter 7

                  Originally posted by jdub View Post
                  If I were John Garibaldi, I'd file a lawsuit against the State DOT
                  Originally posted by helen View Post
                  Why?
                  Was it the State DofT that told HSF they would not have to undergo an EA or EIS? If so, that's why.

                  Though, it doesn't really matter if it was the DofTransportation or the DofEcology or the DofWhateverthefook; if HSF sues, they will be suing the State overall - not just one division.

                  Comment


                  • #84
                    Re: Hawaii Superferry - Chapter 7

                    Originally posted by Leo Lakio View Post
                    Was it the State DofT that told HSF they would not have to undergo an EA or EIS? If so, that's why.

                    Though, it doesn't really matter if it was the DofTransportation or the DofEcology or the DofWhateverthefook; if HSF sues, they will be suing the State overall - not just one division.
                    HSF is not going to sue the State. Neither Lingle nor Superferry want ALL of their doings to brought to the attention of a heretofore well-deceived public. But who knows, neither HSF nor the State executive branch (we'll see about the legislative shortly) has shown much good sense in this affair. They are each fully capable of, and obviously stupid enough to be, cutting their own nuts off... at least where there are such appendages.
                    Last edited by craig foo; October 10, 2007, 03:24 PM.

                    Comment


                    • #85
                      Re: Hawaii Superferry - Chapter 7

                      Originally posted by Miulang View Post
                      From the comments I've been reading from the Neighbor Island legislators, most are loathe to consider going into special session just to bail out HSF. It sounds like the Gov. will have to be the one to convene the Special Session because the leadership of both houses of the Legislature don't sound convinced that this is a good idea.
                      The Governor will not convene a special session if there is no concurrence by the House and Senate. However, I do believe the House and Senate will have enough votes to save the Superferry. Governor Lingle will be in debt to the Leg this upcoming legislative session. She's put herself in a very vunerable position and I'm sure the powers that be at the Capitol will take advantage of the situation.

                      Comment


                      • #86
                        Re: Hawaii Superferry - Chapter 7

                        Originally posted by craig foo View Post
                        Neither Lingle nor Superferry want ALL of their doings to brought to the attention of a heretofore well-deceived public.
                        Craig (and the rest of you) - what do you think are the chances that there would ever be any kind of investigation into how this deal came together, fell apart, whatever? I don't seem to be hearing the voices calling for the State to open up and be more transparent.

                        I know that State government is a well-entrenched, highly self-protective, "old boy's network" in Hawai`i - doesn't matter if it's Dem or GOP - but I wonder if the newspapers would be the ones to dig the story out? I still remember how shocking it was to read the "Broken Trust" series a few years back - and that was another institution that many thought would be too insular to crack.

                        Comment


                        • #87
                          Re: Hawaii Superferry - Chapter 7

                          Originally posted by Keanu View Post
                          The Governor will not convene a special session if there is no concurrence by the House and Senate. However, I do believe the House and Senate will have enough votes to save the Superferry. Governor Lingle will be in debt to the Leg this upcoming legislative session.
                          Few people with money are going to babysit their Lexus, Mercedes, or high end vehicle for four or more hours on the Superferry from Kauai to Oahu, or from Oahu to Kauai just so they can use and park their lovely vehicle in a relatively foreign place...then babysit (ie, essentially spend another day above) their personal vehicle on a return trip.

                          Working class blokes like myself on Kauai are sure not going to be able to take more than a few days off from work to go by way of Superferry to Oahu, or to Maui via Oahu, or to Hawaii Island via Oahu. A round trip with personal vehicle would waste two days just preparing for, and doing transit on the ferry...and that would be if everything went smoothly!

                          All of the talk about a beautiful view from the ferry while traversing the channel is laughable, even if it were daytime, which it won't be if Superferry crosses the channel from Kauai to Oahu as they planned to do, arriving in Oahu from Kauai around midnight. Some view! Three hours of pitch black and 20 minutes of Honolulu lights...if all goes smoothly, of course....may as well sleep (somewhere?) in one's car until daylight a few hours later. Why keep relatives past midnight or pay for a room for the tailend of a day's worth of occupancy?

                          The point here is that there is next to zero reason for any socio-economic class of Kauaians to use the ferry, so Superferry would not be generating significant revenue from that angle.

                          When it reportedly costs the Superferry gangsters at least $650,000 per week when the boat is sitting idle, how much more will it costs when it is operating (r and m, and drinking fuel like a jet plane, but averaging far less than a tenth of a jet's speed) at less than capacity and paying user fees to the State?

                          For years to come Superferry could avoid paying State and Federal taxes given all of the write-offs they are amassing to date, including no doubt the interests on their loans and bonds. Taxes they don't pay, citizens and businesses have to make up for.

                          So, from the beginning Superferry has been a corporate/military welfare case, and if allowed to service itself in Hawaii, Superferry can only continue to suck its sustenance from an inexcusably gullible and misled citizenry. And marine Life? What does the majority of Honolulu residents care about that? Apparently nada, nothing.

                          Comment


                          • #88
                            Re: Hawaii Superferry - Chapter 7

                            Originally posted by Miulang View Post
                            Garibaldi wasn't kidding when he said it was a big disappointment for the people of Hawai'i. Miulang
                            Only the people of the ISLAND STATE of Hawaii would want to restrict themselves to the airplane monopoly. No alternatives for small businesses, emergencies etc.

                            Hawaii is run by monkeys and the people who elected them deserve everything they got over the past 50 years.

                            Comment


                            • #89
                              Re: Hawaii Superferry - Chapter 7

                              Originally posted by Leo Lakio View Post
                              I know that State government is a well-entrenched, highly self-protective, "old boy's network" in Hawai`i - doesn't matter if it's Dem or GOP -
                              What matters is that it has been an essential one party town for 200 years. Hawaiian Monarchy to Republican Haole to Plantation Asian Democrat. No check, No balance, No problem for lucky you live Hawaii.

                              Comment


                              • #90
                                Re: Hawaii Superferry - Chapter 7

                                Originally posted by Keanu View Post
                                The Governor will not convene a special session if there is no concurrence by the House and Senate. However, I do believe the House and Senate will have enough votes to save the Superferry. Governor Lingle will be in debt to the Leg this upcoming legislative session. She's put herself in a very vunerable position and I'm sure the powers that be at the Capitol will take advantage of the situation.
                                Lingle is near to being a lame duck if she is not already. She has leaped at the chances to exercise her gubernatorial perogatives for dubious interests. This Superferry poison-pill for Honolulu's outer islands and for her and Kim's Stryker brigade expected infusion of monies and influence in the state's economy,,,,combined with her random drug testing of teachers pay-raise scheme has exposed Lingle's true political character. When she once said that Bush is her idea of a great leader she exposed herself as a true believer of most all of the values that are wrong for the United States. And she has/is attempting to irrevocably stamp such wrongs on Hawaii...but to her of course, they are not wrongs, they are rights: such as U.S. corporation rights, U.S. military rights, U.S. federal rights, U.S. right-wing rights.

                                Why should our State Democratic controlled legislature give a damn about Lingle and her wishes. She has proven herself to be a pawn of interests contrary to the well-being of too many of us.

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