New smoking ban

[Palolo Joe]

Re: New smoking ban

And the answer is: Smoking Permits for bars and other businesses with appropriate warning signs for patrons.

Which stars with: OVERTURNING THE CURRENT NO-SMOKING LAW.

[AlohaKine]

Re: New smoking ban

If only you could be this passionate and active on real issues instead of this smoking-ban sideshow. How do you plan to change the law? Petitions don't change laws.

There are things happening in the community that are private right now but will come to the surface in due time. The petition is just one small part of it, but was the first, because it needs time and could be put into action right away.

[AlohaKine]

Re: New smoking ban

Did you know that in part because of this ban, only 11 hotels on the island allow smoking in the rooms. Also those 11 have 20% or fewer smoking rooms. Once a room goes non-smoking it has to stay that way now.

Will such few rooms be able to accomadate every visitor who smokes? Not even close. And when a hotel has a drop in business, they now can't even reverse the damage by making more rooms smoking.

The fact is that treating smoking visitors like sh*t is not good for tourism -dah. When this shock wave spreads as word gets out, it's going to damage our biggest industry and the ill effects will trickle down everywere else. Like hurting bars even more as people have less disposable income.

Do what's right for the community and ask to sign your bar's petition.

[Deep Thought]

Re: New smoking ban

There are things happening in the community that are private right now but will come to the surface in due time. The petition is just one small part of it, but was the first, because it needs time and could be put into action right away.

Great, but things happening in the community do not necessarily mean things happening in the Legislature (where the law was made and the only place it can be changed). Do you have a bill drafted? Who is introducing it (a Representative? a Senator? Both?)? Assuming that you actually have well-written legislation, what makes you think that the smoking ban's main proponents will ever let it see the light of day in committee? In case you don't know some of the ban's key sponsors now hold committee chairmanships that give them considerable power to interfere with your agenda. It just all seems like a lot of talk, but I'd love to see you prove me wrong.

[AlohaKine]

Re: New smoking ban

Great, but things happening in the community do not necessarily mean things happening in the Legislature (where the law was made and the only place it can be changed). Do you have a bill drafted? Who is introducing it (a Representative? a Senator? Both?)? Assuming that you actually have well-written legislation, what makes you think that the smoking ban's main proponents will ever let it see the light of day in committee? In case you don't know some of the ban's key sponsors now hold committee chairmanships that give them considerable power to interfere with your agenda. It just all seems like a lot of talk, but I'd love to see you prove me wrong.

I know it had backers with influence. I'm not sure what your background is in relation to politics, but I would like to know the names of the key sponsors and their relationship to comittee chairs. Please let me know. I'm personally much less experienced with state politics than some of the others opposed to the ban and info. is hard to find on the net sometimes.

[jdub]

Re: New smoking ban

Score one for smokers rights! I was having my pau hana cocktail at my neighborhood bar last night. I was having a cigarette, as were a couple of other regulars at the other end of the bar. In walks some cork soaker, who plants himself on the stool next to me (at the nearly empty, 50-foot bar) and begins busting my chops about smoking being illegal. When I dismissed his complaints and suggested that if the owners don't have a problem with me smoking at the bar, it was fine for me to light up.

This set the little guy off (Napoleon complex for sure). After calling me rude, a loser and, finally, a "bitch," it became clear to me that this guy was looking to provoke me into a fight. And although I'd be lying if I said I didn't want knock him into next week, I'm not the kind of person that falls for that macho crap. Now, had he insulted the lady friend next to me, it would have turned very ugly very quickly.

But my Irish diplomacy was in full effect, and I said, "This is me turning you off, man." I pantomimed turning off a TV knob. "Click. Now why don't you take your bull***t somewhere people care what you think. You're about to get eighty-sixed, anyway."

Me and my friend ignored him altogether, but the others in the bar were looking our way in pure amazement with unmistakable "What an a**hole!" expressions. The bartender came down and said, "You need to leave, man. You're an a**hole."

He squawked some "Fine, I'm never coming back, you lost my business" crap, and everyone laughed at him as he slinked out.

Smokers: 1
A**hole: 0.

[pzarquon]

Re: New smoking ban

Score one for smokers rights! I was having my pau hana cocktail at my neighborhood bar last night.

Which bar was this? I'm sure both smokers and non-smokers -- for completely opposite reasons -- would love to know!

[Palolo Joe]

Re: New smoking ban

Which bar was this? I'm sure both smokers and non-smokers -- for completely opposite reasons -- would love to know!

Maybe by PM... but I wouldn't broadcast it on HT if I was jdub.

Don't need any unneccessary attention from the state, if you catch my drift...

[pzarquon]

Re: New smoking ban

Well, true...

There isn't any enforcement action being taken yet, though, right?

And I have a funny feeling that even when the law is "officially" in effect, complaint calls won't exactly be high on any government agency's priority list.

This kind of law depends heavily on basic social pressure. Stink eye from a room full of non-smokers on one end of the spectrum. But if you walk into a bar full of smokers flouting the law, you'd probably reasonably conclude it's better to take your business elsewhere than make a scene like jdub's new friend. I'm pretty sure such an establishment wouldn't want your money any more than you'd want to give it to them.

Which isn't to say I support this kind of situation, being a non-smoker and all. I'm just sayin...

[AlohaKine]

Do you know why the bars can't get fined? Because the administrative rules of enforcement are not ready yet. I checked with a lawyer. The DOH is still working on them. All they can do for the next few months is give warnings and lie to the public. The only real danger is "peer pressure" i.e. fights. Actually the liquor commission could crack down, but they've been told to stay out of the smoking matter at least for now.

Sign the petition at the bar to repeal the ban. Several thousand have. There is real hope out there in addition to the petition. I'm a member of Hawaii ( pro-) Smokers Alliance, we know what's really going on.

Maybe by PM... but I wouldn't broadcast it on HT if I was jdub.

Don't need any unneccessary attention from the state, if you catch my drift...

That's why we ain't naming names of the bars.

[craigwatanabe]

Re: New smoking ban

Well if there are no names then it's hard to believe that story even if it really did happen (the way you said it).

Plus I would think if this patron was asked to leave he'd have reported it by now and some legal action either happened or is happening. I'm sure this story does not have an ending yet.

Could a bar lose it's liquor license if it breaks a law? As a bar owner I'd be a bit more apprehensive about blowing off the law if your livelyhood is tied to civil obedience.

Alohakine, what does the new smoking law say about a bar owner doing just what you indicated? Your incident can make for a very intersesting debate on what could have happened or what could possibly happen to that bar if the law is enforced.

What does the law say about this incident and what do you think will happen to this bar if the law is enforced?

[dick]

Re: New smoking ban

Sorry, but I know of several bars in Honolulu which "allow" smoking. And no, I won't name them. But I was in one place the other night, and I had some smokes with me and although I didn't actually light up at the time, I was handed an ashtray. I returned later that evening and lit up, as did most of the clientele that was there. Nobody said a word.

This law is a joke, and most people know it. It's not enforceable except by absurdist "peer pressure." It's only a matter of time before everyone actually realizes that.

[SouthKona]

Re: New smoking ban

Could a bar lose it's liquor license if it breaks a law?

§ -12 Penalties
(g) In addition to the fines established by this section, violation of this chapter by a person who owns, manages, operates, or otherwise controls any place or facility designated by this chapter may result in the suspension or revocation of any permit or license issued to the person or the place for the premises on which the violation occurred.

[jdub]

Re: New smoking ban

Well if there are no names then it's hard to believe that story even if it really did happen (the way you said it).

Impugning my veracity, cw? Despite my unwillingness to disclose the name of the establsihment due to the fact that the owners are not only the guys who sign (one of) my checks, but are my friends as well, I assure you that you can't make this stuff up.

[craigwatanabe]

Re: New smoking ban

Impugning my veracity, cw? Despite my unwillingness to disclose the name of the establsihment due to the fact that the owners are not only the guys who sign (one of) my checks, but are my friends as well, I assure you that you can't make this stuff up.

Regardless, with no name to authenticate your story, it's like reading a resume with no names to back it's claim..."yeah I got a degree at some college I'd rather not say but I got a great reference letter from my old boss from another company I'd rather not mention".

I'd like to believe you but you need to substantiate your sources before I can believe it without a doubt. But from a smoker's perspective I do agree it was a point for smokers and would make for a great line in a movie.

And quite honestly though, as non-smoker if I were him I would have picked my battles better than how he conducted himself. There are ways to communicate to others and that wasn't an effective method.