New smoking ban

[craigwatanabe]

Re: New smoking ban

I have known many, my friend.

I guess if they're lighting up tobacco leaves it's still in the realm of vegetarianism...I guess.

Oh I get it...nothing to do with health as it is to just not eating meat! I know there are two types of vegetarians: one is the type that is truly concerned about their health, and the other is the one who just can't stand eating animals.

[joshuatree]

Re: New smoking ban

Different but the smoke from a broiled BK Burger is just as carcenogenic as a pack of smokes.

Is it? I don't dispute BBQ smoke has carcinogens but the same as a pack of smokes? Maybe on a charcoal grill as the burning charcoal will emit a lot of junk but what about on a gas fired grill?

[Miulang]

Re: New smoking ban

Is it? I don't dispute BBQ smoke has carcinogens but the same as a pack of smokes? Maybe on a charcoal grill as the burning charcoal will emit a lot of junk but what about on a gas fired grill?

There are apparently two types of potential carcinogens in grilled meats, and neither has to do with the type of grill (charcoal or propane) used. The article also gives tips on how to reduce the risk while still enjoying the taste of food off the grill.

According to MIT Medical's chief of medicine, David Diamond, M.D., a specialist in environmental medicine, while the cancer risk may be relatively low, two types of potential carcinogens may be found in grilled meats. The first consists of polycyclic aromatic hydrocarbons (PAHs). These are found in the smoke that billows up when fat drips from meat or fish onto a heat source. When this smoke envelopes the meat on the grilling rack, it efficiently transfers PAHs to the meat's surface.

The second type of carcinogen, heterocyclic amines (HCAs), has more to do with temperature than cooking method. HCAs are formed when high cooking temperatures cause a chemical reaction between naturally occurring amino acids and sugars in the meat and creatine, which is found in muscle tissue. HCAs have been found not only in grilled meats, but also in fried and broiled meats, especially well-done red meat.

Sounds like the Neanderthals had the right idea: eat your meat RARE!
Miulang

[craigwatanabe]

Re: New smoking ban

Okay here's an interesting angle a friend of mine here in Hilo is debating in one of her Political Science classes at UH Hilo.

She's thinking that smokers should be committed. Yeah committed!

Her arguement (remember this is totally rhetorical for the sake of arguement in her class to see how this could pan out) is that in the case of mental incompetance, smokers are harming themselves much like one would stab themselves repeatedly. Seeing someone stabbing themselves would warrant intervention by the State of Hawaii by committing that person to psychiatric treatment or observation. In other words sent to Kaneohe State Mental Hospital.

I told her, "Wait a minute establishing that arguement as cause and effect would also allow that arguement to allow anyone that engages in activities that have a probability of death such as driving a car or riding in an airplane to be considered mentally incompetant as well".

She pondered that statement then said, "But a carton of cigarettes have warning labels regarding the dangers of smoking but people will smoke anyway".

I then told her that cars have safety belts implying possible death if you don't use them.

I'd love to hear the outcome of this arguement. Sounds interesting but in just the short conversation with her I was able to rebutt her statements, and I'm not a smoker! Stay tuned!

[AlohaKine]

Re: New smoking ban

We vow to keep fighting the ban. When the first places go under, do you think there will be peace?

Hey, Coalition;
The Coalition for Tobacco Free Hawaii should just be reasonable and compromise with us and allow the class 15 bar exemption. In some places all the staff are smokers and no customers complain. Just let some bars that need it allow it and there will be peace on the Act295 issue or do they like having to get stressed out responding to all these attacks on that law and negitive statements about your group and its actions publically uttered / televised.

Why not focus on education and cession classes, just stop attacking our businesses and our dignities. You'll still get paid.
The business community will calm down and you can keep the rest of the law. We're not exactly going to push for smoking in banks and grocery stores or stuff like that, come on now coalition.

Did you ever try to talk to us and reach an agreement. Only an extremist group would not.

[Deep Thought]

Re: New smoking ban

Hrm... crossover is coming up, and I challenge you to assert that Sen. Whalen has the power to force the House JUD cmte to ever let that bill see the light of day again. Everything else is dead. Just wait till they start enforcing.

[Keanu]

Re: New smoking ban

We vow to keep fighting the ban. When the first places go under, do you think there will be peace?

Hey, Coalition;
The Coalition for Tobacco Free Hawaii should just be reasonable and compromise with us and allow the class 15 bar exemption. In some places all the staff are smokers and no customers complain. Just let some bars that need it allow it and there will be peace on the Act295 issue or do they like having to get stressed out responding to all these attacks on that law and negitive statements about your group and its actions publically uttered / televised.

Why not focus on education and cession classes, just stop attacking our businesses and our dignities. You'll still get paid.
The business community will calm down and you can keep the rest of the law. We're not exactly going to push for smoking in banks and grocery stores or stuff like that, come on now coalition.

Did you ever try to talk to us and reach an agreement. Only an extremist group would not.

Kawiks, I see your point but time to give up the good fight. Think about it this way...Pakalolo is banned too but people still smoke when they want to.

[Miulang]

Re: New smoking ban

Who said smoking wasn't addictive?

Miulang

[Palolo Joe]

Re: New smoking ban

Who said smoking wasn't addictive?

Stop trying to bloat your post count. That link has nothing to do with the smoking ban in Hawaii.

[AlohaKine]

Re: New smoking ban

Little crybaby Debby Zysman, director of the Coalition for a Tobacco Free Hawaii, freaked out a few days ago and said she felt threatened and went into whiner mode again ( as first seen at O'tool's, weeks ago ).
After years of advocating mercilous discrimination and harassment of smokers and often getting her way.
After years of hardball, high pressure political warfare against smokers and business owners. Tens of thousands at least spent on lobbying.
After years of heading a professional hate group.
After years of demonizing people just because they are smokers. Because they don't fit HER standard.
Debby now feels personally threatened when her same exact tactics are thrown back at her by an unpaid freedoms activist in a legal and purely political way. A taste of her own medicine, and she doesn't like it.

She tryed to do something about it but it all come to nothing AGAIN, because she once again didn't have a case.

It's funny how bullies are often the biggest cowards and cry babys when the tables are turned.

[AlohaKine]

Re: New smoking ban

I applaud Zysman. I don't want these smokers polluting my air. Yay smoking ban!

Zysman has a special talent for making enemies. She is very rude when you don't agree with her and responds with comments of the nature of "ok", noted, I heard, or words to that effect. She has little concern for the owners and employees livilhoods of these bars and thinks they should just believe what she says and trust her.
Lipsher of the DOH is also a member of Zysman's group but he is a lot more civil generally speaking, he'll actually listen when you speak with him. I doubt he will ever agree with our exemption, however.

Well I see that you like her, of course there are a few people that like pastor Fred Phelps also.

[MixedPlateBroker]

Re: New smoking ban

It's tough enough for bars and restaurants in Hawaii to stay in the black without a smoking ban putting a chokehold on their customer base. I'm not saying smoking should be encouraged. Just that lawmakers could have approached the situation more creatively.

Why not offer significant tax breaks to businesses that choose to prohibit smoking on premise and within 20 feet of any exit/entrance while at the same time raising the "sin" tax on cigarettes? The Liquor Comission could help earn their keep by monitoring any incendiary transgressions which could lead to a business losing their tax break.

The combination of incentives and disincentives could be much more effective in getting the desired results than a toothless law ($100 fine for businesses? Puh-leez). Weak laws are more likely to breed resentment and defiance than fear and compliance. If our legislators were truly concerned about our health, they'd give smokers one more reason to quit rather than simply a reason to feel mildly irritated.

[AlohaKine]

Re: New smoking ban

It's tough enough for bars and restaurants in Hawaii to stay in the black without a smoking ban putting a chokehold on their customer base. I'm not saying smoking should be encouraged. Just that lawmakers could have approached the situation more creatively.

Why not offer significant tax breaks to businesses that choose to prohibit smoking on premise and within 20 feet of any exit/entrance while at the same time raising the "sin" tax on cigarettes? The Liquor Comission could help earn their keep by monitoring any incendiary transgressions which could lead to a business losing their tax break.

The combination of incentives and disincentives could be much more effective in getting the desired results than a toothless law ($100 fine for businesses? Puh-leez). Weak laws are more likely to breed resentment and defiance than fear and compliance. If our legislators were truly concerned about our health, they'd give smokers one more reason to quit rather than simply a reason to feel mildly irritated.

That what a special liquor license type is for, as requested in the bill that is "on hold" in a house commitee after the last hearing. The bill is fair because it lets people decide for themselves. The licence will almost certainly cost money and that will be a disincentive for the portion of bars that are not hit too hard by the ban while saving those that really need it.

[AlohaKine]

Re: New smoking ban

Sam Slom attempted to get a floor amendment to a liquor related law for bars today. I witnessed his speech in favor and it was excellent, very real, and very direct. It showed that he really cares about our freedoms and about employees and small businesses that are suffering under the ban. Bravo Senator Slom. He pointed out that prisons can still have smoking but not the honest businesses of this island. However some lawmakers are still misinformed to the problem and actually still believe the antis lies. Of the several dozen people in the audience, 90% appluaded Sen. Slom loudly and repeatedly. A++ lawmaker and friend of the people.

On the flip side the cold hearted and naive Roz Baker from the west side of Maui spoke against the working people and spat in their faces, conceitedly pretending that the problem was not real and that the 100 owners that know by the numbers that it is are just fools. The hate group "Coalition for a Tobacco Free Hawaii" has no trouble getting their B.S. lines through her two inch thick skull. Like they know more then bars do about things. Her voters are going to know about this brainless, shameless, and downright cruel monster. What is more, she said it right in the faces of a goodly number of owners and bar employees in the audience, it's called " making friends". Nobody in the audience clapped for her, and save for one paid lobbist for the antis, almost everyone was looking on in disgust or shaking there heads no while Roz mindlessly babbled for the ban. Roz is at best an F- mockery of an senator. A trained chimp in human in clothing could do a better job as a senator. A severely mentally retarded two year old has more incite on matters than her. Osama Bin Laden likely has more compassion for our people than Roz the cur.

[LikaNui]

Re: New smoking ban

A Breaking News item at this link includes these excerpts:

"A state judge this morning threw out a lawsuit by a group of bar owners challenging the state law banning smoking in bars and restaurants and within 20 feet of their entrances and windows.
"Circuit Judge Sabrina McKenna granted the dismissal request by state lawyers, who argued that the Hawaii Bar Owners Association did not establish a valid claim that the law is unconstitutional.
"She noted that although the group contends the law is unconstitutionally vague, none of its members has been cited for violating the law.
"The judge, however, said the group may later refile the lawsuit.
"Paul Yamamura, the group's lawyer, said they may refile their challenge if one of the members gets cited for violating the law."