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  #51  
Old December 1st, 2009, 12:23 PM
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Default Re: Sandra Maloney v. The Peacock

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Originally Posted by Kaonohi View Post
I would guess than neither you nor hizzonner have had the experience of living in close proximity to a clade of peacocks and peahens.
No, but being human, I do take advantage of the fact that I can make a careful and thoughtful choice on selecting the best place to live for me and my family. And if a certain property is close to the habitat of noisy, wild animals, then that certainly has to be taken into account before signing the deal. But that's just me. Maybe other people leap before looking when it comes to that kind of stuff, like Sandra Maloney. Oh well.
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  #52  
Old December 1st, 2009, 02:04 PM
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Default Re: Sandra Maloney v. The Peacock

She didn't just kill it, did she? I hope she didn't waste all that lovely meat...I hope she had the good sense to pluck and draw the bird and then eat it.
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  #53  
Old December 1st, 2009, 02:53 PM
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Default Re: Sandra Maloney v. The Peacock

http://www.yumsugar.com/883996
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  #54  
Old December 1st, 2009, 05:37 PM
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Default Re: Sandra Maloney v. The Peacock

And it's a home run!!!
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  #55  
Old December 1st, 2009, 10:32 PM
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Wink Re: Sandra Maloney v. The Peacock

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Originally Posted by Frankie's Market View Post
No, but being human, I do take advantage of the fact that I can make a careful and thoughtful choice on selecting the best place to live for me and my family. And if a certain property is close to the habitat of noisy, wild animals, then that certainly has to be taken into account before signing the deal. But that's just me. Maybe other people leap before looking when it comes to that kind of stuff, like Sandra Maloney. Oh well.
Heh, heh.

Some things just are not as obvious to everyone other than yourself.

Most people see peafowl at parks and such, and think "how pretty." They don't stay there all day and night to check out if they are just pretty or overwhelmingly obnoxious at certain times.

Obviously you already know everything, and just as obviously the real estate data mentioned peacocks as being obnoxious pests as well as decorative assets. Shouldn't everyone know this anyway? Even if they haven't been exposed to peafowl 24/7? Jeez, didn't they read their encyclopedia?

Well, you know what? Some people are human, and they make mistakes. And they make choices they later regret, because they are not perfect.

Unlike you, I guess? How fortunate you must be; won't you help the rest of us out of our primitive morass?

Granted, it is incumbent upon each of us to be informed, and we are responsible for our choices and our actions. Have you made no mistakes? Have no regrets? Come, teach us your wisdom! We sorely need it.

Oh, and yes, some people do leap - it's called an emotional reaction. Some people do have emotions, you know. And probably 99.9% of us are not perfect. Strangely though, there's a significant percentage above 0.1% who believe they are! (Not you, of course, as you already said you are "human.")

Hope you can still take some good natured ribbing, as I have from you in the past.

K
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  #56  
Old December 1st, 2009, 11:23 PM
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Default Re: Sandra Maloney v. The Peacock

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Most people see peafowl at parks and such, and think "how pretty." They don't stay there all day and night to check out if they are just pretty or overwhelmingly obnoxious at certain times.
Speaking for myself, my sympathy for the wild peacocks in Makaha lie not in their physical appearance, but by the fact that those birds have inhabited that area for over a century. In contrast, Sandra Maloney moved into her apartment five years ago. Should the bludgeoning of the peacock be justified because a relative "newcomer" is irritated by the noise? No doubt in some people's mind, whenever there's a conflict between the interests of wildlife and human, the latter should always win out. If an urban development project encroaches on the breeding grounds of an animal species, then too bad for the wildlife. If a fishery uses nets that maximizes the catching of tuna at the expense of snagging and killing sea turtles and dolphins, then too bad for the latter. Might makes right in some people's mind. I don't subscribe to that way of thinking. But if other people do, then they are certainly entitled to it.

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Originally Posted by Kaonohi View Post
Obviously you already know everything, and just as obviously the real estate data mentioned peacocks as being obnoxious pests as well as decorative assets. Shouldn't everyone know this anyway? Even if they haven't been exposed to peafowl 24/7? Jeez, didn't they read their encyclopedia?

Well, you know what? Some people are human, and they make mistakes. And they make choices they later regret, because they are not perfect.

Unlike you, I guess? How fortunate you must be; won't you help the rest of us out of our primitive morass?

Granted, it is incumbent upon each of us to be informed, and we are responsible for our choices and our actions. Have you made no mistakes? Have no regrets? Come, teach us your wisdom! We sorely need it.

Oh, and yes, some people do leap - it's called an emotional reaction. Some people do have emotions, you know. And probably 99.9% of us are not perfect. Strangely though, there's a significant percentage above 0.1% who believe they are! (Not you, of course, as you already said you are "human.")

Hope you can still take some good natured ribbing, as I have from you in the past.
By all means. Carry on to your heart's content.
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  #57  
Old December 2nd, 2009, 12:37 AM
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Default Re: Sandra Maloney v. The Peacock

There are times when I feel like bludgeoning my neighbor's incessantly barking dogs. Or the grackles that won't shut up in the spring. But I exercise self control and don't do it. Perhaps the peacocks felt the same way about Sandra. Too bad the bird didn't get a fair fight.
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  #58  
Old December 2nd, 2009, 01:13 AM
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Cool Re: Sandra Maloney v. The Peacock

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Originally Posted by Frankie's Market View Post
Speaking for myself, my sympathy for the wild peacocks in Makaha lie not in their physical appearance, but by the fact that those birds have inhabited that area for over a century. In contrast, Sandra Maloney moved into her apartment five years ago.
So that amounts to... what? Squatter's rights? Adverse possession?

I'm one of those folk who have a soft spot in my heart for indigenous species over introduced. Indigenous species have evolved with the environment; introduced species generally mess it up.
Certainly the invasive peacocks have less justification than Homo Sapiens Sapiens - HSS having been here MUCH longer than peafowl.
And I'm not a racist, so the varieties within a species mean nothing to me.
Hawaiians, Caucasians, etc., all ONE species, whereas peafowl don't fit, they are adapted to a different climate/region.

Quote:
Should the bludgeoning of the peacock be justified because a relative "newcomer" is irritated by the noise? No doubt in some people's mind, whenever there's a conflict between the interests of wildlife and human, the latter should always win out.
I can't justify her actions unless it was done for food or the maintenance of sanity. If she didn't kill the cock, would her neighbors be next? Should we let wild pigs dig up Kapiolani Park? I suppose according to you we should not kill the rats that invade our gardens or homes? Or the ants, or fleas, ad infinitum?
Somewhere a line must be drawn. Are you the arbiter? The final judge?

Quote:
If an urban development project encroaches on the breeding grounds of an animal species, then too bad for the wildlife. If a fishery uses nets that maximizes the catching of tuna at the expense of snagging and killing sea turtles and dolphins, then too bad for the latter.
Wake up, Frankie. Look around you. It's happening all the time! Are you doing anything to stop it? I hope so, because you know what they say: "if your not a part of the solution... you're part of the problem."

I'm certain you are, though, because of your KNOWLEDGE of the problem, and your position, which would be threatened by a DUI, I trust you are putting your energies where mine are, into protection of our environment, and of our NATIVE species. Or are you into the protection of mongooses over Nene?

Quote:
Might makes right in some people's mind. I don't subscribe to that way of thinking. But if other people do, then they are certainly entitled to it.
Thinking becomes action. I can't stop them from thinking, but when it becomes action I'll say: "Not on my watch."

Quote:
By all means. Carry on to your heart's content.
How politically correct!

As expected,
K
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  #59  
Old December 2nd, 2009, 08:38 AM
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Default Re: Sandra Maloney v. The Peacock

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So that amounts to... what? Squatter's rights? Adverse possession?
I wasn't advocating any legal rights for the wild peacocks. I was just stating my personal opinion. Hopefully, you're okay with my doing so on this board, just as you certainly don't hold back on expressing your thoughts.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaonohi View Post
I'm one of those folk who have a soft spot in my heart for indigenous species over introduced. Indigenous species have evolved with the environment; introduced species generally mess it up.
Certainly the invasive peacocks have less justification than Homo Sapiens Sapiens - HSS having been here MUCH longer than peafowl.
And I'm not a racist, so the varieties within a species mean nothing to me.
Hawaiians, Caucasians, etc., all ONE species, whereas peafowl don't fit, they are adapted to a different climate/region.
The fact that peacocks are not an indigenous creature to Hawaii makes no difference in my opinion that peacocks do not deserve to be clubbed to death. For that matter, dogs also aren't indigenous. If certain peacocks and dogs need to be euthanized, hopefully they will be put to sleep in the most humane way possible.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaonohi View Post
Are you the arbiter? The final judge?
I could ask the same questions of you as well.

Once again, I am simply stating my opinion on this board, just as you are doing the same.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaonohi View Post
Wake up, Frankie. Look around you. It's happening all the time! Are you doing anything to stop it? I hope so, because you know what they say: "if your not a part of the solution... you're part of the problem."
I don't live in Makaha. But in my neighborhood, I have made 2 complaints to police when I have witnessed what I believed were cruel and abusive treatment of dogs. I do what I can, and that's all that matters to me. What anybody else thinks, I don't really care.

The fact that animal cruelty happens everyday and many perpetrators get away with it won't change my viewpoint on the matter. So many kids get away with shoplifting. That won't get me to tell my children that petty theft is okay.

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Originally Posted by Kaonohi View Post
I'm certain you are, though, because of your KNOWLEDGE of the problem, and your position, which would be threatened by a DUI, I trust you are putting your energies where mine are, into protection of our environment, and of our NATIVE species. Or are you into the protection of mongooses over Nene?
Read what I said earlier about finding humane ways to euthanize animals. Nowhere did I ever advocate preserving the life of every single animal. I realize that ecology is a complex matter and that certain animals have to be subjected to population control for the sake of other species. But even in such cases, I would hope that humane methods of euthanizing and/or spaying/neutering can be found. Once again, this is just my opinion. If anybody else feels otherwise, then they're entitled to state their thoughts.

Last edited by Frankie's Market; December 2nd, 2009 at 08:45 AM.
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  #60  
Old December 2nd, 2009, 10:22 AM
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Default Re: Sandra Maloney v. The Peacock

This thread was more fun and interesting when we were trying to figure out what to call a sterilized peacock.........depeckered?
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  #61  
Old December 2nd, 2009, 11:00 AM
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Default Re: Sandra Maloney v. The Peacock

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... trying to figure out what to call a sterilized peacock.........depeckered?
Do you put them into Depeche Mode to do so?
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  #62  
Old December 2nd, 2009, 02:19 PM
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Default Re: Sandra Maloney v. The Peacock

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Do you put them into Depeche Mode to do so?
No you use a nutcracker.
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  #63  
Old December 2nd, 2009, 02:26 PM
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Default Re: Sandra Maloney v. The Peacock

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No you use a nutcracker.
That's LikaNui's cue, but I'll say it for him:

"Oh, so you've met my ex-wife, Plaintiff?"

I can't help but smile when he writes that line; perhaps having been twice-divorced, it resonates with me a wee bit? Maybe? Just sayin' ...
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  #64  
Old December 2nd, 2009, 03:51 PM
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Default Re: Sandra Maloney v. The Peacock

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No you use a nutcracker.
Just the utterance of that word, "Nutcracker" makes me cringe. I'd rather be waterboarded than go thru that ordeal
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  #65  
Old December 2nd, 2009, 04:05 PM
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Default Re: Sandra Maloney v. The Peacock

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Just the utterance of that word, "Nutcracker" makes me cringe.
Craig, when you go to the bar and order a beer and some turkey nuts, where do you think they get them? Hellooooooo. You got a bunch of turkeys walking around with high, squeaky gobblers. So go into business providing peacock nuts to Oahu nightclubs. You make money AND take care of peacock problem in Makaha Valley all same time. Matapule know business when he see one. You no get be matapule foa bea dummy. Kay den nuf said.
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  #66  
Old December 2nd, 2009, 05:30 PM
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Wink Re: Sandra Maloney v. The Peacock

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Originally Posted by Frankie's Market View Post
I wasn't advocating any legal rights for the wild peacocks. I was just stating my personal opinion. Hopefully, you're okay with my doing so on this board, just as you certainly don't hold back on expressing your thoughts.

The fact that peacocks are not an indigenous creature to Hawaii makes no difference in my opinion that peacocks do not deserve to be clubbed to death. For that matter, dogs also aren't indigenous. If certain peacocks and dogs need to be euthanized, hopefully they will be put to sleep in the most humane way possible.

Once again, I am simply stating my opinion on this board, just as you are doing the same.

I don't live in Makaha. But in my neighborhood, I have made 2 complaints to police when I have witnessed what I believed were cruel and abusive treatment of dogs. I do what I can, and that's all that matters to me. What anybody else thinks, I don't really care.

The fact that animal cruelty happens everyday and many perpetrators get away with it won't change my viewpoint on the matter. So many kids get away with shoplifting. That won't get me to tell my children that petty theft is okay.

Read what I said earlier about finding humane ways to euthanize animals. Nowhere did I ever advocate preserving the life of every single animal. I realize that ecology is a complex matter and that certain animals have to be subjected to population control for the sake of other species. But even in such cases, I would hope that humane methods of euthanizing and/or spaying/neutering can be found. Once again, this is just my opinion. If anybody else feels otherwise, then they're entitled to state their thoughts.
And your thoughts and opinions are always welcome Frankie. If you find my comments challenging (in essence - not implying you are challenged), sometimes I just need clarification. You did an excellent job of clarifying your position, and believe it or not, it is very close to mine.

K
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  #67  
Old December 2nd, 2009, 05:37 PM
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Lightbulb Re: Sandra Maloney v. The Peacock

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Originally Posted by matapule View Post
This thread was more fun and interesting when we were trying to figure out what to call a sterilized peacock.........depeckered?
Uh, peacock -> decock?
___peafowl -> defowl?
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  #68  
Old December 2nd, 2009, 09:07 PM
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Default Re: Sandra Maloney v. The Peacock

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And your thoughts and opinions are always welcome Frankie. If you find my comments challenging (in essence - not implying you are challenged), sometimes I just need clarification. You did an excellent job of clarifying your position, and believe it or not, it is very close to mine.
Glad to hear. I respect your views.

Let me make it clear, if I didn't so earlier. I don't expect Sandra Maloney to receive any prison time. If her attorney cites his client's previous clean record and extenuating circumstances, I'm fine with that. I'm just concerned if the attorney tries to establish a legal precedent that opens the way for others to engage in the same sort of behavior without suffering some sort of repercussion or consequence.

Me and my family are dog lovers. But that enthusiasm doesn't blind me to the fact that certain dogs (like certain birds) need to be put down because they are disease carriers and pose a health threat. But even when it is necessary to put such animals to death, it should be done in the most humane way possible. I don't care how fatally diseased a dog might be. Once he is captured and contained, there's no justification for torturing or beating that poor dog to death.
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  #69  
Old December 3rd, 2009, 12:42 AM
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Question Re: Sandra Maloney v. The Peacock

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Originally Posted by Frankie's Market View Post
Glad to hear. I respect your views.

Let me make it clear, if I didn't so earlier. I don't expect Sandra Maloney to receive any prison time. If her attorney cites his client's previous clean record and extenuating circumstances, I'm fine with that. I'm just concerned if the attorney tries to establish a legal precedent that opens the way for others to engage in the same sort of behavior without suffering some sort of repercussion or consequence.

Me and my family are dog lovers. But that enthusiasm doesn't blind me to the fact that certain dogs (like certain birds) need to be put down because they are disease carriers and pose a health threat. But even when it is necessary to put such animals to death, it should be done in the most humane way possible. I don't care how fatally diseased a dog might be. Once he is captured and contained, there's no justification for torturing or beating that poor dog to death.
It seems that what you are saying, FM, is that we need a way to find a humane solution to resolve the almost universal (I have researched other peafowl-inhabited areas as well) problem created by excessive peafowl in close proximity to human habitation.

In other areas of the USA, hunting seasons solve the problem. In fact, that is how we limit the over-population of pigs on O`ahu, and the other islands.

We hunt pheasant, grouse, pigs, lord knows what else (including fish), for sport, for food, for population control. I don't agree with all of it, but it's not my decision. I am NOT the ultimate arbitrator, I just get to include my opinion, and if I do ( in any official capacity) then it WILL be informed! Otherwise I am not being 'responsible.'

I love animals, and plants, too. I eat plants, but I am growing away from eating animals. I kill ants, earwigs and other invasive bugs, but I don't eat them (what a waste!); I don't want to kill animals, not even to eat, at this time in my life - but things change.

I don't think peafowl, swans, dolphins, turtles, whales or even humans have any particular "right to survive over all others." Natural selection has done a pretty good job over the millennia, and it took into consideration advanced HSS with our "weapons of mass destruction," (the stone-tipped spear!)

Frankie and I are seemingly both against unnecessary suffering (who would have known???)! And, that's a GOOD thing!

K

(perhaps there's even hope for the human race!?)*








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  #70  
Old December 3rd, 2009, 04:56 AM
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Default Re: Sandra Maloney v. The Peacock

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Originally Posted by matapule View Post
Craig, when you go to the bar and order a beer and some turkey nuts, where do you think they get them? Hellooooooo. You got a bunch of turkeys walking around with high, squeaky gobblers. So go into business providing peacock nuts to Oahu nightclubs. You make money AND take care of peacock problem in Makaha Valley all same time. Matapule know business when he see one. You no get be matapule foa bea dummy. Kay den nuf said.
I stay away from stuff that looks like Turkey Nuts. As for Peacock nuts...hmmm...I'm thinking they must be tiny nuts to go with tiny cocks...you know...pea cocks? Rim Shot please!!!
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  #71  
Old December 4th, 2009, 02:44 AM
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Default Re: Sandra Maloney v. The Peacock

Sandra got a conviction today, according to KGMB.
The peacock is still dead.
The judge said the cock was not a species considered to be vermin.

What is vermin? And why? Snakes? Mosquitos? Bulbuls? Magpies? Judges? Homo S.S.?
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  #72  
Old December 4th, 2009, 02:55 PM
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Default Re: Sandra Maloney v. The Peacock

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Originally Posted by Kaonohi View Post
Sandra got a conviction today, according to KGMB.
Good! About time someone was held accountable for their actions!

Quote:
The judge said the cock was not a species considered to be vermin.
My husband will be so pleased to hear that.
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  #73  
Old December 5th, 2009, 12:53 AM
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Default Re: Sandra Maloney v. The Peacock

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The judge said the cock was not a species considered to be vermin.
You just have to suck out the poison.
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  #74  
Old December 10th, 2009, 02:32 AM
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Talking Re: Sandra Maloney v. The Peacock

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I saw a peacock once at the Dole Plantation. I was eating pineapple ice-cream, turned around, and there was a peacock, looking like she was about to take a nibble off my cone.
Oh, you mean your ice cream.
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Old December 10th, 2009, 02:34 AM
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Talking Re: Sandra Maloney v. The Peacock

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(perhaps there's even hope for the human race!?)*


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