If Music is the Key of Life than RAP music...

[Leo Lakio]

Re: If Music is the Key of Life than RAP music...

That's not censorship , just good conscience.

I can see it that way. I think of it as a more internal form of censorship (self-censorship, but with a perceived outside influence - a nitpicky distinction on my part, I'll grant you), but I can see that, while we just might term it differently, we're on a similar wavelength.

As for Imus (and that's a whole-nother thread, as we know), I still prefer free speech over controlled output. But commercial radio isn't free speech. And the answer to free speech that you don't like is not less free speech, but MORE. The freedom to respond, refute and rebut.

[tikiyaki]

Re: If Music is the Key of Life than RAP music...

I can see it that way. I think of it as a more internal form of censorship (self-censorship, but with a perceived outside influence - a nitpicky distinction on my part, I'll grant you), but I can see that, while we just might term it differently, we're on a similar wavelength.

As for Imus (and that's a whole-nother thread, as we know), I still prefer free speech over controlled output. But commercial radio isn't free speech. And the answer to free speech that you don't like is not less free speech, but MORE. The freedom to respond, refute and rebut.

We definitely ARE on the same wavelength...You know me well enough (via this forum) that I'm NOT for shutting people up....yes, call it "internal censorship" , maybe that's what I'm saying....I dunno, it just seems like there is better ways of expressing one's self than what is going on in mainstream hip hop today....Is there any real societal contribution being made ?

Maybe in the case of NWA, them being pretty much the first to really be vocal about it, there was a "need" for the voice to be heard. But that was almost 20 years ago....

Surely the awareness factor has been raised. After how many repititions of this same theme does this merely become a "product" to make alot of money, and at what expense to society ?

Yea, freedom of speech, great....more violence in Hip Hop than ever. More kids acting out the "gansta" lifestyle. A correlation? You tell me.

You know I'm NOT for censorship, moreso an artistic "higher road" perhaps....

As for Imus....commercial radio is SUPPOSED to be part of "freedom of Speech", and being that he didn't violate any of the broadcaster's "7 dirty words" law, him getting fired could be deemed "unconstitutional".
But in today's "politically correct" environment, it's OK for him to lose his job, and tons of Hip Hop records using the same misogynist expressions (ie: "nappy headed" , "HO's and Bitches" etc) get airplay on major radio stations, and sell LOTS of records.

It's ok to be black and say these things, but for him to use it jokingly, not.

TimKona would brand this his ubiquitous "Cognitive Dissonance".

Sounds like double standard to me. But this is the world we live in, I guess.

[sinjin]

Re: If Music is the Key of Life than RAP music...

....is glorifying carrying guns, selling dope, and committing crimes MORE or LESS appropriate than calling a bunch of women basketball players a bunch of "Nappy headed Ho's".

Glorifying is a term used here to elicit a negative emotional response. I don't think they're glorifying anything. As for the Imus thing: A black person can use certain terms without being perceived as denigrating the entire race since it is their own. Not the same thing for a white man to throw around those same terms.

[Leo Lakio]

Re: If Music is the Key of Life than RAP music...

Maybe in the case of NWA, them being pretty much the first to really be vocal about it, there was a "need" for the voice to be heard. But that was almost 20 years ago....

Maybe it's not right for middle-aged white guys like you and I to say.

After how many repititions of this same theme does this merely become a "product" to make alot of money

Now you're on to something there.

But in today's "politically correct" environment, it's OK for him to lose his job, and tons of Hip Hop records using the same misogynist expressions (ie: "nappy headed" , "HO's and Bitches" etc) get airplay on major radio stations, and sell LOTS of records...Sounds like double standard to me. But this is the world we live in, I guess.

I'm less bothered by the double-standard of comparing Imus' words to rappers, and more by the fact that misogynist radio hosts like Limbaugh, Beck & Savage get to stay on the air.

[tikiyaki]

Re: If Music is the Key of Life than RAP music...

Glorifying is a term used here to elicit a negative emotional response. I don't think they're glorifying anything.

You're kidding right ? Shall we get some hip hop lyrics in here and see if anyone is not glorifying anything ? Sorry, but what part of NWA's "gangsta gangsta" sounds apologetic, humble or remorseful ? Pulleeze....

As for the Imus thing: A black person can use certain terms without being perceived as denigrating the entire race since it is their own. Not the same thing for a white man to throw around those same terms.

Is that a fact ? Says WHO ? Ask any black WOMAN if it's ok for a black man to call her a "nappy headed ho".... Where is the rulebook that states this ?

It's perceived assumption , depending on what side of the fence you're on.

By the same token, black comedians can make all the white jokes they want, and no problem right? Public Enemy can talk about "the white man" in blanket statements and it's ok ?

Sorry, but there are way too many double standards here to memorize.

[tikiyaki]

Re: If Music is the Key of Life than RAP music...

Maybe it's not right for middle-aged white guys like you and I to say

It's not right for ANYONE to say. That's my point.

[Leo Lakio]

Re: If Music is the Key of Life than RAP music...

It's not right for ANYONE to say. That's my point.

Sorry - I wasn't clear. I meant, is it right for us to debate whether or not there's still a need for that voice to be heard?

As for demeaning words themselves - yeah, I don't want to hear them, but I won't stop someone else from saying them. It will just make me work harder to counter ignorance.

[tikiyaki]

Re: If Music is the Key of Life than RAP music...

Maybe it's not right for middle-aged white guys like you and I to say.Now you're on to something there.
I'm less bothered by the double-standard of comparing Imus' words to rappers, and more by the fact that misogynist radio hosts like Limbaugh, Beck & Savage get to stay on the air.

Sorry - I wasn't clear. I meant, is it right for us to debate whether or not there's still a need for that voice to be heard?

As for demeaning words themselves - yeah, I don't want to hear them, but I won't stop someone else from saying them. It will just make me work harder to counter ignorance.

Ah....gotcha. yea, Maybe it isn't our place to decide if it's "right" or not, and no one can stop anyone from saying anything, it's just when one person profits from it, and the other person has their career destroyed from it...herein lies the problem.

Granted, I think IMUS is a dumbass, and don't support his actions. It's just the fact that gets he hung up on a cross, and 50 cent, Jay Z and others continue to get grammy's and platinum records for it is a severe dysfuntion in my eyes.

[Leo Lakio]

Re: If Music is the Key of Life than RAP music...

when one person profits from it, and the other person has their career destroyed from it...herein lies the problem.

I knew we were working our way to the same point - thanks!

[sinjin]

Re: If Music is the Key of Life than RAP music...

You're kidding right ? Shall we get some hip hop lyrics in here and see if anyone is not glorifying anything ? Sorry, but what part of NWA's "gangsta gangsta" sounds apologetic, humble or remorseful ? Pulleeze....

Are those my only choices? Your tone suggests you're not interested in discussion so think whatever you like. I think they're just relating the way things are where they're from. We all have local pride.

Is that a fact ? Says WHO ? Ask any black WOMAN if it's ok for a black man to call her a "nappy headed ho".... Where is the rulebook that states this?

It's my opinion which might be a fact and might not, unlike your view of your opinions. I didn't say it was ok, only that it isn't taken as racist.

By the same token, black comedians can make all the white jokes they want, and no problem right? Public Enemy can talk about "the white man" in blanket statements and it's ok?

It's ok with me. I don't feel the need to defend white people just because I'm mostly white. Why do you?

Sorry, but there are way too many double standards here to memorize.

You have no interest in understanding, only being right. Don't pretend otherwise.

[tikiyaki]

Re: If Music is the Key of Life than RAP music...

Are those my only choices? Your tone suggests you're not interested in discussion so think whatever you like. I think they're just relating the way things are where they're from. We all have local pride.

On the contrary Sinjin, I'm very interested in the discussion, that's why I'm having it. Whether you believe me or not, I respect your opinion, but you are the one stating things as fact, not me. My point is that is "glorifies" violence and the "gangsta" way of life. I didn't used the word "glorify" to ellicit a response...many of these songs do just that. "Local Pride" is a stretch by anyone's imagination. If you advocate lawlessness, like shooting cops, well, that obviously explains where you're coming from.

And, like I said before...this sort of subject matter coming from NWA in 1988 is vastly different than someone making records in 2007. Now it's more mainstream and more likely to sell big numbers....My guess is that NWA were truly expressing their rage, without any thought as to becoming rich from it...thus making it more authentic, without pose or motivation, other than self expression. I doubt they figured on being an big influence on kids

Either way, Violence in Hip Hop will most likely continue as long as this stuff is the norm.

You said :
"As for the Imus thing: A black person can use certain terms without being perceived as denigrating the entire race since it is their own. Not the same thing for a white man to throw around those same terms."

There was no "In my opinion" added to that statement....not even a hint of it...you stated it as a fact.

"It's ok with me. I don't feel the need to defend white people just because I'm mostly white. Why do you?"

I'm not defending anyone...just pointing out an inconsistency....

Who said anything about defending anyone?

You're making assumptions.

Either way, you like the Poetic license...good for you. Enjoy it. I'm not telling you not to listen.

[sinjin]

Re: If Music is the Key of Life than RAP music...

On the contrary Sinjin, I'm very interested in the discussion, that's why I'm having it. Whether you believe me or not, I respect your opinion, but you are the one stating things as fact, not me. My point is that is "glorifies" violence and the "gangsta" way of life. I didn't used the word "glorify" to ellicit a response...many of these songs do just that. "Local Pride" is a stretch by anyone's imagination. If you advocate lawlessness, like shooting cops, well, that obviously explains where you're coming from.

See now I thought you were stating that the lyrics glorify thug life as a fact. No? For future reference all words outside of quotations in my posts are my thoughts/opinions and do not represent the opinions of HT, its admins, sponsors or the white race in general.

And, like I said before...this sort of subject matter coming from NWA in 1988 is vastly different than someone making records in 2007. Now it's more mainstream and more likely to sell big numbers....My guess is that NWA were truly expressing their rage, without any thought as to becoming rich from it...thus making it more authentic, without pose or motivation, other than self expression. I doubt they figured on being an big influence on kids.

Not authentic any longer because things are so different in Compton nowadays?

Either way, Violence in Hip Hop will most likely continue as long as this stuff is the norm.

What country do you think you live in?

You said :
"As for the Imus thing: A black person can use certain terms without being perceived as denigrating the entire race since it is their own. Not the same thing for a white man to throw around those same terms."

There was no "In my opinion" added to that statement....not even a hint of it...you stated it as a fact.

see above.

I'm not defending anyone...just pointing out an inconsistency....

I see no inconsistency. White comedians can make black jokes if they think they can pull it off. Most can't. Apparently centuries of oppression can make some people touchy.

Either way, you like the Poetic license...good for you. Enjoy it. I'm not telling you not to listen.

Wouldn't do any good if you were. Same for the youth of America. That's my opinion of course.

[tutusue]

Re: If Music is the Key of Life than RAP music...

[...]Either way, Violence in Hip Hop will most likely continue as long as this stuff is the norm.[...]

And, it will continue as long as people continue to buy CDs and concert tickets...iow, as long as it makes money.

Sorry if my opinion is a redundant one. I don't have time to read the entire thread.

Lunch is over...back to work...

[Bard]

Re: If Music is the Key of Life than RAP music...

gimme all of it. Hardcore hip hop, rap, rock, punk, emo, jawaiian, master chanting, raggae, blues, bluegrass, cachicachi all of it. Just don't tell me who records the stuff, or I get all mortal and feel bad.

Now country music, yiiiick. Unless its bluegrass with serious banjo and tubthumping, otherwise I cannot deal.

May I recommend Country Rap Tune by Tow Down? It's pretty hilarious... heard it on the radio randomly one day during a road trip and I actually had to call the station and ask them what it was.

[Pua'i Mana'o]

Re: If Music is the Key of Life than RAP music...

May I recommend Country Rap Tune by Tow Down? It's pretty hilarious... heard it on the radio randomly one day during a road trip and I actually had to call the station and ask them what it was.

um, aside from the Gourds' cover of Snoop Dogg's "Gin and Juice" (which is quite catchy), I am not familar with country rap.