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A hui hou, Hamamoto!

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  • #16
    Re: A hui hou, Hamamoto!

    Being born and raised in East Honolulu going to a pretty good high school (Kalani), and having been on the PTSA at Hokulani Elementary school by UH Manoa...then moving here to the Big Island and having to deal with the more rural schools, I can see a major contrast in what is perceived as important in a child's life depending on where you live.

    Here on the Big Island education is not seen as a major part of some high schoolers. They are raised by parents who value hard work over education. That in itself is okay if not admirable. However when applying for a job "hard work" sometimes doesn't cut it over "College Educated", so some of these students never strive for higher education and end up working with their Uncle doing automotive bodywork, fishing, or even joining the military because that was all that was left after graduating from high school.

    How can these students compare against the more urban public schools where education is pounded in their heads from the school and parents? Many DOE teachers that start off begin at the rural schools. But when they earn their stripes, they move into the City schools leaving a brain drain back where they started from. What happens to these students when they see their favorite teacher bail on them for a better school? They feel left out and abandoned, so what kind of incentive is that to move forward when their role models are selfish teachers, disrespectful parents and self serving school administators wishing to get out of that school?

    And it's these very students that bring down the school scores. But who's fault is that? The student? The parents? The teachers? The administration? How about all of them, but who is the loser? The student.

    Sure the major public schools are keeping the average from dropping any lower, and it's the rural schools that are dragging the entire school system into an abyss, but it is these students (rural students) that need the support to boost themselves so they can develop high scores on their own and it starts with deploying better incentives for teachers to stay in rural schools, for parents to support their children better in and out of school (education starts in the home), and for our school administrators to start putting more of the DOE's budget into the schools and students rather than the top heavy beauracracy within it's adminstrative ranks.

    It takes a village? Well we are the villagers. Who's gonna start first!
    Life is what you make of it...so please read the instructions carefully.

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    • #17
      Re: A hui hou, Hamamoto!

      Originally posted by escondido100 View Post
      ...with some of the lowest test scores and graduation rates in the country. if i remember correctly we are always 47,48 0r 49 out the 50 states.
      If you could cite some published numbers somewhere, we might be able to have a good conversation about this. As others have mentioned, the numbers are heavily skewed by (a) the number of private-school students we have here and (b) the percentage of non-English-speaking students we have. We are also affected by a large district (yes, it is state-wide and it is the only state-wide district in the nation, but there are a couple of positives to that), tough unions, and huge bureaucracies. Compare that to a place like Washington, D.C, where Michelle Rhee was given complete authority to hire and fire teachers and administrators and build a school system that works toward her vision of efficacy and you can see where a lot of our problems are.

      I would add that an elected school board probably doesn't help matters either. Do you know who you voted for in the last BOE elections, and do you really know why? Should such a powerful board be elected by regular hoi polloi such as you and me? Or should instead a board be put in place by someone who knows a thing or two about education? There are biases all over the place, no matter what system we use toward that end. For example, I believe that it's silly to have a board made up of people who don't know the first thing about what it's like to work in the classroom. How is a teacher supposed to take seriously instructions given to him or her by people who don't have the credentials, education, or experience to know what works in the classroom and what doesn't?

      On the other hand, many people (my father included) think that a school system needs to be run not by educators, but by managers, and that the correct model should be more like a successful corporation. There are arguments to be made for that approach as well (though if you ask me, that's doomed to failure because a corporation doesn't have the kind of mandate our public schools have, which is to provide education to ALL students whether they want it or not).

      In any case, all things considered, I think it's myopic to call our school system one of the worst in the country. The truth is that for students who seek it, a quality education can be had in our public school system. The problem is as Craig describes: when the students and their parents don't value education as much as other concerns, no matter what the reason, how is a teacher supposed to be successful, and how is that success supposed to be measured?

      A friend of mine is a recreation director for the city and county in one of our state's rural areas. He says that on the morning football registrations open, parents are in line at 6:00 in the morning, hours before the sign-ups begin. Another friend of mine who teaches in a public school in the same community says that on open-house night, she's lucky if five parents of her twenty-four students show up. I ask you: if the students have difficulty with skill development in her classroom, is it really her fault? And if so, what would YOU do in the classroom in order to be successful teaching these students?
      But I'm disturbed! I'm depressed! I'm inadequate! I GOT IT ALL! (George Costanza)
      GrouchyTeacher.com

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      • #18
        Re: A hui hou, Hamamoto!

        Originally posted by scrivener View Post
        A friend of mine is a recreation director for the city and county in one of our state's rural areas. He says that on the morning football registrations open, parents are in line at 6:00 in the morning, hours before the sign-ups begin. Another friend of mine who teaches in a public school in the same community says that on open-house night, she's lucky if five parents of her twenty-four students show up. I ask you: if the students have difficulty with skill development in her classroom, is it really her fault? And if so, what would YOU do in the classroom in order to be successful teaching these students?

        That's sad. When I was on PTSA boards, we'd have it in the cafeteria to hold all the parents who came. Here on the Big Island at one rural school in lower Puna, you could conduct a PTSA meeting with one picnic bench with room for the few bags of chips and paperwork as well. It's really pathetic out here in the rural areas but it's because families out there don't value education the way we do elsewhere.

        Parents...you made your kids, you have THE most importance in educating them. School is only a tool for you to use. If it's dull then you must work that tool to make it effective again. And you do that by attending your PTSA meetings, volunteering in classrooms, showing your children you care about their schooling by being a part of it, and participating in your children's homework and school activities, not simply complaining about it.

        I guess if I were Pat Hamamoto, I'd be throwing my hands up in disgust too.
        Life is what you make of it...so please read the instructions carefully.

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        • #19
          Re: A hui hou, Hamamoto!

          http://nces.ed.gov/nationsreportcard...t=MN&acc=false

          the above website has tons of data that shows comparisons between states.
          i do notice a trend towards improvement but we are still behind many other states in progress with a wide gap between the top and bottom.
          i know that hawaii as many special circumstances but other areas do too.
          i really think that we need to take some power away from the unions and back to the local areas. establishment of local school boards mat re-empower people to get involved.

          due to the entrenched power of the existing system i fear it may never happen.
          the bigger the government the smaller the citizen.

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          • #20
            Re: A hui hou, Hamamoto!

            whisper *charter schools, charter schools * whisper
            "Democracy is the only system that persists in asking the powers that be whether they are the powers that ought to be."
            – Sydney J. Harris

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            • #21
              Re: A hui hou, Hamamoto!

              Originally posted by anapuni808 View Post
              whisper *charter schools, charter schools * whisper
              I whispered that in Herbert Watanabe's ear one night at a dinner meeting. He almost gagged on his dinner.
              Life is what you make of it...so please read the instructions carefully.

              Comment


              • #22
                Re: A hui hou, Hamamoto!

                Originally posted by scrivener View Post
                A friend of mine is a recreation director for the city and county in one of our state's rural areas. He says that on the morning football registrations open, parents are in line at 6:00 in the morning, hours before the sign-ups begin. Another friend of mine who teaches in a public school in the same community says that on open-house night, she's lucky if five parents of her twenty-four students show up. I ask you: if the students have difficulty with skill development in her classroom, is it really her fault? And if so, what would YOU do in the classroom in order to be successful teaching these students?
                This is very similar to Kauai.

                The apathy towards education is pathetic here. I don't know what has caused it, but with each generation, I feel like there is a drastic change in priorities that parents have for their kids.

                And it doesn't help that people think that they are involved in or concerned about politics by simply voting. So many issues are not completely understood by these parents who have opinions shaped (warped?) by the media, and we have an elected BOE--dangerous combination here.
                Twitter: LookMaICanWrite


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                • #23
                  Re: A hui hou, Hamamoto!

                  Originally posted by craigwatanabe View Post
                  it is these students (rural students) that need the support to boost themselves so they can develop high scores on their own and it starts with deploying better incentives for teachers to stay in rural schools, for parents to support their children better in and out of school (education starts in the home), and for our school administrators to start putting more of the DOE's budget into the schools and students rather than the top heavy beauracracy within it's adminstrative ranks.
                  Unfortunately, as long as laws like “No Child Left Behind” and the “Felix-Consent decree” have such a massive influence on our public school system, your solution is simply unattainable on a practical basis. These two laws are the reasons we have such a massive “top-heavy bureacracy” within the DOE administration in the first place.

                  Word of the day: compliance.

                  We can’t be so fixated on our desire to preserve the rights of ordinary Americans.

                  — U.S. President Bill Clinton
                  USA TODAY, page 2A
                  11 March 1993

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                  • #24
                    Re: A hui hou, Hamamoto!

                    Originally posted by TuNnL View Post
                    Unfortunately, as long as laws like “No Child Left Behind” and the “Felix-Consent decree” have such a massive influence on our public school system, your solution is simply unattainable on a practical basis. These two laws are the reasons we have such a massive “top-heavy bureacracy” within the DOE administration in the first place.

                    Word of the day: compliance.
                    I co-sign this. In some of the schools I've worked with on this island, the administration and support staff (office, special-ed indirect service staff, etc.) outnumber actual teachers.
                    Twitter: LookMaICanWrite


                    flickr

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                    • #25
                      Re: A hui hou, Hamamoto!

                      Originally posted by craigwatanabe View Post
                      I can see a major contrast in what is perceived as important in a child's life depending on where you live.
                      Here on the Big Island education is not seen as a major part of some high schoolers.
                      How can these students compare against the more urban public schools where education is pounded in their heads from the school and parents?
                      It takes a village? Well we are the villagers. Who's gonna start first!
                      Originally posted by scrivener View Post
                      If you could cite some published numbers somewhere, we might be able to have a good conversation about this. As others have mentioned, the numbers are heavily skewed by (a) the number of private-school students we have here and (b) the percentage of non-English-speaking students we have.
                      We are also affected by a large district (yes, it is state-wide and it is the only state-wide district in the nation, but there are a couple of positives to that), tough unions, and huge bureaucracies. Compare that to a place like Washington, D.C, where Michelle Rhee was given complete authority to hire and fire teachers and administrators and build a school system that works toward her vision of efficacy and you can see where a lot of our problems are.
                      On the other hand, many people (my father included) think that a school system needs to be run not by educators, but by managers, and that the correct model should be more like a successful corporation.
                      In any case, all things considered, I think it's myopic to call our school system one of the worst in the country. The truth is that for students who seek it, a quality education can be had in our public school system.
                      It's easy to base criticism on the narrow perspective of the national rankings. I attended public schools on the Mainland and parented a kid through a Mainland preschool as well as K-12 in one of Oahu's public schools. From our (admittedly biased) perspective the state's public school system seems to be meeting our requirements. Our kid's been accepted at one of the nation's best engineering schools (Rice U in Houston) on an NROTC scholarship, as well as USNA. Word hasn't come back from Notre Dame, Carnegie-Mellon, or Rensselaer yet but I don't think they'll say "No".

                      A big advantage of the state-wide system is the ability to put the resources where they're needed most. If this was a Mainland system then the neighborhoods with the highest property-tax revenue would have the best schools and there wouldn't be any easy governmental way to put extra money into the poorer districts. And the parents who cared about their kids' educations would all be moving to Hawaii Kai.

                      I think Hawaii's teachers are doing the best they can with what they have. Like any other large corporation, union or not, some teachers do the bare minimum to reach a pension while others are superstars. The admin staffs aren't doing an unsatisfactory job. Hawaii's international and cultural demographics are simply not comparable to the Mainland (nor should they be) and Mainland schools just don't have the same challenges-- especially with a common culture & language. Yes, I grew up in a multicultural neighborhood, but in the 1960s you were expected to put away your culture and adapt to the educational system's standards, not the other way around. Teaching in one language, for example, makes life a lot easier for the teachers.

                      I think a school's difference is the parents. If education is a parental priority then they'll make it happen. If the priority is sports & surfing & partying then... it won't happen while the kids are minors.

                      Students can still overcome their backgrounds. If education doesn't happen in high school, it can happen later. A lackluster high-school student can turn into an outstanding education-oriented adult who regrets the "wasted years" and makes education a priority for their kids.

                      I spent the majority of my military career at training commands, both as a student and as an instructor. When I worked with 50 submariners at a training command, every year 8-10 of them would get their college degrees. A couple got their masters' and one even pulled down a PhD. These guys generally "got through" high school, fumbled around for a few years, and then joined the military largely because they felt it was their only remaining option. After a few years in a very different culture from the one they were raised in, education became a huge (and very rewarding) priority. These guys got their degrees despite obstacles that would make your average college student quit in despair. At their homes, education was the priority, demonstrated because Mom & Dad were sitting right there at the table with their kids churning through their own homework.

                      It's presumably not just Hawaii-- by many benchmarks, the American education is falling far behind the rest of the world. Yet how many citizens of other countries are trying to get into the American college system? How many of us Americans dream of sending our kids to a Japanese, Chinese, Korean, Filipino, Indian, European, or Mexican college?

                      Hawaii's school administrators could be much better operational and fiscal stewards. The corporate model might help that a little, but I'm skeptical-- the vast majority of American corporations also waste huge amounts of their resources yet still somehow lurch to profitability.

                      But when it comes to assessing the performance of the school system, I don't look to global or Mainland ranking systems-- I look at the parents.
                      Youth may be wasted on the young, but retirement is wasted on the old.
                      Live like you're dying, invest like you're immortal.
                      We grow old if we stop playing, but it's never too late to have a happy childhood.
                      Forget about who you were-- discover who you are.

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                      • #26
                        Re: A hui hou, Hamamoto!

                        Originally posted by Nords View Post
                        It's presumably not just Hawaii-- by many benchmarks, the American education is falling far behind the rest of the world. Yet how many citizens of other countries are trying to get into the American college system? How many of us Americans dream of sending our kids to a Japanese, Chinese, Korean, Filipino, Indian, European, or Mexican college?
                        Post of the month.

                        I'll add that unlike many of the nations that have supposedly superior public educational systems, the United States mandates that all students are entitled to a public education. As you well know, in Japan it doesn't quite work out that way: if you don't have what it takes to cut it in their public schools, you have to go to a private school.
                        But I'm disturbed! I'm depressed! I'm inadequate! I GOT IT ALL! (George Costanza)
                        GrouchyTeacher.com

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                        • #27
                          Re: A hui hou, Hamamoto!

                          Originally posted by Nords View Post
                          I think a school's difference is the parents. If education is a parental priority then they'll make it happen. If the priority is sports & surfing & partying then... it won't happen while the kids are minors.
                          EUREKA!!!!! Finally, some good old-fashioned common sense has managed to make its way into the discussion.

                          All this talk about elected vs. appointed BOE members, a local vs an outsider as state schools superintendent, the impact of federal mandates...... all of that combined 1000X over doesn't even come close to the difference that parental involvement makes in a child's education.

                          OTOH, if anybody else wants to find scapegoats and point the finger of blame at somebody or something, then disregard what Nords has to say. But when all is said and done, a lot more gets said than done in that kind of unproductive discussion.

                          Originally posted by Nords View Post
                          Students can still overcome their backgrounds. If education doesn't happen in high school, it can happen later. A lackluster high-school student can turn into an outstanding education-oriented adult who regrets the "wasted years" and makes education a priority for their kids.
                          I come across a lot of educational materials/programs that incorporates instilling values and character in students. That is fine. But so much of it nowadays focuses on dignity and self-esteem. There needs to be more emphasis placed on civic responsibility and resiliency.
                          This post may contain an opinion that may conflict with your opinion. Do not take it personal. Polite discussion of difference of opinion is welcome.

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                          • #28
                            Re: A hui hou, Hamamoto!

                            Well, so much for spending more time with her family, being a storyteller to children in the library, and reading to the blind. Pat Hamamoto is the new principal at St. Louis School after only a little more than a month of retirement from the DOE.
                            This post may contain an opinion that may conflict with your opinion. Do not take it personal. Polite discussion of difference of opinion is welcome.

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                            • #29
                              Re: A hui hou, Hamamoto!

                              Originally posted by Frankie's Market View Post
                              Well, so much for spending more time with her family, being a storyteller to children in the library, and reading to the blind. Pat Hamamoto is the new principal at St. Louis School after only a little more than a month of retirement from the DOE.
                              Hmmm well maybe her kids go to St. Louis, and the kids at St. Louis are blind and children....hmmmmm....
                              Life is what you make of it...so please read the instructions carefully.

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                              • #30
                                Re: A hui hou, Hamamoto!

                                Originally posted by Frankie's Market View Post
                                Well, so much for spending more time with her family, being a storyteller to children in the library, and reading to the blind. Pat Hamamoto is the new principal at St. Louis School after only a little more than a month of retirement from the DOE.
                                Does having a job as principal prevent her from volunteering as a storyteller and reader?

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