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Mr. Abercrombie has the floor

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  • #76
    Re: Mr. Abercrombie has the floor

    Originally posted by alohabear View Post
    I see Tim as the BIGGEST supporter of Hawaiians in this thread. I see his point as being that the Kanaka Maoli as equal as any other race. They don't need to feel "less" than others. Mr. Abercrombie makes it seem they are "less" so they they need special programs to help them. If the Hawaiian people are really as "PROUD" a race as the PSA's on TV suggest they would shut why Mr. Abercrombie says about them down. My part Hawaiian son is proud of ALL his cultures, he makes good grades in(public) school, and one day will be a success because of the values I(and my family) taught him. He doesn't need Goverment help to get to his goals, his Ohana will get him there.

    The only thing Tim supports is his ego.

    Do tell why Hawaiians should shut Abercrombie down? Do you honestly have a grasp of the intital topic of this discussion? it certainly doesn't seem like it. All the bill does is reauthorize loans provided under Title VI of the Native American Housing Assistance and Self-Determination Act of 1996 for fiscal years 2008 through 2012 and would expand eligibility to include the Department of Hawaiian Home Lands. He is doing his job as a Congressional Representative from the State of Hawaii. What part of section 2, article X11 of the Hawaii State Constitution don't you understand?

    I hope your child makes the most of his education because in order to succeed, he'll have to be smarter than you and you've proven that you certainly aren't the sharpest knife in the kitchen.
    Last edited by Keanu; April 1, 2007, 12:39 PM.

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    • #77
      Re: Mr. Abercrombie has the floor

      We are still waiting for you Keanu to answer Tim's question....
      What is it about SOME Hawaiians that makes them naturally unable to compete and make it in the world? Mr. Abercrombie knows the answer, but won't return my email. Keanu knows, but won't say. I have a feeling Waioli Kai knows. And perhaps even TuNnL knows.
      Well... speak up smart guy! And no spin on the answer please.
      Listen to KEITH AND THE GIRLsigpic

      Stupid people come in all flavors-buzz1941
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      • #78
        Re: Mr. Abercrombie has the floor

        Aloha Alohabear,

        First of all, thanks for the props. I truly believe that race has no bearing on a person's ability to make a go of their lives. Ignorance is not defined by the color of one's skin. Which brings me to Keanu.

        We should not badger Keanu too hard. He has placed himself in a position of trying to explain why Hawaiians can't cut it. Were I a Congressman, I would quiz Mr. Abercrombie on the same question, and not let him squirm out of the answer. But I don't expect anything close to a rational explanation from Keanu. And he should not feel obligated to give one.

        The fact that he refuses to change his mind about the issue is the deeper problem. The entitlement mentality depends upon the expectation of failure. In fact, anything other than utter failure is viewed with a cynical eye by the hard core liberal philosophers on this forum. You must understand that dependency and failure is the cornerstone of any liberal platform. That is the essence of the modern Democratic Party politics in America today.
        FutureNewsNetwork.com
        Energy answers are already here.

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        • #79
          Re: Mr. Abercrombie has the floor

          If I may make a slight adaptation to your posting, Tim --- it certainly changes the context, but I suspect you will be in agreement:
          Originally posted by timkona View Post
          The fact that he refuses to change his mind about the issue is the deeper problem. ... That is the essence of the modern ... Party politics in America today.

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          • #80
            Re: Mr. Abercrombie has the floor

            Say what Leo. Are you saying that both sides of the political coin are captivated by failure and dependency. Cuz I don't see it that way at all.

            PS - Have you ever known me to let somebody sneak out of a logic trap that I have set for them in the way that I just let Keanu off the hook? I must be getting nice in my old age.
            Last edited by timkona; April 2, 2007, 08:30 AM. Reason: ps.
            FutureNewsNetwork.com
            Energy answers are already here.

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            • #81
              Re: Mr. Abercrombie has the floor

              Originally posted by timkona View Post
              Say what Leo. Are you saying that both sides of the political coin are captivated by failure and dependency. Cuz I don't see it that way at all.
              No, sir. That's why I removed that section. Rather, I was suggesting that both parties are encumbered by an unwillingness to allow flexibility on issues, to "change their minds" as it were. That's where I suspected you would be in agreement.

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              • #82
                level the playing field ,, Re: Mr. Abercrombie has the floor

                .
                ==tkona --The entitlement mentality depends upon the expectation of failure. In fact, anything other than utter failure is viewed with a cynical eye by the hard core liberal philosophers on this forum. You must understand that dependency and failure is the cornerstone of any liberal platform. That is the essence of the modern Democratic Party politics in America today. --

                This following definition is to counter the claims, assertions, presumptions emanating from some posters' infertile narrowminded perspectives:
                ' Entitlement is a guarantee of access to benefits because of rights, or by agreement through law. It can also refer, in a more casual sense to someone's belief that they are deserving of some particular reward or benefit. It is often used as a negative term in popular parlance (i.e. a 'sense of entitlement'). The legal term, however, carries no value judgement, it simply denotes a right granted. '

                Thus it is that "the entitlement mentality" exists most predominantly in those persons who have already retired or expect to soon retire with lifetime income flowing into their non-productive lives out of the overdrawn coffers of the corporatist state, aka bankruptUS America. How such individuals' entitlement mentality "depends upon the expectation of failure" is a mystery to me, but perhaps the tkona logic can explain it, although he has yet to confront another of his contradictory assertions where he says: == " No to special rights. Yes to a level playing field." == Yet he doesn't seem to want to start with doing away with corporate America's inherited wealth assurances allowing that everybody is born equal, has equal access to health care, education, financing, and so on.
                Last edited by waioli kai; April 2, 2007, 12:58 PM.

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                • #83
                  Re: Mr. Abercrombie has the floor

                  Originally posted by timkona View Post
                  Say what Leo. Are you saying that both sides of the political coin are captivated by failure and dependency. Cuz I don't see it that way at all.

                  PS - Have you ever known me to let somebody sneak out of a logic trap that I have set for them in the way that I just let Keanu off the hook? I must be getting nice in my old age.
                  Trap, Lol, you are far too predictable and I am far too astute to fall into any trap that you could possibly try to set, Tim. You may view yourself as an adversary but I view you as nothing more than a feeble-minded fool who puts far too much validity in his warped perspectives.

                  For the record, I am an independent who votes based on the issues rather than along party lines. I have supported and opposed measures and ideology on both sides. Needless to say (but I'll say it anyway), your labeling of me as a liberal based primarily on these types of topics is extremely laughable. You claim to have all the answers when you don't even know all the questions. Presumptuousness is clearly your virtue, much to the vexation of many on HT I would presume.

                  It seems as though you have much time on your hands so while you patiently wait for my response, you would be well served to read Shakespeare's "The Tempest" even if it will be beyond your level of comprehension.
                  Last edited by Keanu; April 2, 2007, 01:27 PM.

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                  • #84
                    Re: Mr. Abercrombie has the floor

                    Originally posted by alohabear View Post
                    We are still waiting for you Keanu to answer Tim's question....Well... speak up smart guy! And no spin on the answer please.
                    I think it would make me all warm and fuzzy inside to enter into a battle of wits with you but it is against my nature to attack an unarmed individual, and I've already made an exception for Tim.Feel free to ride Tim's coattail though because it makes my task that much easier.

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                    • #85
                      Re: Mr. Abercrombie has the floor

                      Originally posted by Keanu View Post
                      I think it would make me all warm and fuzzy inside to enter into a battle of wits with you but it is against my nature to attack an unarmed individual, and I've already made an exception for Tim.Feel free to ride Tim's coattail though because it makes my task that much easier.
                      Well, it's certainly easier than actually answering the question. In the meantime, please add me to the target list of ignorant unarmed individuals waiting for enlightenment.

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                      • #86
                        Re: Mr. Abercrombie has the floor

                        Go to this link(if you are interested) and learn about Self-ownership.......nuff said!
                        Last edited by alohabear; April 2, 2007, 01:57 PM.
                        Listen to KEITH AND THE GIRLsigpic

                        Stupid people come in all flavors-buzz1941
                        Flickr

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                        • #87
                          Re: Mr. Abercrombie has the floor

                          Originally posted by glossyp View Post
                          Well, it's certainly easier than actually answering the question. In the meantime, please add me to the target list of ignorant unarmed individuals waiting for enlightenment.
                          Added

                          This was Tim's original comment "Now please, somebody explain to me what it is, precisely, that makes Hawaiians unable to compete." This is a presumption veiled as a question. For the record, I don't think Hawaiians are UNABLE to complete. While this may have been an issue in the early 1900's, it isn't an issue now, no matter how hard the jester tries to make it one. That's why I asked him what he'd do with DHHL land. I should add that his answer was utterly ridiculous, not that I was suprised. He intends to solve a self- perceived problem by creating another. Perhaps he'd be better off admitting that capitalism has played a large role in promoting racism especially socioeconomic racism.

                          HHL does not violate fair housing laws as Tim believes.The Hawaiian Homes commission act was enacted by congress in 1921 and subsequent congressional legislation dealing with indigenous groups is political, not racial, in character and therefore is neither discriminatory nor unconstitutional.

                          My reply to Tim is forthcoming.
                          Last edited by Keanu; April 2, 2007, 03:44 PM.

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                          • #88
                            Re: Mr. Abercrombie has the floor

                            Originally posted by alohabear View Post
                            Go to this link(if you are interested) and learn about Self-ownership.......nuff said!

                            Good in theory but hardly practical in the real world.

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                            • #89
                              Re: Mr. Abercrombie has the floor

                              Originally posted by Keanu View Post
                              HHL does not violate fair housing laws as Tim believes.The Hawaiian Homes commission act was enacted by congress in 1921 and subsequent congressional legislation dealing with indigenous groups is political, not racial, in character and therefore is neither discriminatory nor unconstitutional.
                              HHCA doesn't fit well within the current legal framework. The intent and spirit of the act are unquestionable, although it contains phrasing, ideas and terms that would be best left behind. In a way I'm reminded of Pauahi's Will which, even by the standards of the day, contained some terrible practices (like having the trustees be chosen by the HI Supreme court), as well as vague terms open to interpretation (never good in a will), an interesting sort of self-racism combined with religion (that whole bit about sending boys and girls to school to become, respectively, blue collar workers and nurses) and little or no enforcement provisions to ensure that trustees performed their fiduciary duties diligently.

                              Hmmmm sounds a LOT like HHCA ('cept that bit about workers and nurses and the racism was from Americans, so take out the self- bit). Tribal status is right out since the Hawaiians weren't a tribe and lack the treaties that Native American tribes have that promised stuff other than "friendship" (I read the treaties the US made with the Kingdom, and they're worthless fluff). The spirit and intent of the HHCA should be honored, but the mechanics of how that spirit and intent are currently conveyed should be gutted as it requires the use of a great number of anachronistic practices (like blood quantum!) which in turn is creating the social and political friction that provokes non-entitled peoples into trying to dismantle the privileged institutions that exist as a result of HHCA and the Will. This poison pill of managing Hawaiian resources for Hawaiians is one we would do well to expel from government and return responsibility to those to whom the land was ostensibly given (see my comments on previous page).

                              Plus I can't WAIT to see the ruckus that ensues when the Hawaiians start fighting over who is the most Hawaiian, or the most royal, or what have you, when it comes to who ultimately winds up holding the hot potato (the Ceded Lands).

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                              • #90
                                Re: Mr. Abercrombie has the floor

                                Perhaps Hawaiians need to be saved from cheesy gravy burgers.
                                Burl Burlingame
                                "Art is never finished, only abandoned." -- Leonardo Da Vinci
                                honoluluagonizer.com

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