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  #1  
Old August 24th, 2012, 09:32 AM
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Angry Mass shooting at Empire State Building

Here is the latest sugar high for all you GUN NUTS out there! More people shot, more people dead. What is it going to take to wake up the most violent society in the industrialized world?

This is insane. STRICT GUN CONTROL NOW!
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  #2  
Old August 24th, 2012, 02:37 PM
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Default Re: Mass shooting at Empire State Building

The bigger picture is how to address the violence in society. This report about the killing included:
Quote:
The gunfire came less than two weeks after a knife-wielding man was shot dead by police near another tourist-saturated part of the city
.
Unless you mean the actual topic of the thread to be "gun control"?
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  #3  
Old August 24th, 2012, 05:21 PM
Ron Whitfield Ron Whitfield is offline
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Default Re: Mass shooting at Empire State Building

Strict knife control now!
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  #4  
Old August 24th, 2012, 06:14 PM
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Default Re: Mass shooting at Empire State Building

Please guys, do not hijack the thread. We are talking about "shooting" which implies guns. Do the polite thing and start your own thread if you want to talk about knives.

There has been an increase in gun violence over the years as more guns are incorporated into the population. I advocate for STRICT GUN CONTROL NOW!
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Old August 24th, 2012, 06:47 PM
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Default Re: Mass shooting at Empire State Building

I think of all the victims the ones I feel sorriest for are the students at Columbine High. So young. So naive. Still under the protection of their parents' wings, boys and girls so innocent and young, truly they had their glorious happy teen years ripped away and destroyed. Sometimes I put myself in their shoes, how it would have been at age 15 or 16 in the lunch room to suddenly see dozens of friends shot, bodies torn apart. Its bad enough when adult soldiers have to experience that carnage, but children! How f'd up their heads will be for the rest of their lives. And not just the ones who actually witnessed the carnage, but all the students at that school, those who had friends who were slaughtered and mangled and those who didn't happen to know any of the victims.

I guess its kind of like getting on an airplane, you just hope it will be one of the 99.999% that has a pleasant uneventful flight. So you send your kids to school or go to a theater or go to a mall and just assure yourself the odds are strongly on your side that you or your kids will not become a victim. You play the odds.
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Old August 24th, 2012, 07:53 PM
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Default Re: Mass shooting at Empire State Building

Not that I don't wish for the same end as you, mata, but if guns are gone there'll be more meat cleaver mass murders, like we've seen happen. Horrendous actions are where we are as a society, cleaning up Dodge City of guns isn't going to change things much, and I want availability to mass protection.
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Old August 24th, 2012, 08:52 PM
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Default Re: Mass shooting at Empire State Building

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron Whitfield View Post
Not that I don't wish for the same end as you, mata, but if guns are gone there'll be more meat cleaver mass murders, like we've seen happen. Horrendous actions are where we are as a society, cleaning up Dodge City of guns isn't going to change things much, and I want availability to mass protection.
You have a right to your opinion and I have a right to vociferously disagree. I could go into detail where your perception is full of inaccuracies, but that would be futile on my part and lead to meaningless argument.

It is my fervent hope that you are not a victim of gun violence, ever.

Blesed Be, Ron.
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Old August 24th, 2012, 11:05 PM
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Default Re: Mass shooting at Empire State Building

I don't see my previous comment as hijacking a thread. My commentary was on the bigger picture of violence in society as a whole, with an example of another type of violence that was reported in an article on the very incident you referred to.
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Old August 24th, 2012, 11:08 PM
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Lightbulb Re: Mass shooting at Empire State Building

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron Whitfield View Post
if guns are gone there'll be more meat cleaver mass murders, like we've seen happen. Horrendous actions are where we are as a society, cleaning up Dodge City of guns isn't going to change things much, and I want availability to mass protection.
Well said, Ron. Strict gun laws will only create a bloodbath by making citizens powerless to defend themselves from criminals. When will people like matapule learn that the majority of those who commit crimes with guns obtained their weapon illegally in the first place? New laws will have no effect - except to make law-abiding citizens more vulnerable. Duh! Here's a much closer look at the Empire incident from the New York Times:

Long Before Carnage, an Office Grudge Festered
By MICHAEL WILSON, DAVID M. HALBFINGER and SHARON OTTERMAN
Published: August 24, 2012


Quote:
Mr. Johnson left his East 82nd Street walk-up in his suit, as he did every other day. And Mr. Ercolino took the PATH train from Hoboken, N.J., where he lived with his girlfriend, to the West 33rd Street building near Fifth Avenue. A co-worker saw him and shouted for him to wait, then they walked toward the entrance together. They were almost there when the co-worker, Irene Timan, 35, saw Mr. Johnson lurking behind a white van.

“I saw him pull a gun out from his jacket, and I thought to myself, ‘Oh my God, he’s going to shoot him’ — and I wanted to turn and push Steve out of the way,” Ms. Timan said. “But it was too late. Steve screamed, Jeff shot him, and I just turned and ran.”
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  #10  
Old August 25th, 2012, 12:03 AM
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Question Re: Mass shooting at Empire State Building

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Originally Posted by matapule View Post
Blesed Be, Ron.
"The phrase “blessed be” is found in many modern magical traditions. Although it appears in some Pagan paths, it’s typically more likely to be used in a NeoWiccan context. It’s a traditional greeting, and to say “Blessed be” to someone indicates that you wish good and positive things upon them. It is also a secret signal that the person is a part of a Pagan group, and an indicator you may have things in common.

The phrase’s origins are a bit more murky. It is part of a longer ritual which is included in some Gardnerian Wiccan initiation ceremonies. During that rite, the High Priest or High Priestess delivers what it known as the Five Fold Kiss." (erotic elements truncated).

? ? ?
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  #11  
Old August 25th, 2012, 12:18 AM
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Default Re: Mass shooting at Empire State Building

Whatever. I've been so blessed in this life I can only imagine the hell awaiting me at some point. Payback is gonna be more than a bitch.
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Old August 25th, 2012, 12:58 AM
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Cool Re: Mass police massacre at Empire State Building

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Originally Posted by TuNnL View Post
Well said, Ron. Strict gun laws will only create a bloodbath by making citizens powerless to defend themselves from criminals. When will people like matapule learn that the majority of those who commit crimes with guns obtained their weapon illegally in the first place? New laws will have no effect - except to make law-abiding citizens more vulnerable. Duh! Here's a much closer look at the Empire incident from the New York Times:

Long Before Carnage, an Office Grudge Festered
By MICHAEL WILSON, DAVID M. HALBFINGER and SHARON OTTERMAN
Published: August 24, 2012
According to Mayor Bloomberg, it seems like the original shooter only shot one (1) person (a personal argument), and the police, in their attempt to shoot the shooter, shot eight innocent citizens.

Time to disarm the police. Arm the citizens; they do less damage.
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  #13  
Old August 25th, 2012, 01:27 AM
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Default Re: Mass shooting at Empire State Building

I have been reading the CNN web site of this event and I know any loss of life is tragic but this and the College Station, TX shooting incident are kind of different from the Aurora, CO and the Oak Creek, WI shootings which the later mentioned incidents are acts of unrelated terrorism at public places.

The College Station shooting seemed that the gunman who started it was at home, while the New York City event was just a killing of one person and then it got worse during the getaway.
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Old August 25th, 2012, 01:57 AM
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Cool Police shoot innocents at Empire State Building

Quote:
Originally Posted by matapule View Post
Here is the latest sugar high for all you GUN NUTS out there! More people shot, more people dead. What is it going to take to wake up the most violent society in the industrialized world?

This is insane. STRICT GUN CONTROL NOW!
Perhaps the insanity is elsewhere.

What is going to wake up YOU????

The most gun-controlled places in the USA are also the most violent. Or have you not been listening? Obviously, you have not. Did you ignore the valid statistics I posted?

The most violent countries in Central America are having people come to the USA to ESCAPE gun violence! Duh.

The NRA recently released a report that said: with the coming presidential election, more anti-gun nuts are going to try to convince people to re-elect Obama, who is negotiating with the UN to put our gun rights in foreign hands. I guess they saw YOU coming!

It appears that you are a pawn of the ultra-rich, like George Soros, who want to have their armed guards but want to deny protection for honest citizens.

Police protection? Mayor Bloomberg himself admitted that eight of the nine people shot in New York were shot by police!

"8 Of Those Injured In Shooting Were Shot By Police
From The Village Voice:
Mayor Mike Bloomberg confirmed at a press conference this morning that there's a chance some of the victims were accidentally shot by police who were trying to take out the initial gunman, 53-year-old Jeffery Johnson. We're told eight of those wounded were shot by police, who were returning fire at Johnson, who pointed a 45-caliber handgun at officers and witnesses say fired at least one round. However, it's unclear whether he actually fired the weapon.
Before any alarm bells are rung, it should be noted that Johnson drew his gun on officers before fatally meeting the business end of a cop's service weapon, so the police were more than justified in taking him out. But the fact remains: eight people were shot by police this morning."
The NRA, who you seem to despise, is the ONE organization that is really trying to stop accidental gun violence. They have free classes on the safe storage and handling of firearms, open to every man, woman and child - even to anti-gun nuts.

Mata, I share your Pagan respect for life, but even Pagans realize eventually we all die. Whether by gun, accident, age or disease, we all die. Our world is already overpopulated. Violence is not a disease, but a symptom.

My opinion - you are seriously deluded. You have been brainwashed and tricked by some anti-gun political faction that wants to take away our rights and control our actions.

You are entitled by our BILL OF RIGHTS FREEDOMS, one of which is the second amendment you seem to hate, to not only have your opinion, but to spew your vile propaganda in sensationalist fashion anywhere you choose - in America, anyway.

Your posts border on lies. This was hardly a mass shooting; one man shot another, and the police shot eight innocent civilians. Typical.

Your spew should be: "Strict Police Control Now!"

I know this won't change your tack, but at least other, innocent readers may not be fooled by you any longer.
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  #15  
Old August 25th, 2012, 03:32 AM
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Default Re: Mass shooting at Empire State Building

In the event of an extreme emergency, typewriters are thrown at whoever is invading.

See "Mars Attacks"
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Old August 25th, 2012, 03:47 AM
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Post Re: Mass shooting at Empire State Building

Quote:
Originally Posted by TuNnL View Post
"Strict gun laws will only create a bloodbath by making citizens powerless to defend themselves from criminals. When will people like matapule learn that the majority of those who commit crimes with guns obtained their weapon illegally in the first place? New laws will have no effect - except to make law-abiding citizens more vulnerable."
Thanks TuNnl! Facts based on truth.
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Old August 25th, 2012, 04:30 PM
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Exclamation Re: Police shoot innocents at Empire State Building

The most gun-controlled places in the USA are also the most violent. Or have you not been listening? Obviously, you have not. Did you ignore the valid statistics I posted?

Well here they are again!

Matapule claims the US is the industrialized nation with the most violence?

BS, an an open-faced lie.

Murder rates
USA 4.2

Other industrialized nations:
Brazil 21
Russia 10.2
Venezuela 45.1

Many other pre-industrialized nations have rates well exceeding those.
India has more actual intentional deaths than any country in the world, and they, too are an industrialized nation.
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  #18  
Old August 25th, 2012, 05:12 PM
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Default Re: Mass shooting at Empire State Building

Strict industrialization control now?
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Old August 25th, 2012, 07:45 PM
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Default Re: Mass shooting at Empire State Building

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Originally Posted by TuNnL View Post
Well said, Ron. Strict gun laws will only create a bloodbath by making citizens powerless to defend themselves from criminals.
Is that an opinion or fact based on substantiated research? If so provide a link (other than the NRA).

Quote:
When will people like matapule learn that the majority of those who commit crimes with guns obtained their weapon illegally in the first place?
Link?

Quote:
New laws will have no effect - except to make law-abiding citizens more vulnerable. Duh!
Link?
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Old August 25th, 2012, 07:58 PM
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Default Re: Mass shooting at Empire State Building

There are more than 129,817 federally licensed firearms dealers in the United States, according to the latest Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives numbers (as of Aug. 1) . Of those, 51,438 are retail gun stores, 7,356 are pawn shops and 61,562 are collectors, with the balance of the licenses belonging mostly to manufacturers and importers of firearms and destructive devices.

For comparison, here are some numbers of other ubiquitous elements of American life:

* Gas Stations in the U.S. (2011): 143,839 (source TD LINX/Nielsen via National Associations of Convenience Stores, Association for Convenience for Convenience and Fuel Retailing)
* Grocery Stores in the U.S. (2011) 36,569 (source: Food Marketing Institute)
* McDonald’s restaurants in the U.S. (2011): 14,098 (Source: McDonald’s Corporation Annual Report 2011)

But unlike burgers, gas and groceries, firearms are not a perishable or consumable product. They don’t go away. A rifle used in the 2009 Holocaust Museum shooting was nearly 100 years old, but was still an effective murder weapon.

According to ATF reports, in 2010 there were 5,459,240 new firearms manufactured in the United States, nearly all (95 percent) for the U.S. market. An additional 3,252,404 firearms were imported to the United States.

Right now if you don’t have a criminal record and you have not been adjudicated as mentally incompetent, you can buy guns. In 2010 the National Instant Criminal Background Check System (NICS) ran 16,454,951 background checks for firearms purchases. Only a small number of these purchases (78,211 or 0.48 percent) were denied.

Since 1998 there have been more than 151 million NICS checks. Each check doesn’t necessarily represent a single gun, just a single transaction. If one were to purchase two guns at one time, there would only be one check.

Violent crime rates have been falling in recent years, but the number of people killed by firearms in the United States remains high. According to the FBI Uniform Crime Report, between 2006 and 2010 47,856 people were murdered in the U.S. by firearms, more than twice as many as were killed by all other means combined.
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  #21  
Old August 25th, 2012, 10:23 PM
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Post Re: Mass shooting at Empire State Building

Those are incredible and interesting facts matapule.
During my time up in Idaho, I felt out of place in the gun society it has.
But truthfully, there is a security in folks that grew up with guns and have a respect for them.

It's a bummer that America has soooo many guns out there.
The more 'good' citizens that have guns the better. IMO
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  #22  
Old August 26th, 2012, 03:47 AM
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Default Re: Mass shooting at Empire State Building

With respect to all, it should be noted that the Iraqui populace was one of the most heavily armed on earth prior to some haphazard events of late.

The companies that sold arms to Saddam during the Iran/Iraq war are still around

and doing quite nicely.

Supra national bankers sitting at Zurich mansions smoking Cuban cigars and

drinking the best aged Brandy.

War takes money, and those who control the funds

mastermind the wars.
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Old August 26th, 2012, 06:04 AM
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Default Re: Mass shooting at Empire State Building

Frankly, Matapule I fail to see your problem.

We are doing betten than that average for intentional deaths, and firearms are only a wall part of the deaths that do occur in the U.S.

Granted, we can improve, if people would take NRA courses.

Actually, in Hawaii, it it mandatory to take an NRA or equivalent course before you procure a weapon. I applaud this strategy! Education is the best defense against firearm offense.

It is not that we must limit firearms, for how many firearms can a criminal carry?
Law abiding citizens have firearms for various reasons- hunting birds, pigs, deer, self protection, law enforcement, home protection, etc., all of which are valid.

But you cannot carry all those at one tome.

We need to prevent fully automatic weapons or military grade explosive weapons from civilian hands.

Strict gun control????? You have never - NEVER, explained exactly what you mean by that.

Pease put up or shut up.


orcement
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Old August 26th, 2012, 06:09 AM
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Default Re: Mass shooting at Empire State Building

Quote:
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Is that an opinion or fact based on substantiated research? If so provide a link (other than the NRA).
What...? Are you discriminating against the NRA? Their statistics are the tightest statistics in this whole argument.

This is like saying it is OK to debate Roman Catholicism, as long as you don'T listen to the Pope.

Get real!

By the way, I already posted the facts in this thread (post 17) and in another thread. I guess you ignored them, because they DID NOT come from the NRA?
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Old August 26th, 2012, 07:07 AM
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Talking Re: Mass shooting at Empire State Building

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Violent crime rates have been falling in recent years, but the number of people killed by firearms in the United States remains high. According to the FBI Uniform Crime Report, between 2006 and 2010 47,856 people were murdered in the U.S. by firearms, more than twice as many as were killed by all other means combined.
Thank you for that acknowledgement - you have the NRA to thank, because their free classes on firearm safety are changing the face of America.
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