Mr. Abercrombie has the floor

[Keanu]

Re: Mr. Abercrombie has the floor

But in this case, try Orwell: "He who controls the past, controls the future; and he who controls the present, controls the past."

Very befitting piece, thanks for sharing.

[Keanu]

Re: Mr. Abercrombie has the floor

No one should have special rights. If you give one group then give them all . How about Japanese interns, relatives of former slaves, Eskimos! Where does it end?

Your argument is flawed and your comments about slaves and Eskimos, impertinent to the discussion.

Japanese interns received their apology as well as $20,000 in reparation from the U.S. Government. Eskimos receive Oil money. Hawaiians received nothing but the theft of their culture and their lands. Hawaiian programs are, at the very least, a form of reparation.

[Keanu]

Re: Mr. Abercrombie has the floor

No to special rights
Yes to a level playing field

Nice oxymoronic statement there timmy.

[TuNnL]

Re: Mr. Abercrombie has the floor

Tune your sets to C-SPAN, peeps. Today we find out how all this played out.

[Deep Thought]

Re: Mr. Abercrombie has the floor

I didn't address your initial question because not only do I object to the inclusion of the word "desirable" but I think the question itself is irrelevent as it relates to Hawaiians only programs.

How is it irrelevant? As far as the rest of the United States is concerned the question itself is about exceptions to Runyon. I'm not saying that the lands held in trust (I might add, irresponsibly) for the Hawaiian people should not benefit Hawaiians, they should. But there has got to be a way to get Runyon out of the discussion. In any case the Overthrow resembles more closely Texas than First Nations, and you don't see people asking for privileges and entitlements for the original Mexican inhabitants.

How can you not address the issue of whether or not the current approach to Hawaiian entitlement includes racial discrimination? Many people suffered horribly and some even died to get racial discrimination out of the law, how can their sacrifice be so casually dismissed?

[alohabear]

Re: Mr. Abercrombie has the floor

Your argument is flawed and your comments about slaves and Eskimos, impertinent to the discussion.

Japanese interns received their apology as well as $20,000 in reparation from the U.S. Government. Eskimos receive Oil money. Hawaiians received nothing but the theft of their culture and their lands. Hawaiian programs are, at the very least, a form of reparation.

$20,000 in reparation, BIG deal! Did you know how much land was taken away from the Japanese interns?

Japanese Americans owned 12,726 acres of farmland in California. In 1942, 110,000 Japanese Americans living on the West Coast of the United States were relocated to ten internment camps. It took another forty years for the US government to recognize the violations of this population's constitutional rights.

When you think about it, ALL the races at the time(of the overthrow) were part of the Kingdom, so shouldn't we ALL benefit from the Goverment?

[joshuatree]

Re: Mr. Abercrombie has the floor

What ever happened to the 40 acres and a mule owed to the freed black slaves?

[alohabear]

Re: Mr. Abercrombie has the floor

Hawaiians received nothing but the theft of their culture

Culture is never stolen. It is lost and something lost can always be found and brought back. The government can't do that, only the PEOPLE can.

What I never hear is that no one ever says that Kamehameha and the other Alii made a BIG mistake letting the first "visitors" to the islands stay. Admit it was the wrong thing to do. That by doing that, the Alii doomed the Kanaka Maoli and it's future. if Hawaii was kept "pure" like Japan, it would be a different Hawaii today. They had the numbers to send back any unwanted visitors to the islands , but instead gave them land to teach the people about GOD. Rejecting their culture, over Christianity , giving land for guns and cannons to defeat the enemy. All for power. Now the keiki of the land must fight for rights they claim they deserve,but would have been different if the King said you can visit,but go home.

[Keanu]

Re: Mr. Abercrombie has the floor

How is it irrelevant? As far as the rest of the United States is concerned the question itself is about exceptions to Runyon. I'm not saying that the lands held in trust (I might add, irresponsibly) for the Hawaiian people should not benefit Hawaiians, they should. But there has got to be a way to get Runyon out of the discussion. In any case the Overthrow resembles more closely Texas than First Nations, and you don't see people asking for privileges and entitlements for the original Mexican inhabitants.

How can you not address the issue of whether or not the current approach to Hawaiian entitlement includes racial discrimination? Many people suffered horribly and some even died to get racial discrimination out of the law, how can their sacrifice be so casually dismissed?

So now you're trying to tell me that Runyon Vs. mccrary is relevent to the Hawaiians Homes Commision Act and Kamehameha Schools? How so?

You are comparing apples to oranges and I find it absurd that you lack the ability to realize the differences between Hawaiian programs and issues such as Runyon vs mccrary.Both the Hawaiian Homes program and Kamehameha Schools were in effect long before these "civil issues" became issues at all. Furthermore, racism is a WASP ideaology.

[TuNnL]

Re: Mr. Abercrombie has the floor

Well, it looks like Rep. Abercrombie can celebrate a victory for now. The second time proved to be a charm. But the measure will surely face vigorous debate again, when the bill passes over to the U.S. Senate for consideration.

[Deep Thought]

Re: Mr. Abercrombie has the floor

So now you're trying to tell me that Runyon Vs. mccrary is relevent to the Hawaiians Homes Commision Act and Kamehameha Schools? How so?

You are comparing apples to oranges and I find it absurd that you lack the ability to realize the differences between Hawaiian programs and issues such as Runyon vs mccrary.Both the Hawaiian Homes program and Kamehameha Schools were in effect long before these "civil issues" became issues at all. Furthermore, racism is a WASP ideaology.

Apples and oranges indeed. It is absolutely relevant to the discussion. The "civil issues" you assert weren't issues were definitely issues to people who suffered from legal discrimination. Do you think that blacks, asians, Jewish, Poles, and Irish people (and a bunch of others no doubt) embraced their limited prospects for advancement? Do you propose that we totally ignore the Hawaii Dem Revolution that threw the plantation owners and Hawaiians out on their okoles for practicing legal racism? Or the tactics employed by plantations (and lunas, that's right Portugese and Hawaiian) to ensure that their supply of cheap workers stayed cheap?

Draw the line in the sand that differentiates a school that exclusively admits caucasians, or WASPs as you like to call them, and Kamehameha Schools, which stipulates a preferential policy (though reality shows us that preferential means ONLY Hawaiians) toward Hawaiians. I think you'll find that it's pretty arbitrary. Much the same could be made of Hawaiian programs that utilize State money.

I know it may not seem like it, but I DON'T oppose Hawaiian programs and Hawaiian education. It is governmental participation and racial exclusivity, and the absence of meaningful discussion within the Hawaiian community about the gravity of the resulting consequences, that makes it so relevant to discuss racism in the context of Hawaiian entitlements, education, and programs.

[waioli kai]

US thieves and murderers' TX Rep. Pete Sessions Re: Mr. Abercrombie has the floor

.

"I urge my colleagues to oppose this rule so that this legislation can be passed in a clear, constitutional way that makes it transparent to the courts, that this is not a back-door attempt to lay the groundwork for other legislation to confer tribal status on the native Hawaiian people," Republican Rep. Pete Sessions of Dallas said. U.S. House Approves Loans For Hawaiian Housing http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/17846000/

So many Texans pissed off that the nation which their forebearers joined in 1845 had not the immoral fiber as did Texans to have effectively exterminated all the peoples of the lands expropriated by their citizens, governments and militias! .... And just to make sure no one gets an upper hand on US thieves and murderers here's Dallas Texas' own Rep. Pete Sessions expressing his party's fears that native people of Hawaii are engaging in "a back-door attempt to lay the groundwork for other legislation to confer tribal status on the native Hawaiian people." "What an incredible horror and terror it would be to recognize surviving native peoples anywhere under U.S. jurisdiction! Native peoples of Tejas? Are you kidding? They are dead and forgotten more than century ago and who misses them? No one! Certainly not us real Texans!! "

[Keanu]

Re: Mr. Abercrombie has the floor

Apples and oranges indeed. It is absolutely relevant to the discussion. The "civil issues" you assert weren't issues were definitely issues to people who suffered from legal discrimination. Do you think that blacks, asians, Jewish, Poles, and Irish people (and a bunch of others no doubt) embraced their limited prospects for advancement?

These issues you reference pertain to discrimination by whites against minorities. Like I mentioned earlier, racism is a WASP ideology. As to your question, some have, some haven't

Do you propose that we totally ignore the Hawaii Dem Revolution that threw the plantation owners and Hawaiians out on their okoles for practicing legal racism? Or the tactics employed by plantations (and lunas, that's right Portugese and Hawaiian) to ensure that their supply of cheap workers stayed cheap?

The Democratic Revolution of 1954 was a result of the politics of resentment, resentment of the "Big 5" companies, not of so called "racist" Hawaiians.

Draw the line in the sand that differentiates a school that exclusively admits caucasians, or WASPs as you like to call them, and Kamehameha Schools, which stipulates a preferential policy (though reality shows us that preferential means ONLY Hawaiians) toward Hawaiians. I think you'll find that it's pretty arbitrary. Much the same could be made of Hawaiian programs that utilize State money.

When Princess Bernice Pauahi Bishop bequeathed part of her estate to the erect the foundation of the Kamehameha schools, her intent was to establish institutions which would be of lasting benefit to her country. The princess saw the rapid diminution of the Hawaiian people going on decade after decade and felt it was largely the result of their ignorance. She realized that Hawaiians would have to compete with the other nationalities; and so, in order that her own people might have the opportunity for fitting themselves for such competition, these schools were provided for. Pauahi envisoned a learning institution that would help her people survive an ever changing Hawai'i.These are not "racist" ambitions.

The Civil rights act of 1866, cited in Runyon vs. McCrary, was passed to implement the protection of the 13th amendment, which officially abolished slavery. The 1866 statute granted nonwhites, specifically the recently freed slaves,the same right to make and enforce contracts as was enjoyed by white citizens. This statute was an affirmative action statute, designed to provide benefits to nonwhites that they had been long denied. The 1866 statute granted nonwhites -- specifically the recently freed slaves -- the same right to make and enforce contracts "as is enjoyed by white citizens." In other words, by its terms, it granted nothing at all to white citizens.

Anybody with 1/100 Hawaiian blood quantum qualifies for enrollment at the Kamehameha schools. Only a fool would view the admission policy as racist or try to connect the intent of Pauahi to that of those who ran schools denying admission to African Americans.

I know it may not seem like it, but I DON'T oppose Hawaiian programs and Hawaiian education. It is governmental participation and racial exclusivity, and the absence of meaningful discussion within the Hawaiian community about the gravity of the resulting consequences, that makes it so relevant to discuss racism in the context of Hawaiian entitlements, education, and programs.

The Hawaiian Homes Commission Act, enacted by Congress in 1920, was adopted as article X11 of the Hawaii State constitution. Your views on the matter are irrelevant

[Deep Thought]

Re: Mr. Abercrombie has the floor

These issues you reference pertain to discrimination by whites against minorities. Like I mentioned earlier, racism is a WASP ideology.

Tell that to the military couple that got beaten up out at Waikele.

The Democratic Revolution of 1954 was a result of the politics of resentment, resentment of the "Big 5" companies, not of so called "racist" Hawaiians.

It's just not that easy to wash that sort of dirt off your hands. Hawaiians were accomplices whether willing or no.

Pauahi envisoned a learning institution that would help her people survive an ever changing Hawai'i.These are not "racist" ambitions.

Intent and result often differ greatly. When they do serious discussion is merited.

Anybody with 1/100 Hawaiian blood quantum qualifies for enrollment at the Kamehameha schools. Only a fool would view the admission policy as racist or try to connect the intent of Pauahi to that of those who ran schools denying admission to African Americans.

Again, intent and result often differ greatly. Coincidentally the vast majority African Americans are prohibited from attending Kamehameha Schools by its admissions policy.

The Hawaiian Homes Commission Act, enacted by Congress in 1920, was adopted as article X11 of the Hawaii State constitution. Your views on the matter are irrelevant

HHCA was enacted before the Civil Rights movement and official recognition that codified and legalized racism was out of sync with the Constitution. How many times do you intend to tell me my views are irrelevant? As a lifelong non-Native resident of Hawaii I am active in the community and have a serious stake in Hawaii's future. As my concerns are related to this very dicey topic, if they can't be addressed since they are "irrelevant" then logically I have to choose which is the lesser evil, support Hawaiian programs and potentially support racism, or don't take any chances and get rid of the programs and exemptions. I AM one of the people you have to convince and dismissing my concerns as "irrelevant" doesn't do that very well. I do you the respect of not dismissing your assertions off-hand, I'd appreciate the same.

[alohabear]

Re: Mr. Abercrombie has the floor

Again, intent and result often differ greatly. Coincidentally the vast majority African Americans are prohibited from attending Kamehameha Schools by its admissions policy

Coincidentally the vast majority of Hawaiians are prohibited from attending Kamehameha Schools by its admissions policy because they don't want to address "special needs" students. Being an elitist to your own kind is the WORSE kind of prejudice. Pauahi envisioned a learning institution that would help ALL her people survive an ever changing Hawai'i. Not just the ones who past a test and are then "hand picked" to attend. AUWE! Pauahi is rolling in her grave! Shame on KSBE for not educating ALL the Kanaka Maoli.