IBEW on Strike

[salmoned]

Re: IBEW on Strike

808shooter, you don't seem to see it very clearly or call it very well. HECO management was represented at every negotiating meeting. If they weren't, there would not have been a meeting, by definition.

As I believe I have already explained, management and employee compensation are one and the same to investors and customers - the two notional groups of employees (along with facilities, etc.) comprise a single business entity. We, as customers and/or investors, should properly focus on how well that entity improves efficiency and reliability. Calling a strike directly following numerous unresolved power outages promoted neither goal and was quite the opposite of a good faith gesture on the part of the Union to customers, to investors and to 'management.'

[808shooter]

Re: IBEW on Strike

808shooter, you don't seem to see it very clearly or call it very well. HECO management was represented at every negotiating meeting. If they weren't, there would not have been a meeting, by definition.

As I believe I have already explained, management and employee compensation are one and the same to investors and customers - the two notional groups of employees (along with facilities, etc.) comprise a single business entity. We, as customers and/or investors, should properly focus on how well that entity improves efficiency and reliability. Calling a strike directly following numerous unresolved power outages promoted neither goal and was quite the opposite of a good faith gesture on the part of the Union to customers, to investors and to 'management.'

believe me buddy, you don't need to explain business to me. and i strongly disagree with a few of the things you are stating.

1. I misspoke, I meant HECO president was only at one of forty or so negotiating sessions. That to me shows a lack of leadership and commitment to resolving a serious situation. If you read the article I posted on page one:

Lance Miyake, business manager and financial secretary of IBEW, said Hawaiian Electric President Dick Rosenblum has attended just one of about 40 negotiating sessions the company has held with the union over the last six months. HECO officials said Rosenblum was on the Big Island visiting Hawaii Electric Light Company Friday and unable to attend negotiations or a late-afternoon company news conference once the strike got underway.

2. Employee compensation and executive compensation are not the same to investors. If I see an executive management team taking home big bonuses while underperforming in the only metric that investors care about: maximizing shareholder value, that is a problem to me as an investor.

As a customer, do I care about shareholder value? No I care about reliability and cost. Maybe if the unions get paid 20% more than market rates how much does that affect my electrical rates? how much does these guys feeling like they value their jobs and excel at maintaining this critical service mean to me? maybe the 20-30% premium is worth it to me as a customer? whatever the premium is, labor cost is only a part of the cost to deliver electricity to my home.

3. To pass judge the actions of the union without knowing all of the facts is ignorant. You cannot assume that the union is being unreasonable based upon your personal bias. It may have been unreasonable for them to call a strike after six months without a new agreement but I don't know all of the facts - and the original intent of my first post was to point out that there are two sides to every story or situation.

If there were no alternatives to restoring electrical service to the island then yes their actions may be unreasonable but in those cases, there are usually restrictions on key personnel not being able to strike. Police, fire, air traffic controllers cannot strike. why does the legislature allow IBEW? must be some restriction to protect public good.

there is a lot that we are in the dark about yet throwing around "it's the union's fault" is irresponsible.

[salmoned]

Re: IBEW on Strike

It seems you just can't open your eyes and see what's been presented. Clearly, I've pointed out that there are at least 4 sides in this matter, not only the two you're so proud of having 'pointed out' early on.

Your ideas on leadership are not worth discussing, I doubt you've much knowledge or experience in leading a corporation. Likewise, your ideas concerning investors. However, I strongly disagree with your pronouncement of customers not caring about shareholder value. They may be ignorant of their interest, but see how much they care when rates go up [due to increased costs of financing for the company] (yeah, I know most won't really understand a thing about it).

Why do you presume I don't know all the pertinent facts in this matter? I may not be authorized to share them, but I know 'em. I only 'pass judge(sic)' the union's timing of the strike, I've made no comment concerning the merits of this dispute. Even you must agree that the union chose when to call the strike - they bear full responsibility for the timing of that decision and all the resulting ramifications.

[808shooter]

Re: IBEW on Strike

However, I strongly disagree with your pronouncement of customers not caring about shareholder value. They may be ignorant of their interest, but see how much they care when rates go up [due to increased costs of financing for the company] (yeah, I know most won't really understand a thing about it).

i'd like to hear how a customer cares about shareholder value. some of the factors that affect things that are important to customers and shareholder value are the same but customers don't care about shareholder value.

shareholder cares about cost and reliability. shareholders care about stock price going up and to a lesser extent dividends.

my ideas aren't worth discussing?

1. How do you know all of the pertinent facts? Are you a HECO employee? Part of the management team? One of the negotiators? I know you aren't one of the union. If not of the preceding, you can't know all of the pertinent facts. Ahh unless you've got a "friend" in the know. Then I suppose you've got all the facts, just can't share the details. Edify us with the virtues of the HECO management team to the best of your ability.

2. could you list the fours sides here? this isn't a square. I'm not proud of presenting the unions side. I found a story that shed more details on how the union and HECO management got to that point. I thought it might affect public opinion on this board. but really, you gotta tell me about the other two sides.

3. you're the one being an ass to this Matapule poster. I can be an ass sometimes to so if someone wants to take it to me, fine. I think i'll take time out of my day to poke holes in your less than well-thought-out and filled-with-logical-fallacy posts. we're going to have some lively discussions here braddah.

4. yes union chose timing of the strike. it worked didn't it? what were the ramifications? i hope the timing of the strike brought to light the management's cavalier attitude to the resolution of the strike. I only assume that because of the length of time it took to finally resolve. if you can shed light on this, feel free. if I'm wrong, I have a good appetite and can eat a lot of crow.

5. tell me again what finance/investing experience you have?

Management and managed are one and the same from my perspective and as a business unit are failing to provide competitive rates and competitive rates of return. Increased cost efficiency is the 'side' for which I'm 'rooting'.

what % of HECO's operating expense is actually labor? If wages increase by $5/hour, how does that affect electricity cost? I bet you don't even know. It could be that it is a small component of the cost of a kilowatt hour. maybe is a big component but I'd say that is the first thing to assess.

squeeze labor or invest in green energy? windmills, waste to energy, geothermal, there are many alternative sources of power being used to diversify our current capacity. wouldn't exploring one of these avenues make a bigger impact to your "increased cost efficiency"

6. tell you what, you post and be civil then so will I. we'll see where this discussion leads and see who has the sharper analytical skills and business acumen.