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  #101  
Old January 13th, 2009, 12:35 AM
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Default

By the way, someone posted this comment on Joe's blog about the incident:

"I must say that this is bachi the owner was asking for. The loud music isnít so bad but the vulgar blasting lyrics last week with the Fó- word blasting for an hour is unacceptable behavior for a public display where families and children are present. I look forward to the peace and quiet for a few weeks."



Quote:
Originally Posted by tutusue View Post
Oh, I saw the dialogue that transpired yesterday. I didn't feel the need for popcorn 'til today.
Understandable. Yesterday was just foreplay. Today, the proverbial fat lady is singing.
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  #102  
Old January 13th, 2009, 12:43 AM
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Default Re: Bad day on the sandbar

Quote:
Originally Posted by matapule View Post
BY GOLLY IT'S BOB JONES!!!!
It would be funny if it was

But he was nice to Aunty, so I forgive him. Maybe he'll forgive us some day.


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Originally Posted by LikaNui View Post
By the way, someone posted this comment on Joe's blog
BTW, the blog entry no longer links to our thread. We're just winning friends and influencing people left and right these days
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  #103  
Old January 13th, 2009, 03:43 AM
Composite 2992 Composite 2992 is offline
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Default Re: Just a day on the sandbar

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Originally Posted by LikaNui View Post
Indeed, although the batteries were under water and had probably shorted out by then. (Might've been battery acid in the water that burned that one guy's eyes.) But what I find amusing, in a pathetic sort of way, is that a boat that big sank so very fast... and they tried to stop the massive inflow of the ocean with a little bucket?!
Sneezing monkeys would know better.
I'm a small boat owner (I'm normal height. The boat is small), and I keep a manual bilge pump readily at hand, just in case. And the boat is one of those sandwich foam designs that supposedly won't sink.

Everyone wears a PFD (inflatable belt design) all the time. It's a little 18-footer but I take the "skipper" responsibility seriously because the safety of everyone on board is my responsibility and we do end up a few miles offshore where it's definitely not "ankle deep".

The boat is certified for 8 but I seldom take more than three. It's more comfortable that way.
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  #104  
Old January 13th, 2009, 09:27 AM
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Exclamation

I received an unconfirmed report (from a high level media executive) that one of the girls on the boat suffered a broken leg during the sandbar incident.
If that turns out to be true, my anger level (and that of many others) will increase exponentially.

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Originally Posted by Composite 2992 View Post
I'm a small boat owner (I'm normal height. The boat is small),
Oh, well written, Composite! [/applause]

Quote:
and I keep a manual bilge pump readily at hand, just in case.
Well done again. Though of course a manual bilge pump wouldn't have been able to keep up with the inflow of water and would have been about as noneffective as their use of a bucket.

Quote:
And the boat is one of those sandwich foam designs that supposedly won't sink.
Ah. It's a Boston Whaler? I remember their ads where they had cut a hull entirely in half, with a person sitting in each end, and the halves didn't sink. But if memory serves correctly the company was ordered to stop using the term "unsinkable' in its ads.

Quote:
Everyone wears a PFD (inflatable belt design) all the time. It's a little 18-footer but I take the "skipper" responsibility seriously because the safety of everyone on board is my responsibility and we do end up a few miles offshore where it's definitely not "ankle deep". The boat is certified for 8 but I seldom take more than three.
I tip my hat to you with much respect, Composite.
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  #105  
Old January 13th, 2009, 09:45 AM
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Red face Re: Bad day on the sandbar

Quote:
Originally Posted by LikaNui View Post
I received an unconfirmed report (from a high level media executive) that one of the girls on the boat suffered a broken leg during the sandbar incident.
Are you sure this is separate from what JPhilipson noted:
Quote:
Originally Posted by jPhilipson
He even helped carry a girl who's leg was in a cast get off the boat and make sure that she was loaded into a nearby vessel.
As usual, appearances can be one thing, presumptions and expectations based on personal gripes another, and the truth something very often completely different.

I'm all for finding facts, sharing observations, and discovering important lessons to prevent future calamities... but to those who revel in gossip or standing by with tar and feathers at the ready, I'd ask for a little restraint. That we're half discussing the incident, and half joking about getting popcorn to watch expected fireworks is disappointing. This matter is in the hands of the people most qualified to address it, and take action if warranted. I'm mostly thankful that no one was seriously killed or hurt (alleged broken leg notwithstanding).

I'm glad my friend Joe survived, I'm bummed he lost his expensive gear, and I'm sure he's mortified that his natural, first-hand report of this incident has sparked so much drama.
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  #106  
Old January 13th, 2009, 11:46 AM
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Default Re: Bad day on the sandbar

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Originally Posted by pzarquon View Post
Are you sure this is separate from what JPhilipson noted:
He even helped carry a girl who's leg was in a cast get off the boat and make sure that she was loaded into a nearby vessel.
To which I repeat what I wrote earlier this morning, that the message I received earlier today said that "a female friend of his broke her leg during the incident."

Quote:
As usual, appearances can be one thing, presumptions and expectations based on personal gripes another, and the truth something very often completely different.
Yes, as I posted here yesterday there are three sides to every story -- one person's version, another person's version, and the truth which lies somewhere in the middle.

Quote:
This matter is in the hands of the people most qualified to address it, and take action if warranted.
Yes, I am one of those people. Thanks.

Quote:
I'm sure he's mortified that his natural, first-hand report of this incident has sparked so much drama.
With aall due respect, Ryan, the so-called "drama" here started before Joe's blog report, and I can guarantee it would've happened even if Joe had written nothing. The issues aren't about Joe, they're about the pattern of behavior in general on that particular boat.
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  #107  
Old January 13th, 2009, 04:28 PM
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Default Re: Bad day on the sandbar

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Originally Posted by pzarquon View Post
I'm all for finding facts, sharing observations, and discovering important lessons to prevent future calamities... but to those who revel in gossip or standing by with tar and feathers at the ready, I'd ask for a little restraint. That we're half discussing the incident, and half joking about getting popcorn to watch expected fireworks is disappointing.
OK, if we set up new "ground rules" that there will be no tar & feathers at the ready for ALL news stories, then I'm in on the new rule. Otherwise, I'd surmise that the boating incident will be given the full discussion (theories and all) that many topics bring on HT.
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  #108  
Old January 13th, 2009, 04:41 PM
Composite 2992 Composite 2992 is offline
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Default Re: Bad day on the sandbar

Isn't discussion boards like this one supposed to be a place for this kind of conversation and fair comment? Unlike a news site, this board isn't subject to the same standards of journalism as, let's say, Starbulletin.com... although their own "comments" section often features commentary that's far worse than what can be found here.

I would draw the line at anything libelous. However, calling someone a jerk when they when they carelessly put people or property at risk, or when they behave badly in general, is certainly within the realm of "fair comment".
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  #109  
Old January 13th, 2009, 04:48 PM
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Default Re: Bad day on the sandbar

Ok...I'm now preparing a 2nd bowl of popcorn!
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  #110  
Old January 13th, 2009, 05:24 PM
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Wink Re: Bad day on the sandbar

I'm not saying any of this isn't "fair comment." Just as anyone's free to say that someone's a jerk, I'm taking a moment to say that the more thoughtful and intellectually curious parts of this thread are much more worthwhile to me than the rants and "let's watch the trainwreck" popcorn stuff. In my opinion. Your mileage may vary. Void where prohibited.

I generally expect commentary here to be a cut above the sorts of ridiculousness that permeates the comment sections on the local paper websites or other message boards. I suppose, then, that all this could have surely gone even further off the deep end. So for that, at least, I'm thankful.
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  #111  
Old January 13th, 2009, 06:08 PM
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Default Re: Bad day on the sandbar

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Originally Posted by tutusue View Post
It's been a long time since I've done this but...
my feet are up on my desk and there's a bowl of popcorn on my lap! Let the games begin!
Quote:
Originally Posted by pzarquon View Post
Just as anyone's free to say that someone's a jerk, I'm taking a moment to say that the more thoughtful and intellectually curious parts of this thread are much more worthwhile to me than the rants and "let's watch the trainwreck" popcorn stuff. In my opinion. Your mileage may vary. Void where prohibited.
I'm with TutuSue on this one, if I understood her posting correctly. Seemed to me her commentary was on the "train wreck" between HT posters who have differing opinions. Anyone who wants to avoid being in the collision is welcome to jump off. And those of us who want to participate, we can. Or, others of us might want to pull up a chair and get some popcorn and watch.

Wonder if this is what Mr. Bob Jones was referring to when he had less than a complimentary comment about HT ... our infighting?? Surely not!
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  #112  
Old January 13th, 2009, 06:21 PM
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Default Re: Bad day on the sandbar

The thread didn't really devolve until HO's post.

If that poorly snarked/*waggle the finger at you bad children* posting hadn't been made the thread probably would have slowed down to a trickle until more accurate info had come in.

Instead of info some random unknown pops in as a defender of Aquadelica clucks their ~tisk-tisks~ and calls the members here are a nazzy widdle lynch mob.

It was an amusing attempt at a snark, which obviously tickled our warped sensitivities, and just about guaranteed the devolution. It would have regained sobriety once the more substantial info started coming in.


And pzarquon...would you please point out the one with the tar pot? I need to have a short discussion with them about some missing tail feathers...ahem
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  #113  
Old January 13th, 2009, 06:33 PM
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Default Re: Bad day on the sandbar

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Originally Posted by pzarquon View Post
I'm taking a moment to say that the more thoughtful and intellectually curious parts of this thread are much more worthwhile to me than the rants and "let's watch the trainwreck" popcorn stuff.
Hopefully I'm in the "thoughtful and intellectually curious" category, but I also don't mind the occasional lighthearted/popcorn moment. (For example, my own post last night with the life-altering video. )
However, this thread is about some pretty serious matters, and I know that there are some unusual 'lurkers' monitoring this thread for information, as the thread has kinda become The Source for info on the Aquadelica situatiuon. (Lurkers include several media folks, including a couple of major mainland boating magazines.) So I for one would like to see any thread drift kept to a bare minimum.
And I hope folks are reading my posts carefully and notice when I state things as facts versus when I qualify things as "reportedly" or "allegedly" items.

Quote:
I generally expect commentary here to be a cut above the sorts of ridiculousness that permeates the comment sections on the local paper websites or other message boards. I suppose, then, that all this could have surely gone even further off the deep end. So for that, at least, I'm thankful.
Just as we are thankful to you for creating this forum. You have every right to set the rules. Anyone who disagrees with your rules or with any actions you've taken is certainly welcome to create their own forum.
Nuff said.
My next post, to follow shortly, will have a bunch of new information that I learned today, and some photographs.
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  #114  
Old January 13th, 2009, 06:42 PM
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Default Re: Bad day on the sandbar

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Originally Posted by Amati View Post
I'm with TutuSue on this one, if I understood her posting correctly. Seemed to me her commentary was on the "train wreck" between HT posters who have differing opinions.[...]
High 5, Amati!
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  #115  
Old January 13th, 2009, 07:25 PM
Leo Lakio Leo Lakio is offline
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Default Re: Bad day on the sandbar

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OK, if we set up new "ground rules" that there will be no tar & feathers at the ready for ALL news stories, then I'm in on the new rule.
Post of the ... how long has HT been around anyway?

This is, by far, one of the best statements I have ever read since joining this board. I'm sorry, Ryan - you know I love you, respect what you have done in birthing, guiding, feeding and raising HT, and am one of the first to defend your operation here (you'll find many, many posts from me, stating that this is your ball-field and that we need to follow your guidelines) - but Amati hits it straight with that post.

Considering how much is allowed to slide by in other threads - the blathering inaccuracies, boldfaced lies and blistering insults that are permitted in so many of these discussions - to try to rein folks in a little bit this one time ... well, it does seem a bit of a lopsided request. But I've been through enough here to know that your posting it as pzarquon does mean it is a request, and not a hard enforcement, which would come down from you as admin. I think most posters will understand the difference in level.
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  #116  
Old January 13th, 2009, 07:59 PM
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Default Re: Bad day on the sandbar

First of all, I find it fascinating that certain people allegedly involved with Aquadelica have posted here just once and never returned to continue discussions or to answer questions, which they invited. I humbly submit that they realized I know a whole lot more about the situation than they thought. But lest they have any doubt, I've got one message just for them that I know they'll understand and that will guarantee my bona fides. That message is: "Jimmy is furious."
For the rest of you, I spent some time at Heeia Kea Harbor this morning, and boy did I get an earful.
If you've never been to Heeia Kea Harbor, I strongly recommend going. (Check out their site at this link.) There's the boat docks, launch ramps, a fuel dock, the harbormaster's office (he's semi-technically in charge of most of Kaneohe Bay), and the little store and snackshop called The Deli, which is a great place to grab a bite to eat and talk to all the local old-timer boaters and fishermen hanging out at the picnic tables right there.
I talked to all of them today, as well as the harbor staff and Deli staff.
Not one single person had one single good or positive thing to say about Aquadelica. Not one single person was neutral, either. Without fail, every single person had only negative comments and stories about Aquadelica. Don't believe me? Go ask 'em yourselves.
Before I get to the recent sandbar incident, you'd hear these general comments from those folks at Heeia Kea:
You'll hear about how many times Aquadelica crashed into the fuel dock. You'll hear about how the boat almost always ignores the speed rules inside the harbor and blasts out, sending a wake that rocks all the other boats, including those in the middle of refueling. You'll hear about how they crashed into boats in neighboring slips. You'll hear from several of those folks the stories of how they each towed Aquadelic off of various reefs and coral heads, like I had to do twice. You'll hear about their parties at the dock that are so noisy the folks living in homes nearby had to call the police. You'll hear how almost everyone who goes to the sandbar hates the boat for what they do, as noted in my first post in this thread. You'll hear stories similar to my earlier one about how the boat's wake caused all the other boats to rock and bounce wildly. You'll hear about the incident a few months ago where the boat ran aground on a reef right inside the harbor, tried to motor off it but went the wrong way and ended up higher on the reef, then finally got it off and back into its slip, where it promptly began sinking due to the damage to its shafts that allowed water to get in. (Sound familiar?) And most of those stories are backed up by harbor logs and police reports, etc. (Gee, I just realized that this paragraph sounds like a prosecutor's opening statement to a jury, telling them what they should expect to hear during a trial!)
Yet a person claiming to be a co-owner of the boat has posted here about how they're always courteous and respectful and that he's unaware of any of these problems.
And now on to the recent sandbar incident.
Contrary to what that co-owner wrote here yesterday, all the folks I talked to today who were at the harbor on Sunday confirm that the boat was "overloaded with tons of people, as usual." Nothing they and the harbor staff could do about it, as only the Coast Guard can legally order a boat to stop a voyage.
And remember that the people I talked to are all highly experienced boaters, and they said today that when the boat left on Sunday they noticed how the weight of all those people had made part of the stern (rear) of the boat to be submerged under water as the boat went out. That includes a few of the through-hull fittings, which are installed above the waterline and are there to pump fluids out of the boat. But when those through-hulls get submerged, as they were Sunday... yep, water goes into the boat. And that makes a boat, you know, SINK. (End of highly simplified explanation. Upcoming photos will show more.)
On the rumor about the girl breaking her leg -- nobody at the harbor (staff or citizens) saw an ambulance there during the situation and nobody had heard about anyone breaking a leg. I'll check back with the person who reported that to me and see if the girl in question indeed already had a cast on her leg. I may detest Aquadelica, but I insist on being fair to them.
Another item from today. Staff and citizens were talking about what happened as the Aquadelica folks were brought back in by other boats. Stories abound about how the "captain" was very drunk and as soon as he got ashore "he split; dug outta there like one cockaroach when you open da door an turn on da lights."
Apparently everyone involved raced out of there. Typically in my and other professionals experience, when these kinds of incidents happen the 'victims' get back to shore and then hang around talking to each other and to bystanders about the incident. Not this time. Folks I talked to today said everyone took off immediately. "Skulked away" was a term I heard twice. There was also a police official there today, and he said that they still haven't been able to contact the owners, either that day or since. He was not a happy camper. (But that co-owner wrote here yesterday that the officials were "happy" with him. Hmmmm.)
I guess that's all I can think of from today. If I remember something else later, I'll let ya know. And remember, my anger at Aquadelica isn't personal, it's just anger based on their history of behavior that endangers innocent people and, especially, children, not to mention their own passengers safety.
Photos coming up in the next couple of posts...
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  #117  
Old January 13th, 2009, 08:33 PM
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Default Re: Bad day on the sandbar

Here's a photo of Aquadelica taken just a few hours ago:



A few things are apparent in that photo, but I'll provide closeups. Anyway, note that the hatches are open, trying to dry out the interior. I'm telling ya, most of that boat was underwater for almost 36 hours, so basically it's toast. Salt water in everything. Both engines and the generator, submerged. Electronics and wiring and electrical panels and the entire electrical system, submerged in salt water for 36 hours. Interior cushions, appliances, lights, all submerged and ruined. Somebody better have really really deep pocket$.
Oh, and the co-owner wrote yesterday that the boat had just been hauled out for maintenance, which usually includes new bottom paint. Apparently not. The bottom paint I saw did not look new. The boat was hauled out of the water for some other reason, perhaps repairs to shafts and/or rudders damaged from hitting the reefs. Just an educated guess there.
Anyway.
One of the things you see in the photo above is at the back of the boat. It's that orange thing in the water. Here's a closeup:



That, dear friends, is called a containment boom. And as the name implies, it's to contain any gas and oil spillage. But look at that photo again. See anything wrong? To be effective at all, a containment boom has to completely encircle the boat. This one doesn't even circle half of the boat, and any gas and oil can leak right on out into the harbor. Look closely at this photo and the first one too, and you can see the greenish yellowish sheen on the surface of the water. That sheen isn't supposed to be there, if you catch my drift (no pun intended). That sheen is gas and oil, outside the containment boom that is containing nothing.
Oh, and you can also see that the bottom paint is defintely not new. It's the paint right above water level and just below that big exhaust port.

Also in the first photo you might see a couple of little black things, about in the middle of the boat and just above the water level. Here's a closeup:



That, dear friends, is a black plastic trashbag jammed as temporary plugs into two of the three through-hulls, which were discussed in my post before this one as being the apparent cause of the sinking. Due to overloading the boat, all of those through-hulls were noted as being underwater even as Aquadelica left the harbor on Sunday. Oy vay! And yes, you can see again that the bottom paint is not new.

Just a couple more photos to follow, since we can only put three photos in each post.
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  #118  
Old January 13th, 2009, 08:50 PM
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Default Re: Bad day on the sandbar

Okay, two more photos. First is this one:



That yellow strap was almost certainly there as part of the process of raising the boat after it sank. It would've held the inflated floats that lifted the boat to the surface. I'm not sure why it's still there and why there wasn't one more toward the bow (front). Most likely the bow was already sitting on the sandbar itself while the rest of the boat was underwater, so they only needed to float the stern. Yeah. That seems pretty obvious from the original photo of the sinking.
And by the way, even now the boat is still listing slightly to one side. Not a good sign. It's possible that the yellow strap runs under the boat and is tied to the dock on the other side to prevent the boat from, you know, falling over.

Okay, here's the last photo. It's a closeup of part of the boat's name, and just kinda symobilzes the mindset of the owners:



They admit they are new to boating. They just bought it as a chick magnet. This is the same type of newbie who, if they buy a fishing boat, name it Master Baiter, or if they buy a sailboat name it Between The Sheets (sheets are the ropes that control the headsails on a sailboat).
Sheesh. If you ever see a boat with a name like that, RUN AWAY!
Okay. Pau for now. Questions or comments?
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  #119  
Old January 13th, 2009, 09:50 PM
Leo Lakio Leo Lakio is offline
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Default Re: Bad day on the sandbar

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Originally Posted by LikaNui View Post
Questions or comments?
Just to comment - I'm glad no one was more seriously injured, and I hope that some good comes out of this incident. Thanks for the details for this landlubber.
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  #120  
Old January 13th, 2009, 10:09 PM
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Post Re: Bad day on the sandbar

Two comments.

They're not containing any ongoing oil/contaminate spill, and if there is any, need to fix that!

If they had enough people aboard to actually put those thru-hulls under water,
they way over did it!
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  #121  
Old January 13th, 2009, 10:12 PM
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Default Re: Bad day on the sandbar

<< dips hand into popcorn bowl, and fishes out half of what's left. >>

I can't decide if I'm laughing harder at the boat, its owner, its skipper, pz, admin, or Lika.

Cheers Tutu.
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  #122  
Old January 13th, 2009, 11:13 PM
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Default Re: Bad day on the sandbar

Wow. Very interesting stuff, LikeNui. Thanks for sharing.


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Originally Posted by LikaNui View Post
He was not a happy camper. (But that co-owner wrote here yesterday that the officials were "happy" with him. Hmmmm.)
I suspect corporate types are paid for how well they can spin and convince people to part with their money. No wonder they get bonuses when their companies fail!


Quote:
Due to overloading the boat, all of those through-hulls were noted as being underwater even as Aquadelica left the harbor on Sunday.
That's good to know. I thought some poor mechanic was gonna get blamed for "faulty" generator exhaust seals.


Quote:
They just bought it as a chick magnet.
Advice to all you gold diggers out there:
Wealthy men own private islands. They don't need public sand bars.
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  #123  
Old January 13th, 2009, 11:27 PM
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Default Re: Bad day on the sandbar

Idiot gold diggers with absolutely no clue of what money is....lol.
Rules of behavior that flex, bow, bend, and sway....lol.
Leaky containment booms....lol.
30 where 10 would do.....lol.
Trashbags as bilge plugs, or worse, environmental answers...lol.
One off snark HO's, who kinda suck at it....lol.

Plucking feathers fast as can, tar is hot in the pot.....passing the pot to Lika.

So cracking up right now. Roar, Laugh, Guffaw...dsolfgkjohfhgije gpiuf
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  #124  
Old January 13th, 2009, 11:39 PM
LikaNui's Avatar
LikaNui LikaNui is offline
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Location: Smokin' in da windward crib
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Default Re: Bad day on the sandbar

Quote:
Originally Posted by timkona View Post
.....passing the pot to Lika.
Passing it back.
Too many seeds and stems in your pot.

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  #125  
Old January 14th, 2009, 12:22 AM
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Kelly0040 Kelly0040 is offline
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Default Re: Bad day on the sandbar

Quote:
Originally Posted by LikaNui View Post
For 19.99, we can all have our own Aquadelica girl! http://www.toysrus.com/product/index...ductId=3336872
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