Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

What do you believe?

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #31
    Re: What do you believe?

    Originally posted by Leo Lakio View Post
    Atheism is not a religion. It has none of the trappings of a religion - no organized gatherings, no worship, no set of rules or teachings to follow obediently. If anything, it is the lack of (or better still, the rejection of) religion.
    All true, though it's possible to become religious and dogmatic again when someone starts making statements like "there is no God, there is no creator", a non-provable, non-falsifyable claim. It is also often referred to (unfortunately) as "atheism". These are the same people who probably fought tooth and nail against the idea of atoms, sub-atoms, and quantum mechanics back in the day

    Comment


    • #32
      Re: What do you believe?

      This is slightly different a topic than what I was referring to when I said I didn't understand it but still an interesting read:

      Court rules atheism a religion


      http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/ar...TICLE_ID=45874

      Comment


      • #33
        Re: What do you believe?

        I'm just wondering - for those who do not believe in a superior being, what happens on your deathbed? Do you ask God for forgiveness to save your soul or do you just pass away and whatever happens, happens.

        Logically, I can't see how those who do not believe in a superior being can explain the creation of the universe...an atom can't create itself. You can't get something out of nothing. Where's there's nothing, there's nothing.

        Comment


        • #34
          Re: What do you believe?

          Originally posted by ploal5333 View Post
          I'm just wondering - for those who do not believe in a superior being, what happens on your deathbed? Do you ask God for forgiveness to save your soul or do you just pass away and whatever happens, happens.

          Logically, I can't see how those who do not believe in a superior being can explain the creation of the universe...an atom can't create itself. You can't get something out of nothing. Where's there's nothing, there's nothing.
          The latter option. When I die, I'm done - all pau, end of story, no next chapter - "nothing" is what happens.

          Perhaps the universe that we know has always been in existence, never "created." Isn't that what people say about God, no beginning and no end?

          The universe is here, but there's no old, grey-bearded uber-being flipping the switches, pushing buttons and watching over every bacterial beastie on gazillions of closed-circuit TV sets.

          "Logically" speaking, faith in God can't be explained. But if you have faith in God, that's fine by me - I don't think you are ignorant or foolish or wrong or bad or inferior for it. It's just what your life has led you to; my experiences bring me to a different space. YMMV, as they say.

          Comment


          • #35
            Re: What do you believe?

            Originally posted by ploal5333 View Post
            I'm just wondering - for those who do not believe in a superior being, what happens on your deathbed? Do you ask God for forgiveness to save your soul or do you just pass away and whatever happens, happens.
            If I don't believe, why would I act as though I did? Just in case?

            Logically, I can't see how those who do not believe in a superior being can explain the creation of the universe...an atom can't create itself. You can't get something out of nothing. Where's there's nothing, there's nothing.
            Maybe there was never "nothing".
            Last edited by sinjin; July 16, 2007, 12:32 PM.
            “First we fought the preliminary round for the k***s and now we’re gonna fight the main event for the n*****s."
            http://hollywoodbitchslap.com/review...=416&printer=1

            Comment


            • #36
              Re: What do you believe?

              what do you believe?

              The birds and the bees and the flowers and the trees, and all the important stuff like that...

              do you participate in some sort of organized religion?

              My unorganized unreligion: birdwatching, botanizing, and investigating nature.

              does whatever faith you practice sometimes cause internal conflict for you?

              Yeah, I'm severely conflicted on days when I have to work instead of wander in the forest.

              if you're agnostic or athiest, does your faith (cause it is--i mean, to believe that there is no god is a faith of sorts, and choosing not to believe one way or another until one or the other is proven is a sort of faith, too) cause you conflict, too?

              Atheism isn't a sort of faith. It's the complete opposite, or absence thereof. Religion and "faith" are as foreign to atheists as contemplating the metaphysical powers of my bellybutton lint is to you.

              Comment


              • #37
                Re: What do you believe?

                Originally posted by Leo Lakio View Post
                The latter option. When I die, I'm done - all pau, end of story, no next chapter - "nothing" is what happens.
                Then why are we born? What is our purpose on earth, what is the meaning of life? There just has to be more. Just curious, do you believe in angels?

                Comment


                • #38
                  Re: What do you believe?

                  Originally posted by sinjin View Post
                  If I don't believe, why would I act as though I did? Just in case?
                  When confronted with death and finality, people can change their minds.

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Re: What do you believe?

                    My pastor once said that in the subconcious realm we all believe in some greater force than we. When confronted with the agonizing reality of dispair even athiests will raise their hands up in the air and shout out, "Why me?" as if asking that rhetorical question to some mythical being that has some control over their demise.

                    The subconcious can never be fooled, it is the part of our thought processes uninhibited by our concious attitudes and beliefs.

                    Who are we asking for answers when we don't believe in God? And for the bigger picture out there, why are we constantly looking for life out in the universe? To answer our very own existance? Why is it that for every discovery we find out in space...more questions arise.

                    If we aren't concerned with legacies when we die why in the world should we be concerned with how we formed our existance?

                    We are concerned with what we do on earth because what we do affects those still alive, so make all your endevours good ones for the benefit of mankind.

                    Our very existance conjures up even more questions as to why we are here not just how. In a chaotic world of primordial soup, there is no why, it just happens. Then so are our lives here on earth. Why are we here? In a faithless world, who the heck cares. But when rich in faith, "why" takes on strong statement as to our survival and continuation of our species as we run out of natural resources. Our drive for existance has to come from more than a chance at it. If we are bent on just living then dying with no legacy, then life has no meaning, we become embedded in our mortal lives with no outcome at the end, like worker ants.

                    There is a reason why we struggle for existance and survival. In our subconcious world, we all look to the sky for the answers. What are we looking for? Who are we looking at? What primal instincts made us look up for an answer. Is the answer up above? We all tend to look that way whether we believe or not.

                    Something is guiding us that way, something instinctive within our own souls tell us the answers lie in the skies above us. Maybe that's why we strive to look beyond our atmosphere for answers to our existance, like orphaned children we want answers to the unknown.

                    The world as we know it is rich in natural beauty, it's hard to believe that "chance" made it a wonderful place for human consumption. Like an artist's blank canvas, the beauty is held in the eye of the creator. Every dab of paint is an intentional act to create a larger picture of what the creator wants to envision.

                    Our world to me is like that canvas, where God as our creator envisioned a masterpiece and set to work and painted us into existance. Thru his eyes we are his work of art. As the dyes in the paint we are obligated to maintain that masterpiece. If we as dabs of paint fail to uphold this art piece, the painting we call mankind diminishes in it's beauty and life on earth terminates like a painting in the trash can. As a believer in God, this is why I believe in legacies. Our legacy is our attempt to preserve mankind.

                    But that's just me. I look at the world as a masterpiece and God as the artist that painted it. Work this good doesn't just happen, it's created!

                    Like a simple atomic structure to an entire galaxy, we follow a sense of order in how we behave in this universe. In a world of order...there is no chaos.
                    Life is what you make of it...so please read the instructions carefully.

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Re: What do you believe?

                      Originally posted by ploal5333 View Post
                      Then why are we born? What is our purpose on earth, what is the meaning of life? There just has to be more.
                      Ah, the self-important delusions of vain humans, to insist on believing that they have "purpose" or "meaning", or that some powerful metaphysical pseudo-being "loves" them. The feeble mumblings of scared children, clinging to mother's apron from birth to death. Pfff

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Re: What do you believe?

                        I believe in physics. Or should I say the laws of physics. I was raised in a household where we were raised to believe in nature and the forces of nature. I was taught that religons were man made. That the bible, quran (sp?) and torah were written by human beings. That those books are no more, or no less sacred than any other book. All books are sacred as they reveal the thoughts and emotions of the writers. Over the years I have studied these religons from an outsider's point of view. To me, christianity, judisim and islam are all one in the same. I see no difference. All are monotheistic and all are refering to the same god. The major differences come from the "rules" of conduct.

                        Someone (can't remember who and I can't go back and quote without losing what I've written) questioned where did atoms come from if not god? I believe that the idea of no beginning and no end refers to the intricate connection between energy and mass (E=mc^2) Energy becomes mass and mass becomes energy. The universe being created out of energy is something that can be proven - at least in the sense of creating atoms out of energy. And higher order atoms being created out of smaller atoms is also something that can be proven.

                        In a sense, I truely believe in reincarnation. All our thoughts are electro-magnetic in nature. Every thought we have ever had become an electromagnetic wave that will exist forever until it is recieved by something or someone - in exactly the same way a radio wave is transmitted and recieved. The only difference being in its wavelength and frequency.

                        I guess if I had to put a name to the way I believe - it would be closer to buddist philosophy. Actually, there is a book wriiten on the buddist/physics connections - "The Tau of Physics" which is very good reading.

                        One question that some christians/jews/islamics have asked me (or fellow physicists) is what would drive people to do good (or be good) if there were no religon to guide them. Why does one need to have a religon to be a good person. I personally have seen and met many "good" non religious people and many "bad" religious people. Just look at the catholic church leaders! Not being religious does not mean I do not care for my fellow humans/animals/plants etc. We are all the sum of the same basic particles. Our consciousness is also the sum of these same particles. (there are actually experiments going on right now to try to prove consciousness at the electron level)

                        Another thing that gets me when discussing religon - why is earth so special? To be sure, the existance of life as we know it requires the right combination of things. there is a formula (Drake equation) that estimates the number of technological civilizations possible and the numbers are staggering. So, to me, it is just a coincidence that we are here on this planet and not on another planet in another galaxy just like ours.

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Re: What do you believe?

                          Originally posted by ploal5333 View Post
                          Then why are we born? What is our purpose on earth, what is the meaning of life? There just has to be more. Just curious, do you believe in angels?
                          We are born because we are biological creatures with the instinctive imperative to sexually replicate our species - no higher purpose, and for the exact same reasons as a lowly toxic bacteria.

                          Fortunately, our species seems to have a capacity for knowledge and compassion that is higher than the afore-mentioned bacteria (as far as we can measure, that is.) Unfortunately, so many of us fail to use it. The best meaning I can think of for our human lives is to do the best we can in helping comfort each other.

                          Do I believe in angels? Auntie Pupule will shake her head in sorrow when she reads this (though I know she will understand me), but to be perfectly honest - no, I don't.

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Re: What do you believe?

                            Originally posted by craigwatanabe View Post
                            My pastor once said that in the subconcious realm we all believe in some greater force than we. When confronted with the agonizing reality of dispair even athiests will raise their hands up in the air and shout out, "Why me?" as if asking that rhetorical question to some mythical being that has some control over their demise. The subconcious can never be fooled, it is the part of our thought processes uninhibited by our concious attitudes and beliefs.
                            Well, I would require something a little more solid in the way of proof, beyond your pastor's assumption. Has there been research into the final thoughts and acts of atheists, to support such a hypothesis? (Besides - it's your pastor's job to put forth such an idea, is it not?)
                            Originally posted by craigwatanabe View Post
                            If we are bent on just living then dying with no legacy, then life has no meaning, we become embedded in our mortal lives with no outcome at the end, like worker ants.
                            What makes you think we deserve to be thought of as "better" than simple worker ants? Do they poison their environment? Do they plot against their brethren out of envy? Do we know the answers to these questions, or do we just make assumptions about other species, in order to elevate ourselves?
                            Originally posted by craigwatanabe View Post
                            The world as we know it is rich in natural beauty, it's hard to believe that "chance" made it a wonderful place for human consumption. Like an artist's blank canvas, the beauty is held in the eye of the creator. Every dab of paint is an intentional act to create a larger picture of what the creator wants to envision. --- But that's just me. I look at the world as a masterpiece and God as the artist that painted it. Work this good doesn't just happen, it's created!
                            Viewed from the perspective of an Earth-bound human that has evolved over the millennia, it seems natural that we would find our (until rather recently) inescapable home to be so filled with wonderous beauty. It's all we really know. We describe outer worlds as "hostile," but if living creatures existed on them for as long as we have on terra firma, they would likely find their home planets to be beautiful. It's all in recognizing that we can only represent one perspective accurately - so we can't assume all others are wrong.
                            Originally posted by craigwatanabe View Post
                            We are concerned with what we do on earth because what we do affects those still alive, so make all your endevours good ones for the benefit of mankind.
                            YES! And that is exactly why I like reading your comments on this topic, CW. This is the type of fundamental value that is one of the best things in most organized religions. And it needs no element of a "higher power" to encourage us to follow through on it.

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Re: What do you believe?

                              Howdy,

                              I believe that the christian bible is true, and that Jesus came as God born into a man's body, and that He is coming physically back, eventually to earth.

                              I do not attend any church because I believe it isn't necessary to do so. I feel that churches are nice social places if a person needs somewhere to meet other hopefully good people.

                              I think churches should be like going to the doctor...we should only need them temporarily, if at all. the churches claim they know the way to God. If they do, then once we let them point the way, and we have God, we don't need them anymore.

                              I am convinced that heaven does exist and that there will be some of every philosophy except clearly evil, in it. My christian bible says that Jesus is "the way" to God. That sounds as if it excludes all other religions and I, too get offended when thumpers use it to make every other philosophy's people feel they have no hope, nor the way to heaven. I think I've seen the reality of it all.

                              Jesus really is "the" way, but He is invisible. He loves us all, not just those of us raised in the religions that follow Him. He does knock on our hearts doors, but how? That silent pull on our conscience, I believe. Jesus said that He knocks on hearts and that those that answer, and invite Him in, that He comes into those hearts to live. Hmmm....okay, and He can't lie and He never changes, so as I see it, Jesus knocks on the hearts of us all, and those of us that Obey His urgings, He moves into our hearts, and not just of those that speak, preach and believe in Him by name.

                              Therefore I see that any person of any religion or philosophy that in honesty obeys the spirit's conscience....will make heaven. Bible also says those that practice righteousness ARE righteous and that the pure in heart will see God, so....I see that surely some people of every religion, if they purify their hearts by obeying their conscienes in all honesty, that if I make heaven, I will share it with them.

                              Surely if there is a salvation, heaven and hell that it is not just on an intellectual level, and I even believe that in some peoples' intellects, they have rejected the bible and name of Jesus simply because the religion they were born into, for example...does not pray to jesus, but at the same time I believe that some of these same people don't know the name of that sweet spirit that they are obeying, at the same time, and therefore that it is possible to be saved by jesus and not know it, and to just be a pure hearted, good soul of a person...going about being themselves, sorta like a bird is busy being a bird, not going to a church or school to learn how to be a better bird, but just being. In this way.....

                              I believe there are true Christians that aren't aware they fall under that label, all the while I sadly believe there are people that are in a christian church weekly, and believe that because they are that they've "got it" and are christians, saved and all, when they are not, not yet, anyway.

                              Lastly, I didn't raise my daughters in church because I was and I see how church can accidentally give a person a false sense of holiness and a false salvation. The beautiful music and environment can make a person feel holy when nothing inside them has changed, and so I chose to just live it...the best I could, and to share my beliefs too, and hope our daughters got the real thing and not what I believe even many of my own wonderful cousins have...various emotional experiences, but nothing's really new or changed inside them.

                              Just my two cents and sorry it was ramble style. I like this subject and brainstormed, literally thinking into my keyboard. Now, I want to go read what everyone else believes.
                              Stop being lost in thought where our problems thrive.~

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Re: What do you believe?

                                It's a sad day when I need to argue about my personal faith and beliefs ONLINE!

                                I will stick with my own belief, I will respect that you can believe in whatever you want, agree with me or not, and you respect the fact I believe whatever I want, agree with you or not!
                                I won't try to change your mind and if you need to ask me about my faith, than I will share, but not push.
                                Since when is psycho a bad thing??
                                Sharing withother survivors...
                                www.supportandsurvive.org

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X