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Obama v. The Birthers

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  • Obama v. The Birthers

    One is for '63 and the other, Obama's for 61.....no wonder people are so suspicious! Also...if Obama really was born here....why no hospital named? However....just please compare these and let's settle this once and for all. Meanwhile, I'm asking to see the certificates of a couple of friends that are in their late forties, too.

    Obama's..

    http://i305.photobucket.com/albums/n...ertificate.jpg

    This guy's that he also posted online...

    http://snarkybytes.com/?p=521
    Stop being lost in thought where our problems thrive.~

  • #2
    Re: Why do these Hawaii birth certificates look different?~

    there is a difference between what you get for yourself and how the records are shown now. When my daughter was born in 1968, her birth certificate looked like the one you have posted. If I go to get a copy today, it will look like the one posted on Obama's website. There is no mystery. Hawaii has changed the way they release information. I really think that those who are trying to prove that Obama has some problem with his birth records are just grasping at straws. He has school records from the 5th grade forward showing he lived here, was a student here. There are probably other records of him in public school. If HE says he was born at Kapiolani Hospital, then I don't have any reason to question him.

    I'm not necessarily a fan of his, but really - lets just get some sanity here. What is the point of this guy from NY making all these problems and filing a lawsuit? There are more than enough records of Obama to verify his citizenship.
    "Democracy is the only system that persists in asking the powers that be whether they are the powers that ought to be."
    – Sydney J. Harris

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    • #3
      Re: Why do these Hawaii birth certificates look different?~

      The "Obama" birth certificate is a modern duplicate made from Hawaii state birth records, which are computerized. Note that at the bottom is the word "laser," indicating, I assume, how it was printed. Unless the state's birth records were hacked by a vast right-wing conspiracy, it's a legitimate duplicate.

      AND -- in the files of both daily newspapers, in hard copies and on microfilm in every state library, in the BIRTHS, DEATHS and MARRIAGES listings for the first week of August, 1961, there is a listing for the birth of Barack Hussein Obama Jr. Gosh, how did the conspirators manage that?
      Burl Burlingame
      "Art is never finished, only abandoned." -- Leonardo Da Vinci
      honoluluagonizer.com

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      • #4
        Re: Why do these Hawaii birth certificates look different?

        Karen: I've seen a few different looks for legitimate birth, death, marriage and divorce certificates from the State of Hawaii depending upon the time that the certificates were certified and given out. Anapuni and Buzz are correct. Also, the McCain/Palin campaign has not hesitated to sling even dubious allegations around and yet neither McCain nor Palin has raised the issue publicly as far as I know ~ do you really think that they (or Palin, at least) would hesitate to be shouting it from the rooftops if there was any shred of a reasonable doubt about Obama's citizenship or the legitimacy of his birth certificate? There are reasons why intelligent people might not want to vote for Obama but this isn't one of them.

        Here, FactCheck.Org investigated the Obama citizenship issue.

        http://www.factcheck.org/askfactchec...disclosed.html

        "Q: Has Obama's birth certificate been disclosed?
        Is Barack Obama a "natural-born citizen"? It is hard to believe he could get this far in the electoral process and not have a sufficient answer to this question, I admit, but has his birth certificate been disclosed?


        A: Yes. His campaign made a copy public after speculation by conservative bloggers that he might not be a "natural-born citizen."
        We asked for and received a copy from the Obama campaign. It is too large to display full size on this page, but you may click on this link to see a copy of the document just as we received it. /snip"

        http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2...n_the_usa.html

        "The truth about Obama's birth certificate.
        Summary
        In June, the Obama campaign released a digitally scanned image of his birth certificate to quell speculative charges that he might not be a natural-born citizen. But the image prompted more blog-based skepticism about the document's authenticity. And recently, author Jerome Corsi, whose book attacks Obama, said in a TV interview that the birth certificate the campaign has is "fake."

        We beg to differ. FactCheck.org staffers have now seen, touched, examined and photographed the original birth certificate. We conclude that it meets all of the requirements from the State Department for proving U.S. citizenship. Claims that the document lacks a raised seal or a signature are false. We have posted high-resolution photographs of the document as "supporting documents" to this article. Our conclusion: Obama was born in the U.S.A. just as he has always said./snip

        In fact, the conspiracy would need to be even deeper than our colleagues realized. In late July, a researcher looking to dig up dirt on Obama instead found a birth announcement that had been published in the Honolulu Advertiser on Sunday, Aug. 13, 1961: /snip

        The announcement was posted by a pro-Hillary Clinton blogger who grudgingly concluded that Obama "likely" was born Aug. 4, 1961 in Honolulu.


        Of course, it's distantly possible that Obama's grandparents may have planted the announcement just in case their grandson needed to prove his U.S. citizenship in order to run for president someday. We suggest that those who choose to go down that path should first equip themselves with a high-quality tinfoil hat. The evidence is clear: Barack Obama was born in the U.S.A./snip

        When we asked [the Hawaii Department of Health] about the security borders, which look different from some other examples of Hawaii certifications of live birth, Kurt said "The borders are generated each time a certified copy is printed. A citation located on the bottom left hand corner of the certificate indicates which date the form was revised." He also confirmed that the information in the short form birth certificate is sufficient to prove citizenship for "all reasonable purposes."
        Last edited by Adri; October 18, 2008, 11:57 PM.

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Why do these Hawaii birth certificates look different?~

          Originally posted by buzz1941 View Post
          AND -- in the files of both daily newspapers, in hard copies and on microfilm in every state library, in the BIRTHS, DEATHS and MARRIAGES listings for the first week of August, 1961, there is a listing for the birth of Barack Hussein Obama Jr. Gosh, how did the conspirators manage that?
          Simple. Obama's obviously been a Manchurian candidate from the time he was born.

          Now, how many people can you think of with that much money, that much time? First rate counterfeiter. Patience. The technical skill to rig it all.

          Gentleman, I can think of only one man. Wo Fat.

          Book 'em, Burl!
          This post may contain an opinion that may conflict with your opinion. Do not take it personal. Polite discussion of difference of opinion is welcome.

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Why do these Hawaii birth certificates look different?

            What concerned me is that both fellas got their copies much later in life...the first got his in '98 and on the back of Obama's it looks as if it says 2007...not sure but suffice it to say both are copies many years "after the fact."

            Anapuni, I am so dang glad to hear that Obama claims he was born at Kapiolani because I haven't read or heard him say it. When or where did you hear him say it, or is this hearsay? Gal, him having gone to school from the fifth grade here does nothing for proof of being born here. However, I want this subject settled, no partisanship just truth. I still don't wish for either guy to be my own president. I hear ya.

            Adri, it is not the subtle differences of the documents but the lack of information by far...on Obama's copy compared to the first guy, and yet both of them got their copies not ten years apart. No signature, attending physician, name of where birth transpired...Obama's is severely lacking of information compared to the first guy, yet both are only two years apart in age.

            No, people are not "grasping at straws" when comparing the huge differences in these two modern documents of guys born two years apart. This is why I asked here because we have such a diverse group of folks here.

            Thanks, y'all~
            Last edited by Karen; October 19, 2008, 12:16 AM.
            Stop being lost in thought where our problems thrive.~

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Why do these Hawaii birth certificates look different?

              __________________
              Stop being lost in thought where our problems thrive.~


              Digging the quote Karen - more than this thread!!! I'll remember it the next time I am lost in my thoughts
              stay forever young

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              • #8
                Re: Why do these Hawaii birth certificates look different?

                There's pure magic in awareness of it. Cool to read ya and I bet you're "a kindred spirit."
                Stop being lost in thought where our problems thrive.~

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Why do these Hawaii birth certificates look different?

                  Karen, you have always been one of the most ignorant of all posters on HT. Please, try not to make yourself anymore silly than you have already proven to be. If you can find ANY evidence that Obama was not born here, in the United States, please post it. Otherwise - just shut up.
                  "Democracy is the only system that persists in asking the powers that be whether they are the powers that ought to be."
                  – Sydney J. Harris

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Why do these Hawaii birth certificates look different?

                    Originally posted by anapuni808 View Post
                    Karen, you have always been one of the most ignorant of all posters on HT. Please, try not to make yourself anymore silly that you have already proven to be. If you can find ANY evidence that Obama was not born here, in the United States, please post it. Otherwise - just shut up.
                    Aloha Anapuni808
                    stay forever young

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Why do these Hawaii birth certificates look different?

                      Originally posted by Karen View Post
                      What concerned me is that both fellas got their copies much later in life...the first got his in '98 and on the back of Obama's it looks as if it says 2007...not sure but suffice it to say both are copies many years "after the fact."

                      Anapuni, I am so dang glad to hear that Obama claims he was born at Kapiolani because I haven't read or heard him say it. When or where did you hear him say it, or is this hearsay? Gal, him having gone to school from the fifth grade here does nothing for proof of being born here. However, I want this subject settled, no partisanship just truth. I still don't wish for either guy to be my own president. I hear ya.

                      Adri, it is not the subtle differences of the documents but the lack of information by far...on Obama's copy compared to the first guy, and yet both of them got their copies not ten years apart. No signature, attending physician, name of where birth transpired...Obama's is severely lacking of information compared to the first guy, yet both are only two years apart in age.

                      No, people are not "grasping at straws" when comparing the huge differences in these two modern documents of guys born two years apart. This is why I asked here because we have such a diverse group of folks here.

                      Thanks, y'all~

                      Karen,

                      10 years is a long time and the form of the birth certificate changed. Again, it doesn't have to do with when they were born so much as when they got their certificates certified and issued. I think this part from the factcheck link may explain it:

                      http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2...n_the_usa.html


                      "snip The certificate has all the elements the State Department requires for proving citizenship to obtain a U.S. passport: "your full name, the full name of your parent(s), date and place of birth, sex, date the birth record was filed, and the seal or other certification of the official custodian of such records." The names, date and place of birth, and filing date are all evident on the scanned version, and you can see the seal above.

                      The document is a "certification of birth," also known as a short-form birth certificate. The long form is drawn up by the hospital and includes additional information such as birth weight and parents' hometowns. The short form is printed by the state and draws from a database with fewer details. The Hawaii Department of Health's birth record request form does not give the option to request a photocopy of your long-form birth certificate, but their short form has enough information to be acceptable to the State Department. We tried to ask the Hawaii DOH why they only offer the short form, among other questions, but they have not given a response. /snip"

                      Although DoH didn't provide an explanation, I suspect the answer has to do with protecting people's privacy and trying to prevent identity theft (which has been the trend in the past few years ~ such as the new notary requirements, the new Land Court procedures, and the relatively new requirements to seal or redact or avoid putting into the public records certain documents in court such as death, birth, marriage, and divorce certificates and people's social security numbers).

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Why do these Hawaii birth certificates look different?

                        This is a tired game.

                        It's been played on McCain too:

                        http://constitutionallyright.com/200...-born-citizen/

                        It had to go to court decisions to prove it...

                        http://volokh.com/files/robinson.1.pdf

                        http://dockets.justia.com/docket/cou...case_id-32089/



                        So who's claim to being 'naturally born' is more tenuous?

                        Meh...it's a non-issue.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Why do these Hawaii birth certificates look different?

                          Originally posted by anapuni808 View Post
                          Karen, you have always been one of the most ignorant of all posters on HT. Please, try not to make yourself anymore silly than you have already proven to be. If you can find ANY evidence that Obama was not born here, in the United States, please post it. Otherwise - just shut up.
                          Ouch...
                          Possibly this should've been taken to PM.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Why do these Hawaii birth certificates look different?

                            Karen - I want to apologize for the harshness of my posting directed at you. I don't apologize for what I said, but I could have found a more tactful way of phrasing it. I'm just really tired of this campaign, and all the nastiness associated with it. and of course, all the ignorance in so many statements that get made. As someone just pointed out - McCain was not born in the actual US, but under conditions where he was born as a citizen. Both campaigns have left this issue alone and I just think we should too.

                            (this posting was not prompted by TutuSue's suggestion - I was composing it while hers was being posted)
                            Last edited by anapuni808; October 19, 2008, 09:56 AM.
                            "Democracy is the only system that persists in asking the powers that be whether they are the powers that ought to be."
                            – Sydney J. Harris

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Why do these Hawaii birth certificates look different?

                              The way I see it, there are powerful people who have a vested interest in knowing whether Obama is a natural born citizen or not: The officials who administer the election. The Republicans. The Democrats. McCain's campaign. The Clinton campaign. Heck, even Obama's own campaign wants to know. It costs a lot of money and many political favors to get a candidate into the President seat. These people aren't gonna waste their investment on a lame duck.

                              I suppose the fear is they are so powerful they can pull off a grand conspiracy. Maybe they can, but we all know how uncooperative human beings can be. All it takes is one person with their own agenda.

                              Then you have all those journalists who are hungry for a Pulitzer. If you have people willing to risk their lives to break a story in Iraq, you'll have people crazy enough to blow the lid on an illegal President.

                              To me it just seems like too much of a risk. There are easier ways to manipulate the public. Trust me, we peons have been screwed for a long time and will continue to be screwed, even with a legit President.


                              BTW, if anyone doesn't trust their new $20 bills, I'll trade you one of my authentic green bills for two of your fake colorful ones.
                              Last edited by MyopicJoe; October 19, 2008, 10:52 AM.
                              "By concealing your desires, you may trick people into being cruel about the wrong thing." --Steven Aylett, Fain the Sorcerer
                              "You gotta get me to the tall corn." --David Mamet, Spartan
                              "
                              Amateurs talk technology, professionals talk conditions." --(unknown)

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