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  #26  
Old November 2nd, 2010, 02:16 PM
bjd392 bjd392 is offline
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Default Re: The most dangerous drug

Quote:
Originally Posted by GregLee View Post
if you looked at the death certificates of these hundreds of thousands of people supposedly killed by tobacco, you would never see tobacco listed as the cause of death.
I don't think a death certificate will mention something like that. It's always some technical term. A friend I knew for a long time was a habitual smoker, and he died of a heart attack in his sleep. We all knew it was the effects of smoking for over 50 years, but the death certificate only said "myocardial infarction." Everyone else can imply that it was "brought on by decades of smoking."

But the same can be said about DUI deaths as well. It'll be mentioned as "blunt trauma to the ..." or some other impact description, but won't mention alcohol.

One of the few occasions where alcohol will be mentioned in a death certificate is if the actual death came from a binge overdose. Otherwise, the habitual alcoholic will be listed as "cirrhosis of the liver" or some other affected organ failure.

Similarly, it is agreed that death certificates do have an under-reporting of the layman's term of what killed someone. Researchers who use death certificate statistics won't get their numbers from there; they would have to get it from the police reports or medical examiner reports, and not the block on the certificate stating "cause of death."
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  #27  
Old November 2nd, 2010, 03:31 PM
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Default Re: The most dangerous drug

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Originally Posted by bjd392 View Post
Researchers who use death certificate statistics won't get their numbers from there; they would have to get it from the police reports or medical examiner reports, and not the block on the certificate stating "cause of death."
If you read the reference I gave, you will see that the numbers we are discussing that are given for causes of death also do not come from police reports or medical examiner reports.
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  #28  
Old November 2nd, 2010, 04:07 PM
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Default Re: The most dangerous drug

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And I'll just make the obvious point that if you looked at the death certificates of these hundreds of thousands of people supposedly killed by tobacco, you would never see tobacco listed as the cause of death.
That's true. To use an anecdotal example. My father smoked for over 30 years. Then 30 years after he quit, he contracted two different forms of cancer, neither of them lung cancer. His physician told me they were the result of smoking - 30 years ago. He later died of "natural causes" but his body was ravaged by the cancer.
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  #29  
Old November 2nd, 2010, 04:27 PM
bjd392 bjd392 is offline
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Default Re: The most dangerous drug

@Greg.
Right, the article doesn't refer to police or medical reports. Yes, I did quote you in the beginning of my response. However, the last paragraph of my post you were referring to was meant to be the a continuation of my topic of alcohol, DUIs or (not mentioned) curious deaths. So I apologize if that sounded like a disagreement on your smoking issue posting or article.

Having some familiarity with police reports (mostly traffic related), the officer will put in alcohol as a primary collision factor if it is deemed so by toxicology. The death certificate may only say "blunt trauma..."

But I also agree with you in the sense that smoking is merely a shadow when it comes to some of the under-reporting of the issue.
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  #30  
Old November 2nd, 2010, 05:30 PM
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Default Re: The most dangerous drug

Cool Stats Greg. Great page. Sort of jives with the numbers in that other page.

435,000 Smoking Attributable Deaths, give or take.

Looking at a few different statistic based website, I found that they all agree, more or less, on a number of about 20,000 illicit drug related deaths per year in the USA. Even if you pretend that the numbers are somehow skewed by 50%, it's still overwhelming evidence that ciggys are numero uno.

To argue that ciggys are NOT the most dangerous drug is akin to the argument that goes like this.....

Please do not confuse me with facts or statistics. I have already decided.
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  #31  
Old November 3rd, 2010, 03:11 PM
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Default Re: The most dangerous drug

Oops, my boo-boo.
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Last edited by salmoned; November 3rd, 2010 at 03:17 PM.
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  #32  
Old November 3rd, 2010, 03:17 PM
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Default Re: The most dangerous drug

bjd392 -
"If people complain that drugs prematurely kill us, some can also complain that medical drugs are allowing us to live too long."

Oooh, love that. I've recently been thinking that medicine ranks right up there with religion when considering perversions of natural law and the paradox of our civilization's foundational 'beliefs'. Not sure how that affects Mary Baker Eddy's lunatic/genius/saint status, though.
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  #33  
Old November 3rd, 2010, 03:57 PM
bjd392 bjd392 is offline
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I don't know, salmoned. I'm guessing since death is such a natural conclusion to life, sometimes we go too far to preserve someone and prevent them from taking their natural course. Drug them up and hope for the "best." Granted, for survivable injuries and accidents, please do what you can to save; but, only until it appears grim.

I am personally a DNR requestee if I'm a veg. Given a diagnosis of a terminal illness, I'd probably ask for little more than that amount of time to bring closure. But shooting me up with pain meds and letting me sleep all day in an effort to preserve me is not my style. It lends to some of my background when it comes to "death" topics like Capital Punishment, Euthanasia, Suicide, Do-Not-Resus, Organ Donation. It's certainly where far-left and far-right extremes make me the +0.41 moderate.
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  #34  
Old November 4th, 2010, 01:01 AM
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Default Re: The most dangerous drug

It was hard for me to give up smoking tobacco, but I did it at age 21; I replaced it with pot.

Marijuana was always easy to take or leave (not addicting), and never caused me problems.

It was easy to keep drinking ETOH (alcohol), and eventually it was hard to stop!

I've tried speed, downers and other such, but was not interested (addicting).

I LOVE acid and mushrooms, but only do them infrequently; not addicting.

Tobacco was the one drug most likely to kill me; it killed my mother at age 60 (lung cancer); my dad stopped at 50 and lived to 85.

Stop while you yet live.
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  #35  
Old November 4th, 2010, 01:43 AM
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Default Re: The most dangerous drug

Just a small suggestion that the most dangerous drug is fed to every member of our civilization, cradle to grave. Unfortunately, it's not only dangerous to us - it threatens many other living beings and species with which we share this planet.
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  #36  
Old November 4th, 2010, 08:24 AM
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Default Re: The most dangerous drug

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I am personally a DNR requestee
Me too. Both my parents signed DNR health care directives. When my my mother reached that point at 87, my sister (the only daughter and youngest) said what are we going to do? We've got to keep her alive. Cooler heads had to sit down and explain to her what it was the our mother wanted, not what she wanted.

It's all good.
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  #37  
Old November 4th, 2010, 11:05 AM
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Default Re: The most dangerous drug

Cigs don't universally kill people, a neighbor lady lived to 87 and smoked every day of her adult life. I think it was Andy Kaufman who never smoked, but got lung cancer. Maybe Steve McQueen, too. Last year we had a cat die of lung cancer, what a sweet baby she was...she'd sit on the wall, watching the street for me to come home, then trot down to greet me with a big cat smile on her face, I'd pick her up, she'd shyly kiss me on the nose. We adopted her from a guy who smoked, possibly she got the cancer from his smoking. Both my parents smoked, I inhaled all that smoke as a baby and as a kid. We lived in a house with asbestos shingles for a few years. Its kind of amazing I am here.
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  #38  
Old November 4th, 2010, 12:31 PM
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Default Re: The most dangerous drug

http://www.newser.com/story/104551/c...kills-man.html

Just another DRUG that folks love here in Kona.
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  #39  
Old November 7th, 2010, 01:11 AM
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Wink Re: The most dangerous drug

birth causes death...everything else is a genetic lottery
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  #40  
Old November 7th, 2010, 09:59 PM
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Default Re: The most dangerous drug

From our archives:

http://hawaiithreads.com/showthread....&highlight=ice

Auntie Lynn
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  #41  
Old November 8th, 2010, 07:18 AM
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Default Re: The most dangerous drug

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Originally Posted by 1stwahine View Post
Yes, I agree that Ice is a huge problem in Hawaii. But it is virtually unheard of on the mainland. Which is why, I think, that you don't see it in the literature much.

My son is trained as a drug & alcohol councilor. He taught me how to identify an ice addict from the way they walk and talk. He also says that ice is one of the hardest to kick. Yeah - it's up there with smoking cigs......... but kills you faster.
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  #42  
Old November 8th, 2010, 07:22 AM
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Default Re: The most dangerous drug

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Originally Posted by matapule View Post
That's true. To use an anecdotal example. My father smoked for over 30 years. Then 30 years after he quit, he contracted two different forms of cancer, neither of them lung cancer. His physician told me they were the result of smoking - 30 years ago. He later died of "natural causes" but his body was ravaged by the cancer.
I'm sorry, but give me a break!!! One thing I have learned is that most physicians are puppets that spit out what the AMA and drug companies want them to say! 30 years? Geesh. Their OWN guidelines for cancer "cure" is to be 5 years without cancer. I have serious issues with blaming your father's cancer on smoking if he quit 30 years prior.
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  #43  
Old November 8th, 2010, 09:59 AM
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Default Re: The most dangerous drug

Quote:
Originally Posted by acousticlady View Post
Yes, I agree that Ice is a huge problem in Hawaii. But it is virtually unheard of on the mainland. Which is why, I think, that you don't see it in the literature much.


http://www.methresources.gov/methbystate.html

"Which State has the biggest problem on Meth Use?"

"Meth is bad everywhere. Top worst states for meth include Montana, Texas, Nevada, and in just about any region. The worst state is actually is in the Midwest being Missouri, and it has been so for the past nine years."


Here's a video pertaining to the question: http://www.fox2now.com/news/ktvi-met...0,897774.story

All you have to do is "google!"
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Last edited by 1stwahine; November 8th, 2010 at 10:02 AM.
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  #44  
Old November 8th, 2010, 06:11 PM
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Default Re: The most dangerous drug

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1stwahine View Post
http://www.methresources.gov/methbystate.html

"Which State has the biggest problem on Meth Use?"

"Meth is bad everywhere. Top worst states for meth include Montana, Texas, Nevada, and in just about any region. The worst state is actually is in the Midwest being Missouri, and it has been so for the past nine years."


Here's a video pertaining to the question: http://www.fox2now.com/news/ktvi-met...0,897774.story

All you have to do is "google!"
I was told that the specific form of meth known as ice is kind of like cocaine and crack - both are forms of cocaine. But the treatment of the cocaine to create crack makes crack more addictive. Same way with ice. And that was the form prevalent in Hawaii.

After "googling" , it seems that just the name ice is more common - just another way to say crystal meth?

Learn something new everyday......... oops - different thread
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  #45  
Old November 8th, 2010, 06:26 PM
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Default Re: The most dangerous drug

Quote:
Originally Posted by acousticlady View Post
I was told that the specific form of meth known as ice is kind of like cocaine and crack - both are forms of cocaine. But the treatment of the cocaine to create crack makes crack more addictive. Same way with ice. And that was the form prevalent in Hawaii.

After "googling" , it seems that just the name ice is more common - just another way to say crystal meth?

Learn something new everyday......... oops - different thread
AuntiePupule Ice/Coke 101:

Ice/Meth is man made from chemicals.
Cocaine is a Plant can be used in Powder, injected, and smoked (Cracked).
http://www.drug-information-resource...s.php?album=11
http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=...E5KisQO_6ZS3Bw


Big difference. And both are available in Hawaii as well as all over the US. The fight continues to stop this evil which ravages our society.

Auntie Lynn
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Last edited by 1stwahine; November 8th, 2010 at 06:31 PM.
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  #46  
Old November 8th, 2010, 07:18 PM
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Default Re: The most dangerous drug

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1stwahine View Post
AuntiePupule Ice/Coke 101:

Ice/Meth is man made from chemicals.
Cocaine is a Plant can be used in Powder, injected, and smoked (Cracked).

Big difference. And both are available in Hawaii as well as all over the US. The fight continues to stop this evil which ravages our society.

Auntie Lynn
Nooo .... I was making an analogy. Meth and it's cousin Ice are similar the the relation between cocaine and crack. I know they are completely different drugs.
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  #47  
Old November 8th, 2010, 09:22 PM
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Originally Posted by acousticlady View Post
Meth and it's cousin Ice are similar the the relation between cocaine and crack. I know they are completely different drugs.
Re: Crank, Ice, Meth
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
It doesn't matter what it's called, it is all meth.

http://www.kci.org/meth_info/msg_boa...nk-and-ice.htm
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  #48  
Old November 8th, 2010, 09:23 PM
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Default Re: The most dangerous drug

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Originally Posted by acousticlady View Post
Nooo .... I was making an analogy. Meth and it's cousin Ice are similar the the relation between cocaine and crack. I know they are completely different drugs.
I think you're thinking crank vs ice. Crank is the lower quality powder compared to the more refined form of ice where crystal is even more refined, but it's all meth.
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  #49  
Old November 8th, 2010, 09:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peshkwe View Post
I think you're thinking crank vs ice. Crank is the lower quality powder compared to the more refined form of ice where crystal is even more refined, but it's all meth.
Mahalo Peshkwe.
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  #50  
Old November 8th, 2010, 09:56 PM
Peshkwe Peshkwe is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1stwahine View Post
Mahalo Peshkwe.

S'ok

I've seen pink, beige and white crank, and the crystal but never the between stage of ice.

I knew a speed freak over in Germany, she was Air Force air traffic control....real twitchy too. I tried it a couple times, it made me go to sleep....but I'm ADD so it probably acted like Ritalin.
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