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  #1  
Old December 20th, 2012, 03:44 AM
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Default Curiosity Martian Probe

This unit is gradually driving around the surface of Mars.

The amount of microwave tech required to contact this machine boggles

the mind.

I think there are primitive forms of life on Mars but they will be found in

caves and lava tubes as compared to the harsh surface environment.

Communicating with a device underground will require a relay point.
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  #2  
Old December 20th, 2012, 11:58 AM
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Default Re: Curiosity Martian Probe

Here is the JPL Mars Science Lab site.
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  #3  
Old December 20th, 2012, 12:24 PM
Kalalau Kalalau is offline
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Default Re: Curiosity Martian Probe

Just yesterday Yahoo News had a story about a planet found about 5 light years from here that is in the liquid water zone for its star, so it has potential for life. Something has to be done to get around the speed of light speed limit if getting out even 5 light years is to ever be possible. But I remember as a kid being solemnly told in no uncertain terms that it was absolutely and forever impossible for humans to ever reach the moon, so...who knows? Seems little doubt, though, that if humans are going to colonize in space the first step will be the moon and Mars the second. Mars has the potential for being terraformed, oceans and an oxygen rich atmosphere added by directing ice ball asteroids into its atmosphere. All of course given some incomprehensible energy source. But what can be done usually is, eventually. This computer, even TV would be incomprehensible miracles to intelligent informed people at the start of the last century.
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Old December 20th, 2012, 01:27 PM
Ron Whitfield Ron Whitfield is offline
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Default Re: Curiosity Martian Probe

Why should we spread our civil disease any further? We've wasted our own earth for what's here now and failed the test as human beings. We've got rovers on Mars now, we know that everything is mostly made of the same stuff our planet is, and maybe we'll discover artifacts of prior civilization there as well. We don't need to worry about going to other solar systems, we need to work on us, and hope for an upgrade to D.
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  #5  
Old December 20th, 2012, 02:48 PM
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Default Re: Curiosity Martian Probe

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kalalau View Post
Seems little doubt, though, that if humans are going to colonize in space the first step will be the moon and Mars the second.
But there is some doubt. There is a proposal to send astronauts to Mars to Stay, and forget the moon. That saves money by not paying for a Moon base and not paying to get the astronauts back to Earth.
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  #6  
Old December 20th, 2012, 03:26 PM
Ron Whitfield Ron Whitfield is offline
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Default Re: Curiosity Martian Probe

We don't even have a grip on our own environment, we've tossed off further learning the important lessons right in our own backyard. We need to save and correct ourselves first, and those needs won't be found elsewhere.
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  #7  
Old December 20th, 2012, 04:31 PM
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Default Re: Curiosity Martian Probe

I think it is a basic drive, an instinct of life itself. From the first slime that grew on rocks, the first fish that emerged from the sea, it has gone on as long as there has been life; the Polynesian navigators who explored the entire Pacific, the Spanish navigators who explored the Atlantic. Its a biological drive like reproduction or breathing and eating--colonizing, expansion, we couldn't resist it even if we wanted to. Once humans evolved in Africa how long did it take humans to colonize Europe and Asia and eventually some human set foot on Tierra del Fuego. In fact some human set foot on Antarctica. And on the moon.
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Old December 20th, 2012, 04:57 PM
Ron Whitfield Ron Whitfield is offline
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Default Re: Curiosity Martian Probe

True, K, but there's still more extremely important discoveries here than to waste exploring any further in space than the moon and manned missions to Mars. The rovers are doing fine and maybe there's more concerning the moon we could benefit from, but way more at home. We've only scratched the surface here, where all our priority lessons to be learned are, but yet to be discovered. The $$$ it'll take to send man to Mars is better spent on issues we currently need to address.
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  #9  
Old December 21st, 2012, 03:30 AM
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Default Re: Curiosity Martian Probe

The early Polynesian voyagers set the pace for immense voyages across

uncharted seas

They did not let the naysayers


stop their early voyages across

uncharted waters.
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  #10  
Old January 5th, 2013, 12:41 AM
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Post Re: Curiosity Martian Probe

Curiosity Mars rover finds soil similar to Hawaii's!

Nasa's Curiosity rover has found soil on Mars to be similar to Hawaii's after sifting and scanning its first sample on the Red Planet. The robot's CheMin instrument shook out fine particles of soil and fired X-rays at them to determine their composition. These sandy samples should give clues about Mars' recent geological history. As had been theorised, much of the sample is made of weathered "basaltic" materials of volcanic origin, like that seen on the islands of Hawaii.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-20151789
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  #11  
Old January 8th, 2013, 10:48 AM
Kalalau Kalalau is offline
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Default Re: Curiosity Martian Probe

Amino acids have been found in several meteorites. That implies life might have developed somewhere in space before it ever got to Earth. Life does get around even when it is guided only by blind chance, like a hurricane blowing a wind borne seed to isolated islands in the middle of the North Pacific, or a meteor by blind chance happening to crash on earth billions of years ago. But life guided by lets say...intelligent design...(us)...has a much better chance of successfully colonizing islands, continents, or planets. Maybe if there actually is some drive guiding life evolution of an intelligent species, us, with the ability to create space travel, fits in.

I remember a time...driving down I-5 from Seattle to Portland in Seattle I noticed a yellow jacket climb in behind the outside mirror, and when we got to Portland it climbed back out and flew away. Interesting. I wondered if this just an isolated incident or if it was some behavior yellow jackets or other insects might have perfected over the last several decades. Insects so often seem to act with...intelligent design, purpose.
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  #12  
Old January 8th, 2013, 12:57 PM
Leo Lakio Leo Lakio is offline
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Default Re: Curiosity Martian Probe

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kalalau View Post
Amino acids have been found in several meteorites. That implies life might have developed somewhere in space before it ever got to Earth.
We are all alien parasites here, perhaps. Carl Sagan would remind us: "Some part of our being knows this is where we came from. We long to return. And we can. Because the cosmos is also within us. We're made of star-stuff. We are a way for the cosmos to know itself."

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  #13  
Old January 8th, 2013, 01:55 PM
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Default Re: Curiosity Martian Probe

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Originally Posted by Leo Lakio View Post
"We're made of star-stuff."
Let's not get carried away. Sagan is talking about elements, not molecules, amino acids, bacterial spores, or whatever.

Should we seed Mars with terrestrial organisms, to begin the process of terraforming?
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Old January 8th, 2013, 03:01 PM
Leo Lakio Leo Lakio is offline
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Default Re: Curiosity Martian Probe

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Originally Posted by GregLee View Post
Sagan is talking about elements, not molecules, amino acids, bacterial spores, or whatever.
And how do you propose the existence of the latter without the former, Greg?
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  #15  
Old January 8th, 2013, 05:23 PM
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Default Re: Curiosity Martian Probe

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Originally Posted by Leo Lakio View Post
And how do you propose the existence of the latter without the former, Greg?
I don't understand your question. I'm not implying that we could have extrasolar bacterial spores here without having extrasolar carbon. Rather, I'm saying that extrasolar carbon, what Sagan was mentioning, is uncontroversial science, while the presence of extrasolar bacterial spores is entirely conjectural. We are made of inorganic star-stuff. Earth might have the only life in the cosmos.
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  #16  
Old January 8th, 2013, 10:59 PM
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Default Re: Curiosity Martian Probe

Quote:
Originally Posted by Leo Lakio View Post
We are all alien parasites here, perhaps. Carl Sagan would remind us: "Some part of our being knows this is where we came from. We long to return. And we can. Because the cosmos is also within us. We're made of star-stuff. We are a way for the cosmos to know itself."

Great post, and spot on.

If human kind has any real desire to last the ages, the Earth is just a stepping stone, as home continents were just the first step in exploring the globe we call home.

The thought of a "Star Trek" like future, while possible for those that enlist, seems feasible, those will be people on a one way mission, imo.

Our biology just isn't as tuned to long term space exploration as we would like, YET.

We are all from the stars. Everything around us, the materials we depend on, all of it. . . from the cosmos. Pretty amazing.

I would love to see a manned moon, or martian outpost in my lifespan. I wish humanity could come together and function as a species, not race/creed/color/religious belief.

Another Sagan fave: If you want to make an apple pie, you must first create the universe.
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  #17  
Old January 9th, 2013, 12:22 PM
Leo Lakio Leo Lakio is offline
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Default Re: Curiosity Martian Probe

Quote:
Originally Posted by GregLee View Post
Let's not get carried away. Sagan is talking about elements, not molecules, amino acids, bacterial spores, or whatever.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Leo Lakio View Post
And how do you propose the existence of the latter without the former, Greg?
Quote:
Originally Posted by GregLee View Post
I don't understand your question. I'm not implying that we could have extrasolar bacterial spores here without having extrasolar carbon. Rather, I'm saying that extrasolar carbon, what Sagan was mentioning, is uncontroversial science, while the presence of extrasolar bacterial spores is entirely conjectural. We are made of inorganic star-stuff. Earth might have the only life in the cosmos.
You compared (in your words, inorganic) elements to molecules, etc. (which I am guessing you meant, by comparison, as organic).

To grab TATTRAT's Sagan quote (which needs a couple more words to gain the full impact, so I have added them back in): "If you want to make an apple pie from scratch, you must first create the universe"; Sagan's point is that everything comes from the same cosmic birthpoint (i.e., the Big Bang, followed by supernovae) - "out there," which drives our interest in interstellar exploration.

In your post, it appears you considered "elements" to not represent "life," but "molecules" and the rest to represent "life." How you clarify your distinction between "life" and "not life" - that's the crux of my question to you. Does that help?
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  #18  
Old January 9th, 2013, 01:26 PM
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Default Re: Curiosity Martian Probe

Quote:
Originally Posted by Leo Lakio View Post
In your post, it appears you considered "elements" to not represent "life," but "molecules" and the rest to represent "life." How you clarify your distinction between "life" and "not life" - that's the crux of my question to you. Does that help?
No, I don't know what you're getting at. If you're trying to tell me that living things are made up of elements, yes, I knew that. The heavier elements, including carbon, came from distant stars, but the complex molecules of living things did not, so far as is known. If you want me to distinguish living from non-living matter, I'll have to abstain, since I know only enough about that to know that it's rather difficult to do.
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Old January 9th, 2013, 04:05 PM
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Default Re: Curiosity Martian Probe

On the question of distinguishing living from non-living matter, there is a summary here of Erwin Schrödinger's 1944 book What is Life?.

I've run across a website explaining a theory proposing more or less the opposite of what I said above:
Quote:
Cosmic Ancestry is a new theory pertaining to evolution and the origin of life on Earth. It holds that life on Earth was seeded from space, and that life's evolution to higher forms depends on genetic programs that come from space. (It accepts the Darwinian account of evolution that does not require new genetic programs.) It is a wholly scientific, testable theory for which evidence is accumulating.
...
This account of evolution and the origin of life on Earth is profoundly different from the prevailing scientific paradigm. The new theory challenges not merely the answers but the questions that are popular today. Cosmic Ancestry implies, we find, that life can only descend from ancestors at least as highly evolved as itself. And it means, we believe, that there can be no origin of life from nonbiological matter. Without supernatural intervention, therefore, we conclude that life must have always existed.
http://www.panspermia.org/intro.htm
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Last edited by GregLee; January 9th, 2013 at 04:33 PM.
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  #20  
Old January 9th, 2013, 06:29 PM
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Post Re: Curiosity Martian Probe

NASA Home> Missions> Mars Science Laboratory= Curiosity Mars Rover!

http://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/msl/index.html
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  #21  
Old January 10th, 2013, 04:08 AM
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Default Re: Curiosity Martian Probe

Some of the original templates for order are found in the properties of the 98
elements normally found in these parts.

The primordial soup was already very organised about 500 million
years ago

and has aggregated along the lines of poker odds.

In the end, it's all math.
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  #22  
Old May 8th, 2013, 02:26 AM
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Default Re: Curiosity Martian Probe

http://science.nbcnews.com/_news/201...id=msnhp&pos=4

They're accepting applications.
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  #23  
Old May 8th, 2013, 03:05 AM
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Default Re: Curiosity Martian Probe

I am pretty sure there has to be some living ecosystems still living

on Mars.

The deepest canyon on Mars has areas where a higher atmospheric pressure could exist and foster better conditions for the continuance of still extant lifeforms.

I remember the first time I hiked into the Grand Canyon,at Indian Springs Camp,

All was warm.

At the rim of the Canyon the temps were frosty.
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  #24  
Old May 11th, 2013, 04:10 AM
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Default Re: Curiosity Martian Probe

Adding a little ramble here.

A good portion of the Martian landscape is of volcanic origin.

There are probably at least a few lava caves on the planet.

There are starting to emerge from the Martian data, actual pictures of possible skylights into old lava flows.

Even though the Martian planet is old and barren on its surface,

There is no doubt a huge amount of geothermal heat still at its core..
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  #25  
Old May 23rd, 2013, 10:02 PM
Walkoff Balk Walkoff Balk is offline
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Default Re: Curiosity Martian Probe

http://news.yahoo.com/more-evidence-...144337304.html

Mo wada found on Mars.
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