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  • Chinatown drug shooting

    Yesterday morning, about 4:15, a van pulled up to a small group of men on River St. and 2 guys jumped out with a shotgun and assault rifle firing on at least one in the group, all of whom fled instantly. But one wasn't able to get away and died at the corner of Pauahi / River Sts.
    Street word has it that it was local Samoan VS mainland Samoan. The mainland guy's use guns, whereas the locals don't, yet.
    Word has also lately been that you buy your drugs only from the Samoan sellers, as other sellers give lesser deals or sell bunk.

    This murder depicts an escalation of turf wars concerning the blatant dealings that occur night and day, in the open and far inside compliant doorways, with very little HPD presence, excepting for a daytime focus on traffic, jaywalking, and other reletively minor infractions, while the more serious problems persist and may be increasing.
    The City has taken (odd) measures, like removing the ability to park along the curb on Pauahi St., which must make residents and proprietors upset, and removed overhead sheltering from the tables along the river, making regulars there upset, but doesn't put much of a dent in the dealing.

    There has to be a better use of our patrol officers instead of a priority of merely getting a high ticket count when dealing is rampant and getting deadly, and in such a confined area it shouldn't be a huge problem.
    The 'mean streets' of Honolulu are nothing compared to the mainland, and we need our Police Dept. to make sure that this latest killing is the beginning of the end of this stuff, and hand the streets back to law abiding citizens.
    https://www.facebook.com/Bobby-Ingan...5875444640256/

  • #2
    Re: Chinatown drug shooting

    As anybody who has been here for awhile knows, I have sometimes been a sharp critic of HPD. But on this particular criticism, I'm going to defend the police a bit.

    In a time when HPD is facing a serious manpower shortage, you are right about HPD needing to be careful in the way patrol officers are utilized. But it's really tough. One day, it's a gang-related shooting in Chinatown, and people scream, "Why aren't there enough officers in Downtown?" Another day, some pedal-to-the-metal drunk crashes his car causing a fiery death, and the same people will scream, "Why aren't there enough officers on the road setting up speed/DUI traps?" Then another day, a number of tourists will get their purses snatched, and the same people will scream, "Why aren't there enough officers doing a foot patrol of Waikiki?" And so on and so forth. It's the kind of criticism that never stops and HPD will never overcome,....especially in the light of the dept.'s pay/labor situation.

    I will also say that in the particular case of this Chinatown shooting,.... I frankly don't know if the way to ultimately defusing this gang "turf war" is by sending out more officers onto the streets of Downtown 24/7 with the idea of arresting the small-time dealers and runners. All the small-potato arrests will accomplish is to simply move the dealings elsewhere. If you really want to curb gang activity and violence, you've got to go up higher in the chain. It takes undercover work, planning, intelligence operations, surveillance, etc. to nab the big fish.
    This post may contain an opinion that may conflict with your opinion. Do not take it personal. Polite discussion of difference of opinion is welcome.

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    • #3
      Re: Chinatown drug shooting

      Just came back from Kahala Mall were I saw 2 HPD officers on ATVs.
      Who else get's HPD on ATVs protecting their turf?

      They finally are getting rid of the very ill-advised and seldom used
      equestrian patrol, that got approved a few years ago right after a study stated that such a venture would be quite cost inefficiant and the department saying they wouldn't be using horses. Now they are having a hard time finding buyers of these fine horses that will have the ability to accomodate them properly for the rest of there natural lives.

      Why are there virtually no HPD to be seen at night time in Chinatown except coming and going to the sub-station, but not patroling the area? A foot patrol is needed throughout, and not just around the Hawaii Theater on show nights.

      Chinatown was struggling to maintain an upsurge in worthwhile establishments and clientel. Now the place is sliding back into a dangerous stink hole.

      Seems the shooting was not as much a turf war, but an argument that got crazy. But then, why were the shooters cruising around with serious fire power? And why have they not been caught? If it means enuf to 'someone', there is no way that arrests don't happen soon, it get's done now. We've seen it happen plenty, but most other times, nothing.
      https://www.facebook.com/Bobby-Ingan...5875444640256/

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      • #4
        Re: Chinatown drug shooting

        As someone who works late in Chinatown, I can only say that the fact that cold blooded murderers with assault weapons are gunning people down in the streets makes me proudly unsettled.
        Don't be mean,
        try to help.

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        • #5
          Got 'em!

          It's a sunnier day in McGarrettville, as on Monday the two purported gunmen were arrested. Good job, HPD. The driver is still at large. Look's like it was indeed a turf battle.
          https://www.facebook.com/Bobby-Ingan...5875444640256/

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          • #6
            Re: Chinatown drug shooting

            Originally posted by Frankie's Market View Post
            I will also say that in the particular case of this Chinatown shooting,.... I frankly don't know if the way to ultimately defusing this gang "turf war" is by sending out more officers onto the streets of Downtown 24/7 with the idea of arresting the small-time dealers and runners. All the small-potato arrests will accomplish is to simply move the dealings elsewhere.
            Ian Lind also astutely nails the point home in his blog.

            http://ilind.net/2009/04/08/wednesda...ang-challenge/

            The recent gang-related violence in Chinatown has suddenly focused public and political attention on gang issues. That’s a positive. But it’s a mistake to talk about gangs as a Chinatown issue or to focus primarily on that particular “turf war”. As we’ve seen over several years, local gang violence has spread across the island of Oahu, as evidenced by repeated gang fights involving large groups of combatants, some leading to injuries and deaths. We’ve seen the spread of drive-by shootings, home invasion robberies, and other symptoms of the spread of gangs. These aren’t isolated to particular neighborhoods as used to be the case.

            The pronouncements by the chief of police and elected officials have failed to provide any information on how, or even whether, the city and state are responding. Pulling HPD resources from other parts of the island into a few square blocks in Chinatown may make downtown businesses feel better but won’t address the overall gang problem that has emerged in the last several years.

            The public has a right to expect more.


            I couldn't have said it better myself.
            This post may contain an opinion that may conflict with your opinion. Do not take it personal. Polite discussion of difference of opinion is welcome.

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            • #7
              Re: Chinatown drug shooting

              And when are they going to address the graffiti BS that blights these islands? This is gang related to a large extent. We need stiff laws and action on this matter alone.
              https://www.facebook.com/Bobby-Ingan...5875444640256/

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              • #8
                Re: Chinatown drug shooting

                Originally posted by Ron Whitfield View Post
                And when are they going to address the graffiti BS that blights these islands?
                Who's "they?"

                The police?

                The politicians?

                Stiffer laws will discourage vandals. Increased enforcement will help. But let's get real here. When it comes to fighting graffiti, this is not a battle that police and govt. officials can win on their own. It is something that all private citizens have to do their part to pitch in and help.

                Instead of people just complaining about graffiti, do they report it? HPD has a graffiti hotline at 539-3222.

                Better yet, instead of people just sitting back and waiting for city/state employees (many of whom are already overloaded with jobs) to paint out the graffiti in their neighborhood, are they willing to step up and volunteer their services? If they call the Dept. of Transportation at 831-6714, they will be given the necessary work permit, paint and supplies.
                This post may contain an opinion that may conflict with your opinion. Do not take it personal. Polite discussion of difference of opinion is welcome.

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                • #9
                  Re: Chinatown drug shooting

                  There's a Story to Chinatown. It's been known for years. Drugs and Illegal things have been happening for years. It's no biggie. Drive by shootings? Not new. Will it happen again? Probably will. It's not the fault of HPD. No how...no way. The question is who are the leaders and are they known? Ahhhhh....this island is too small. Must not talk too much. Get my drift?

                  Like I said in the Midweek.

                  "There is a War right here going on."

                  Auntie Pupule
                  Believe me or not.
                  Last edited by 1stwahine; April 9, 2009, 01:23 PM.
                  Be AKAMAI ~ KOKUA Hawai`i!
                  Philippians 4:13 --- I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me.

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                  • #10
                    The menehune...?

                    Originally posted by Frankie's Market View Post
                    Who's "they?"
                    Much stiffer fines/com. service would be a nice start.
                    Painting it out is a base (non) solution, not adequate in my book.

                    Does the Outdoor Circle and such put any focus towards solutions?

                    Is there still a Red Beret force on Oahu? Rarely ever saw any of them anyway.

                    As far as citizen involvement, you need to pay most people to spend their precious time and effort helping themselves and their community. Few have the luxury and/or desire to volunteer for anything.
                    Last edited by helen; April 9, 2009, 03:54 PM. Reason: fixing the quote tag
                    https://www.facebook.com/Bobby-Ingan...5875444640256/

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                    • #11
                      Not impressed...

                      ...as I happened to be standing around in Chinatown yesterday as the HPD was out in foot patrol force.
                      Seems when they are in small 2 or 3 contingents of rookies with a senior officer in charge they conduct themselves sufficiently.
                      But, I noticed that when they huddled on a nearby corner in a larger group, instead of behaving like professionals, they acted like a group of kids, obviously not discussing police matters but stupid stuff and acting like it. Not a good show.
                      https://www.facebook.com/Bobby-Ingan...5875444640256/

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                      • #12
                        Re: Not impressed...

                        Originally posted by Ron Whitfield View Post
                        I noticed that when they huddled on a nearby corner in a larger group, instead of behaving like professionals, they acted like a group of kids...
                        Mr. Whitfield, HPD Rookies go through an extensive training. Like any other group of students who go on an excursion, in the case of rookies an assignment right after graduation, they are excited and quite new to the rules and regulations. Give them a BREAK! Choosing to become a Police Officer is an easy one. Being selected and making it is another story. Each cadet that you saw talking deserves a break. When I see Rookies, I congratulate them and wish them well. If you have any complaints, Sir, you can attend the Downtown Neighborhood Board Meeting and tell Major Saito or Sgt. Y.K. Chan. It is your right.

                        * The next regular meeting is scheduled for May 7, 2009, Pauahi Community Center, 171 North Pauahi Street at 7:00 p.m.

                        Lynn Vasquez-Dela Cerna
                        Last edited by 1stwahine; April 10, 2009, 09:14 AM.
                        Be AKAMAI ~ KOKUA Hawai`i!
                        Philippians 4:13 --- I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me.

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                        • #13
                          Re: Not impressed...

                          I also noticed HPD walking around yesterday both times when I walked through Chinatown. I actually felt a little safer walking past Aala Park with some HPD officers within eyeshot =D Man, there seems to be ALOT of people hangin around Aala Park recently! Anyone else notice this?
                          What can be asserted without proof can be dismissed without proof. – Christopher Hitchens

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                          • #14
                            Re: The menehune...?

                            Originally posted by Ron Whitfield View Post
                            Much stiffer fines/com. service would be a nice start.
                            Painting it out is a base (non) solution, not adequate in my book.
                            Painting out graffiti is a "(non) solution?" But what else can you do once a vandal has successfully left his tag? Ron, once again, get real here. There's simply no way you can have every single wall along our highways, parks, and schools watched 24/7 by an officer or a security camera. While tougher laws might discourage and make vandals think twice, it's never going to totally stop the crime, anymore than the threat of life in prison sentences will stop all murders.

                            Originally posted by Ron Whitfield View Post
                            As far as citizen involvement, you need to pay most people to spend their precious time and effort helping themselves and their community. Few have the luxury and/or desire to volunteer for anything.
                            Originally posted by Ron Whitfield View Post
                            Does the Outdoor Circle and such put any focus towards solutions?
                            One one hand, you dismiss the idea of volunteering to help in the battle against graffiti. And then in another paragraph, you expect other organizations made up of "volunteers" to do something about it.

                            It's easy to be a critic and point fingers at everybody else. But as the old adage goes, every time you point one finger at another person, 3 of your other fingers are pointing back at you.

                            Ron, look around you. Don't you see the signs along the roads/highways/streams, saying that "such and such" portion has been adopted by an organization to clean up the litter? Instead of these people pointing fingers at other people, they have decided to actually do something about it. Why? Because they care about the problem. And their concern motivates them beyond just complaining about it.

                            The bottom line is: the more people that pitch in and volunteer their time and effort to wiping out graffiti, the less of a problem will be. The fewer people that do something about it, then the more graffiti you'll see and the longer time it will linger before it is painted out.
                            This post may contain an opinion that may conflict with your opinion. Do not take it personal. Polite discussion of difference of opinion is welcome.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: The menehune...?

                              Originally posted by 1stwahine View Post
                              Mr. Whitfield, HPD Rookies go through an extensive training. Like any other group of students who go on an excursion, in the case of rookies an assignment right after graduation, they are excited and quite new to the rules and regulations. Give them a BREAK! If you have any complaints, Sir, you can attend the Downtown Neighborhood Board Meeting and tell Major Saito or Sgt. Y.K. Chan. It is your right.
                              Their 'extensive training' should include behaving like mature adults at all times when in public, not as school girls. Maybe the ones I mention missed that class... It was a real head shaking moment, and not one that inspires confidence in doing the serious job at hand.
                              When they are suddenly out on the streets in groups, folks take notice, watch, and size them up. ...easy pickin's. Kinda like the Boy Scouts, only with a badge and gun. Still, it make's some feel protected, and it moves the problem somewhere else.

                              I'll pass on putting it straight to HPD at the NBM. They also have a tendency to get their BVDs wadded in a bunch when someone has the audacity to tell the facts that aren't complimentary, but, thank you, 'maam'.

                              Originally posted by Frankie's Market View Post
                              1) Painting out graffiti is a "(non) solution?" But what else can you do once a vandal has successfully left his tag? Ron, once again, get real here.
                              2) There's simply no way you can have every single wall along our highways, parks, and schools watched 24/7 by an officer or a security camera.
                              3) While tougher laws might discourage and make vandals think twice, it's never going to totally stop the crime, anymore than the threat of life in prison sentences will stop all murders.
                              4) One one hand, you dismiss the idea of volunteering to help in the battle against graffiti. And then in another paragraph, you expect other organizations made up of "volunteers" to do something about it.
                              5) It's easy to be a critic and point fingers at everybody else. But as the old adage goes, every time you point one finger at another person, 3 of your other fingers are pointing back at you.
                              6) Ron, look around you. Don't you see the signs along the roads/highways/streams, saying that "such and such" portion has been adopted by an organization to clean up the litter? Instead of these people pointing fingers at other people, they have decided to actually do something about it. Why? Because they care about the problem. And their concern motivates them beyond just complaining about it.
                              7) The bottom line is: the more people that pitch in and volunteer their time and effort to wiping out graffiti, the less of a problem will be. The fewer people that do something about it, then the more graffiti you'll see and the longer time it will linger before it is painted out.
                              1) What's the difference between a ugly tag or an ugly paint over? None, and the taggers will be back to those spots. The point is to dissuade the tagging, and no, that's not an easy solution, but there has to be more done about it.
                              2) And I don't want either. But there has to be a way to get into their heads to change their thinking and tactics.
                              3) True, but if nobody squaks about it, nothing will get done, and there must not be enuf squaking. It worked for the time being in Chinatown.
                              4) I compliment nearly every graffiti buster I pass, and if I had the extra time, I'd help.
                              The Outdoor Circle has made it a point to try and keep the islands looking better, and it was simply a question, as to what they may have been putting forth as remedies, nothing more.
                              5) I rarely point fingers and will take any and all that someone else wishes to throw towards me, I've done nothing wrong, so have at it.
                              6) Good for them, especially if they are making time from a busy schedual for it. But I don't appreciate someone chiding me about merely using a forum to make points. That's part of what it's for, and if we utilized it for more of the such we may come up with the solutions.
                              7) Volunteering is a nearly useless way to get to the problem. You ever see neighborhood patrols? Rarely, and when they're out, it's a bunch of elderly and others with even less capacity.
                              I've tried to put together a plan for a working/paid force of civilians to patrol their hoods, but getting it past the inevitable and innummerable road blocks is daunting. The HPD don't seem to appreciate the competition...
                              https://www.facebook.com/Bobby-Ingan...5875444640256/

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