Go Back   HawaiiThreads.com > Ka Nohona > Hawaii Hall
FAQ Members List Social Groups Calendar Search Search Latest Posts Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old January 23rd, 2009, 03:17 AM
Amati's Avatar
Amati Amati is offline
Ali`i
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 2,039
Default Sin taxes

http://www.starbulletin.com/news/200...t_options.html

The legislature is back to work. Today there was discussion on a "sin" tax to raise more money for the state budget.

Options include "Increasing "sin" taxes on cigarettes and alcohol. Charging another penny on every cigarette or 20 cents for every pack would raise $10.8 million".


What do you think about "sin" taxes?
  • Is it OK to target a select group of consumers and tax them higher, in order to raise funds for the masses?
  • Should someone who can afford to buy non-essential things like cigarettes and liquor then be assumed to be able to afford to pay higher taxes?
  • What if, for example, I consider watching TV to be a sin (because it is wasteful of precious time), maybe TV watching should be charged a sin tax?
Your thoughts?
__________________
Now run along and play, but donít get into trouble.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old January 23rd, 2009, 04:12 AM
Seeking Penance's Avatar
Seeking Penance Seeking Penance is offline
Kumu
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Hawaii Threads
Posts: 465
Default Re: Sin taxes

ha! ha! ha! @ "sin" tax - they ran out of names?

no thoughts - they'll eventually increase it regardless



what next "infidelity" tax? or "fag" tax? or does that fall under sin too?

__________________
stay forever young
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old January 23rd, 2009, 08:35 AM
matapule's Avatar
matapule matapule is offline
Ali`i
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Wherever I am, I'm there
Posts: 3,102
Default Re: Sin taxes

I say tax anyone who eats anything from the sea that doesn't have fins or scales. The Bible (Leviticus) says it is an "abomination."
__________________
Peace, Love, and Local Grindz

People who form FIRM opinions with so little knowledge only pretend to be open-minded. They select their facts like food from a buffet. David R. Dow
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old January 23rd, 2009, 08:46 AM
MyopicJoe's Avatar
MyopicJoe MyopicJoe is offline
Ali`i
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: O'ahu
Posts: 1,309
Default Re: Sin taxes

It'd be funny if the state budget some day became so reliant on sin taxes, that they couldn't afford for people to stop sinning. The state might need to create sin incentives. Oh wait. Isn't that consumerism?

Oh, and let's not forget the cousin of sin taxes: stupidity tax (i.e. lotteries)
__________________
"By concealing your desires, you may trick people into being cruel about the wrong thing." --Steven Aylett, Fain the Sorcerer
"You gotta get me to the tall corn." --David Mamet, Spartan
"
Amateurs talk technology, professionals talk conditions." --(unknown)

Last edited by MyopicJoe; January 23rd, 2009 at 08:55 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old January 23rd, 2009, 09:39 AM
Kalalau Kalalau is offline
Ali`i
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 1,427
Default Re: Sin taxes

"Bad Habits" like drinkin and smokin do produce costs to the state so taxing those "sins" helps to discourage the behavior and pay for the costs. But I have also heard reasonable sounding arguments that smoking benefits the social security fund because the beneficiaries decease before they can collect. Talk about harsh economics!
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old January 23rd, 2009, 11:07 AM
Kory K's Avatar
Kory K Kory K is offline
Kanaka
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Honolulu
Posts: 78
Default Re: Sin taxes

"Sin" taxes are just another way to raise revenue for governments in times of economic crisis. They are also called "vice" taxes. For now I think those are only the tip of the iceberg. Within the next few years I think both the State and Federal governments will need to raise taxes on non-essential items like fuel, entertainment and probably even cellular phones. If you were watching the news last night, the state is going to initiate driving taxes to pay for the H1 freeway upgrade. The report said that it would cost the average person an extra $170 per year in taxes. Contrary to popular belief, driving is a privilege and not a right.
__________________
You can take the boy out of Hilo but you can't take the Hilo out of the boy!
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old January 23rd, 2009, 11:16 AM
Konaguy's Avatar
Konaguy Konaguy is offline
Ali`i
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Kailua-Kona
Posts: 2,640
Default Re: Sin taxes

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kory K View Post
Contrary to popular belief, driving is a privilege and not a right.
I disagree. You won't get far in life without a car. For starters here in Kona you need a vehicle to drive back and forth to work and to get to town (There is very limited public transportation here).
__________________
Check out my blog on Kona issues :
The Kona Blog
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old January 23rd, 2009, 12:19 PM
MyopicJoe's Avatar
MyopicJoe MyopicJoe is offline
Ali`i
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: O'ahu
Posts: 1,309
Default Re: Sin taxes

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kory K View Post
Contrary to popular belief, driving is a privilege and not a right.
Though I agree driving is a luxury, it can also become a necessity, based on our environment (as Konaguy alluded to).

One problem is when we develop our cities around cars, over many decades. If we give up cars, maybe we need to give up suburbs and the idea of personal home / land ownership. We'd all need to live in high rises located close to our work places. If you change companies, or maybe even job position, you might have to move to a different high rise.

Corporations might run their own on-site schools, hospitals, and entertainment centers; so their workers don't need to travel far. Instead of America spreading out flat, it bunches up into cubes. This is an old idea. I think they're called Arcologies. Not so much that things are centered around corporations, but rather all the necessary institutions are located very close together.

Our cities would need to look more like NYC and Hong Kong, instead of LA.
__________________
"By concealing your desires, you may trick people into being cruel about the wrong thing." --Steven Aylett, Fain the Sorcerer
"You gotta get me to the tall corn." --David Mamet, Spartan
"
Amateurs talk technology, professionals talk conditions." --(unknown)
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old January 23rd, 2009, 01:13 PM
tutusue's Avatar
tutusue tutusue is offline
Ali`i
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Wah-key'-key
Posts: 10,390
Default Re: Sin taxes

Sin taxes? I'm ok with them. A cigarette tax wouldn't affect me but a liquor tax would. If it becomes financially problematic then I stop enjoying a glass of wine. I've long believed that taxing unhealthful habits is not a bad thing.

During the early 1980s, I wrote my then state representative about my thoughts on this subject. I also included legalizing pot and prostitution, regulating and taxing the heck out of 'em!

And, yes, I'd like to see a lottery that would benefit our school system.

Now...'scuse me while I don by asbestos suit!
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old January 23rd, 2009, 02:59 PM
Random's Avatar
Random Random is offline
Ali`i
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Returned to Molokai
Posts: 3,419
Default Re: Sin taxes

Quote:
Originally Posted by matapule View Post
I say tax anyone who eats anything from the sea that doesn't have fins or scales. The Bible (Leviticus) says it is an "abomination."
What's wrong with opihi and ogo?
__________________
Beijing 8-08-08 to 8-24-08

Tiananmen Square 4-15-89 to 6-04-89
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old January 23rd, 2009, 04:07 PM
anapuni808's Avatar
anapuni808 anapuni808 is offline
Ali`i
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: No. California
Posts: 2,556
Default Re: Sin taxes

Quote:
Originally Posted by tutusue View Post
Sin taxes? I'm ok with them. A cigarette tax wouldn't affect me but a liquor tax would. If it becomes financially problematic then I stop enjoying a glass of wine. I've long believed that taxing unhealthful habits is not a bad thing.

During the early 1980s, I wrote my then state representative about my thoughts on this subject. I also included legalizing pot and prostitution, regulating and taxing the heck out of 'em!

And, yes, I'd like to see a lottery that would benefit our school system.

Now...'scuse me while I don by asbestos suit!
You mean like the lottery benefitted the schools in California? When the lottery started there, I was so excited and bought my tickets every week. Then, I found out from a state legislator that all the lottery profits that were supposed to go to the schools did go there BUT, an equal amount was removed from the state schools budget. So, the schools just kept getting the same amount as before the lottery. Hopefully that has changed by now but when I found out, I stopped buying tickets.

You don't need to don the fireproof suit for me - I support legalizing pot & prostitution. It's stupid to make prostitution illegal - it's been going on since the days of Socrates! As for a higher tax on alcohol - I'll just pay it. I refuse to give up my cocktails!
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old January 23rd, 2009, 04:29 PM
tutusue's Avatar
tutusue tutusue is offline
Ali`i
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Wah-key'-key
Posts: 10,390
Default Re: Sin taxes

Quote:
Originally Posted by anapuni808 View Post
You mean like the lottery benefitted the schools in California?[...]
As for a higher tax on alcohol - I'll just pay it. I refuse to give up my cocktails!
I wasn't aware of the problem in California. But you bring up a good point. A lottery would need to be tediously set up to avoid such a thing.

I doubt a tax on liquor would become a financial hardship. If I found it to be so then, in reality, there's already a bigger financial hardship...the bottle of wine itself! If the tax was exorbitant and I disagreed with the principle of it then I'd have no problem boycotting booze!
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old January 23rd, 2009, 05:10 PM
matapule's Avatar
matapule matapule is offline
Ali`i
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Wherever I am, I'm there
Posts: 3,102
Default Re: Sin taxes

Quote:
Originally Posted by tutusue View Post
I also included legalizing pot and prostitution, regulating and taxing the heck out of 'em!
Hey, have you been reading my blue papers? I'm behind you 100% SuzieQ. And you can see Japan from your veranda since you're on those upper floors. I'll vote for you. Go gettum' granny! (wink, wink)

Hey, they sell a great Pinot Grigio from Italy here at the Cabo Costco. 1 1/2 liters for about US$10. Bottle is tapered 24" tall and dark blue. It is shockingly good for the price. All this talk about more taxes on alcohol is depressing me, and since it is TGIF, I think I'll make myself a cocktail.....smoke (but not inhale) a little wacky tabacky too. But I won't have sexual relations with that woman, Ms Lewinsky.
__________________
Peace, Love, and Local Grindz

People who form FIRM opinions with so little knowledge only pretend to be open-minded. They select their facts like food from a buffet. David R. Dow

Last edited by matapule; January 23rd, 2009 at 05:18 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old January 23rd, 2009, 09:29 PM
acousticlady's Avatar
acousticlady acousticlady is offline
Kumu
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Kihei -currently away at school in NY
Posts: 734
Default Re: Sin taxes

Here in NY they want to institute an "obesity" tax. Taxing soda that contains real sugar but not soda that has artificial sweeteners.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old January 23rd, 2009, 11:58 PM
TATTRAT's Avatar
TATTRAT TATTRAT is offline
Ali`i
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: missing the 808 in the 202
Posts: 1,488
Send a message via AIM to TATTRAT Send a message via Yahoo to TATTRAT
Default Re: Sin taxes

Quote:
Originally Posted by acousticlady View Post
Here in NY they want to institute an "obesity" tax. Taxing soda that contains real sugar but not soda that has artificial sweeteners.
AUS has had a similar tax, I like the idea. In AUS it is the junk food tax, I think is is a good incentive to purchase healthier products. Sure, people willl grip that "Healthier" food is more pricey, but so are the medical costs involved with the hospital stay for years of east eating.
__________________
flickr

An email from God:
To: People of Earth
From: God
Date: 9/04/2007
Subject: stop

knock it off, all of you

seriously, what the hell


--
God
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old January 24th, 2009, 12:49 AM
surlygirly's Avatar
surlygirly surlygirly is offline
Ali`i
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Former resident of Ewa Beach
Posts: 937
Default Re: Sin taxes

Sin tax. Hmm. So does this mean they'll tax you extra on condoms if you're not married, but they won't if you are? Or tax you for medication for STDs and stuff? Or put a big tax on "girlie mags"? Just what kinds of sins are we talking about here??

This could get interesting...
__________________

Can't think of anything creative this time

Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old January 24th, 2009, 01:46 AM
zff zff is offline
Kumu
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 542
Default Re: Sin taxes

Let's just hope they don't tax Internet access.
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old January 24th, 2009, 01:49 AM
Random's Avatar
Random Random is offline
Ali`i
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Returned to Molokai
Posts: 3,419
Default Re: Sin taxes

Quote:
Originally Posted by acousticlady View Post
Here in NY they want to institute an "obesity" tax. Taxing soda that contains real sugar but not soda that has artificial sweeteners.
If junk food is more expensive, then I'll just buy affordable healthy food.

I think we should rename "luxury tax" as "indulgence tax" and classify junk food as "indulgence."
__________________
Beijing 8-08-08 to 8-24-08

Tiananmen Square 4-15-89 to 6-04-89
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old January 24th, 2009, 06:12 AM
Menehune Man's Avatar
Menehune Man Menehune Man is offline
Ali`i
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: middle of da ocean
Posts: 5,500
Red face Re: Sin taxes

The thing with sin is...
Either we give in or we don't.
It don't matter the cost.
We'll pay it... you know we will.
HaHa! Oh well, such is life, eh?
__________________
Life is either an adventure... or you're not doing it right!!!
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old January 24th, 2009, 02:41 PM
GeckoGeek's Avatar
GeckoGeek GeckoGeek is offline
Ali`i
 
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 3,043
Default Re: Sin taxes

Quote:
Originally Posted by Amati View Post
Is it OK to target a select group of consumers and tax them higher, in order to raise funds for the masses?
It's already being done. I think that argument was settled along time ago. If you need an example, we tax the rich at a higher rate.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Amati View Post
What if, for example, I consider watching TV to be a sin (because it is wasteful of precious time), maybe TV watching should be charged a sin tax?
How would you implement it? Note that our lawmakers are talking about raising an existing tax, not creating a new one which would be much more complicated.
Reply With Quote
  #21  
Old January 26th, 2009, 12:44 AM
Amati's Avatar
Amati Amati is offline
Ali`i
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 2,039
Default Re: Sin taxes

Quote:
Originally Posted by GeckoGeek View Post
How would you implement it? Note that our lawmakers are talking about raising an existing tax, not creating a new one which would be much more complicated.
My point was asking what would be considered a "sin", besides the already stated alcohol and cigarettes. I gave Tv as an example consideration (the so-called "sin" of wasting time). I was not saying I supported the taxing of Tv watching.
Meanwhile, I don't for a minute think that if the legislature decides to tax something with a "sin tax", that they'd NOT do it because it would be complicated. In other words, if they see a source of money, being complicated would not stop them.
__________________
Now run along and play, but donít get into trouble.
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old January 26th, 2009, 02:03 AM
GeckoGeek's Avatar
GeckoGeek GeckoGeek is offline
Ali`i
 
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 3,043
Default Re: Sin taxes

Quote:
Originally Posted by Amati View Post
Meanwhile, I don't for a minute think that if the legislature decides to tax something with a "sin tax", that they'd NOT do it because it would be complicated. In other words, if they see a source of money, being complicated would not stop them.
Oh, I disagree. They are pragmatic when it comes to things like that. If they wanted to tax TV watching, they'd tack a tax on the cable bill. (OTA would remain free.)

What else can they "sin" tax? Adult magazines and adult stores.

I don't think they'd try taxing fast food unless they slipped it in as part of making food (grocery store) tax free.
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old January 26th, 2009, 03:46 AM
Amati's Avatar
Amati Amati is offline
Ali`i
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 2,039
Default Re: Sin taxes

Quote:
Originally Posted by GeckoGeek View Post
Oh, I disagree. They are pragmatic when it comes to things like that. If they wanted to tax TV watching, they'd tack a tax on the cable bill. (OTA would remain free.)
That is what I am saying. Or trying to. I think that if the legislature decides there is something they want to tax, they will find a way to do so. I do not think that just because it is "complicated", they will forget about the tax. They will find a way, complicated or not.
They want your money, folks.
__________________
Now run along and play, but donít get into trouble.
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old January 26th, 2009, 07:42 AM
matapule's Avatar
matapule matapule is offline
Ali`i
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Wherever I am, I'm there
Posts: 3,102
Default Re: Sin taxes

Quote:
Originally Posted by Amati View Post
They want your money, folks.
What's wrong with paying money in the form of taxes for goods and services for the common good? I like all the things that taxes provide to me. The US has an overall tax rate that is lower than average in the world vis a vis the amount of services that are provided.

To give a private sector example, I live in a homeowners association that provides certain services like landscape maintenance and exterior building maintenance in exchange for a monthly fee. I don't have to live here, but I like the convenience and the fact that I don't have to worry about those things, so that monthly fee (in the form of dues) is worth it to me.

I do have a problem with the Hawai'i State tax structure. Taxing food and rent for example are regressive in that these tax low income people at a higher rate than the wealthy. Taxes should be based on ability to pay. In my opinion, taxes based on income and luxury items like boats, airplanes, booze, cigarettes, prostitution, illegal drugs, etc. are the fairest. I think that Hawai'i real estate property taxes are ridiculously low and don't reflect ability to pay. But there I go again, sounding like a librul.

I urge anyone who is unhappy with the way that government is operated to run for public office. Seriously, if Sarah Palin can be elected a Governor, and thereby, proposed for the second highest office in the land, ANYBODY can do it! She has no special knowledge or intellect (maybe less than anyone in HT ohana). She is just passionate about her beliefs. She is just your typical "Gloria the Governor." That's all it takes is committment and passion.
__________________
Peace, Love, and Local Grindz

People who form FIRM opinions with so little knowledge only pretend to be open-minded. They select their facts like food from a buffet. David R. Dow
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old January 27th, 2009, 12:47 AM
Menehune Man's Avatar
Menehune Man Menehune Man is offline
Ali`i
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: middle of da ocean
Posts: 5,500
Post Re: Sin taxes

"In my opinion, taxes based on income and luxury items like boats, airplanes, booze, cigarettes, prostitution, illegal drugs, etc. are the fairest." From Matapule's previous post.

Shhh... maybe they'll pick something other than boats. HaHa!

I think Hawaii would be better run, if funds were used where they're supposed to be.

Taxes and fees of all sorts are taken and the monies collected then raided for 'other' projects.
The areas and concerns of the people paying those fees see it just deteriorate into shambles. Sad and unfair.
__________________
Life is either an adventure... or you're not doing it right!!!
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Tags
taxes

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 12:07 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions Inc.

  Partner Sites: Hawaii Blog Hawaii News Hawaii Grinds Hawaii Social Media  
    Blogging the Aloha State. The Hawaii Star. Hawaii Food Blog. The story of Aloha 2.0.