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  • #16
    mass transit renderings

    Okay I saw the renderings of what the rail would look like thru University. Frankly I think the cement overpass looks nice compared to the urbanized look of without. At least there will be some shade with the overpass. Maybe they can incorporate the utility lines into the design and get rid of those really ugly power/cable/telephone lines and poles and perhaps install the street lighting underneath.

    But the second set of pictures showing the Aloha Tower marketplace shows the same before and after shots as the "before" by their description you can't tell the difference

    http://starbulletin.com/2006/06/23/news/story02.html

    I think the design is nice with the sculpted look. Kinda gives Moilili a 21st century look to it. It'll look even more at home once the graphitti artists figure out a way to climb to the underpinnings of the cement guides
    Last edited by craigwatanabe; June 23, 2006, 12:02 PM.
    Life is what you make of it...so please read the instructions carefully.

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    • #17
      Re: mass transit renderings

      Seing the flyover and the huge supports can be jarring... but that's what an elevated rail system looks like. I think they're honest and realistic, but to be sure they'll stop a few folks dead in their tracks (no pun intended... at least not initially). Various tricks could be used to make them look more pretty, but I'm glad the renderings were mostly straightforward.

      Originally posted by craigwatanabe
      But the second set of pictures showing the Aloha Tower marketplace shows the same before and after shots as the "before" by their description you can't tell the difference
      Well, that's the one sneaky one. If you look closely, the elevated rail is visible through the trees. Why they'd pick that angle for a rendering makes no sense... except that it was probably easy to create and proves that you might not see too much concrete from Chai's!

      Will the intersection of University and Beretania be significantly transformed by the rail line? Yes, but in many, many ways beyond the view -- for both better and worse.

      An elevated rail along Kamehameha Highway in Aiea or over Nimitz near downtown won't be pretty... but the H-1 airport viaduct and Moanalua Freeway through Makiki ain't pretty either. I'd take an elevated rail over a six-lane interstate, that's for darn sure.

      And as some have noted, several of the areas through which the line is proposed to run aren't exactly urban design showcases, anyway. A rail line and rail stations, well planned, can actually be part of the impetus to improve and develop districts (primarily industrial and commercial) that have, until now, basically been left to decay.

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      • #18
        Re: mass transit renderings

        They're saying it'll cost three billion dollars just to do Kapolei to Honolulu.

        We need to stop this insanity. Instead, spend the money on infrastructure like, oh, you know, maybe sewer lines?! And repair the schools that are falling apart.
        Ya think?
        .
        .

        That's my story, and I'm sticking to it.

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        • #19
          Re: mass transit renderings

          Originally posted by LikaNui
          They're saying it'll cost three billion dollars just to do Kapolei to Honolulu.

          We need to stop this insanity. Instead, spend the money on infrastructure like, oh, you know, maybe sewer lines?! And repair the schools that are falling apart.
          Ya think?

          Don't make me think...Today was a dangerous example when you give someone the opportunity to exercise his noggin.

          But since you asked Three BILLION dollars (picks teeth with pinky) man that's a lot of transit taxes for you folks on Oahu. Someone should do a survey and see just how many people that segment will accomodate and divide it into the three BILLION (pinky still in teeth) dollars and see if it's viable enough. Something tells me that for the amount per person this rail will be handling, you could probably buy each one of those potential riders a new car and let them drive themselves to work cheaper.
          Life is what you make of it...so please read the instructions carefully.

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          • #20
            Re: mass transit renderings

            Doing any sort of mass transit on Oahu is a kin to shooting yourself in the foot, only question is which foot do you shoot and there is the possibilty that you might hit some other piece of your leg (like the knee).

            A raised rail line is way better than having a rail line on the ground level but that means that the stations need elevators to be ADA compliant, that itself is going to add staff to make sure that is in working working.

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            • #21
              Re: mass transit renderings

              So what else are we supposed to do?

              Rail is long overdue here in Honolulu. We'd better get started on this now, rather than later.

              I don't see the freakouts about all the ugly buildings sprouting up all over Honolulu... this elevated rail line is being made out to be the most horrific thing to grace the skyline. I can think of many others.

              It's time to grow up and realize it's going to take money and a sacrifice of a little blue sky to help with the crazy traffic situation on this island.

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              • #22
                Re: mass transit renderings

                I really hoped that someone who has Sim City 4: Rush Hour made a mock city of Honolulu and tried to see the result of this.

                Like I said in another forum, we need to control the population unless we want the island to sink.
                How'd I get so white and nerdy?

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                • #23
                  Re: mass transit renderings

                  3 billion!!!

                  I dunno... I guess I gotta bite the bullet!

                  It's current route and proposal makes it useless in my career or for that matter current driving patterns that I make.

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                  • #24
                    Re: mass transit renderings

                    Three billion??? That doesn't include buying the land for stations and rights of way, or even the costs of the trains.

                    And, come on...what large public works project has EVER come in on time and budget????

                    This will easily top $4.5 Billion. It will require permanently raising the general excise tax to 5-6%. the 4.25% was just a foot in the door, and they knew it from the beginning.

                    Our 4% GET is already equal to an 12% sales tax (due to pyramiding). Paying for transit will raise it to about 20%.

                    If the GET was an honest tax (with nothing hidden in the shelf price) the public would never approve it.

                    Bob Sigall

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                    • #25
                      Re: mass transit renderings

                      Originally posted by Creative-1
                      This will easily top $4.5 Billion. It will require permanently raising the general excise tax to 5-6%. the 4.25% was just a foot in the door, and they knew it from the beginning.

                      Our 4% GET is already equal to an 12% sales tax (due to pyramiding). Paying for transit will raise it to about 20%.
                      Was it Mayor Hanneman who recently proposed raising the GET this year to 4.5%? As if THAT would even make a dent in $4.5 Bijilliroonz.

                      "takes toothpick out of mouth now to sigh*

                      Just don't run that rail here in Hawaii Kai. Waste $$$. Most of the affluent folks here (me not included) will still drive their own car to work.
                      sigpic The Tasty Island

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                      • #26
                        Re: mass transit renderings

                        This is the train that is going to take taxpayer money deeper into hell.

                        Next thing they are going to do is come and take away land from the unfortunate landowners that may be near the route through the use of eminent domain.

                        Also no one is talking about how much the actual vehicles (train) is going to cost, much less the maintenance and operation of the system. We already have to use property taxes to pay for subsidizing The Bus. People are screaming about high property taxes and now the city has made a one time adjustment to give homeowners a break but transfer the burden to commercial property owners. I guess no one thinks that just like the GE tax increase, those kind of business transfers get passed on to the end user (consumers, you and me) through higher prices for everything we buy.

                        When is the madness of more taxes, more cost, more government and mess transit is going to end?


                        Let Honolulu Vote
                        I'm still here. Are you?

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                        • #27
                          Re: mass transit renderings

                          Originally posted by mel
                          Next thing they are going to do is come and take away land from the unfortunate landowners that may be near the route through the use of eminent domain.
                          I hate seeing this happen. all for the public good. private land owner has a ranch near Chinaman's hat.
                          Stolen away from them for public park.
                          Homeless hselter will be displacing many small businesses at river and beretania. all for the "public good".
                          Liliha redevelopment will completely destroy the look and small town Old Hawaii feel of the place. It will nothing more than resemble a stripmall in the el lay valley. and many businesse will be forced to shut down. buildings and residences taken away from owners and renters.
                          This yuppification of all parts of Hawaii... hate to see it.

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                          • #28
                            Re: mass transit renderings

                            Originally posted by Pomai
                            Was it Mayor Hanneman who recently proposed raising the GET this year to 4.5%? As if THAT would even make a dent in $4.5 Bijilliroonz.

                            "takes toothpick out of mouth now to sigh*

                            Just don't run that rail here in Hawaii Kai. Waste $$$. Most of the affluent folks here (me not included) will still drive their own car to work.

                            Yes, Pomai, da Mayor proposed 4.5%. They sensed the public's unwillingness for such an increase and decided to do it in multiple stages, starting with a 1/4%.

                            That would be enough for road solutions. HOT lanes would even pay for themselves and carry more people than a rail line.

                            The average rail system in the US only attracts 5% of commuters. Honolulu planners this week projected it would
                            serve 120,000 to 150,000 riders per day. That's 25-40% of commuters.

                            New York has the highest ridership, but still only gets 15% of commuters. They have stations every 1/4 mile. Everyone lives and works within walking distance of the 5 lines that traverse Manhatten.

                            How can they think one Leeward line in an area wider than Manhatten will attract that many riders???
                            Last edited by Creative-1; June 25, 2006, 11:29 AM.

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                            • #29
                              Re: mass transit renderings

                              New renderings were just posted at this link.
                              After looking at them, I just want to know where the station will be to get off for Adventureland and Tomorrowland and the Matterhorn.
                              .
                              .

                              That's my story, and I'm sticking to it.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Re: mass transit renderings

                                Originally posted by LikaNui
                                New renderings were just posted at this link.
                                After looking at them, I just want to know where the station will be to get off for Adventureland and Tomorrowland and the Matterhorn.
                                Remember that chase scene in the "French Connection"? All I can picture is some crack-addicted lolo leading the HPD on a wild ride through the pillars...kinda like a slalom obstacle course. People do it sometimes under the Seattle Monorail.

                                Miulang

                                P.S. One thing the proponents of this mode of transportation need to consider is how long it's going to take to build. As an example, the first time the Seattle voters authorized the establishment of an expanded Monorail system, the price tag was like $3 billion (this was in the early 90s). By the time all the land was acquired (yes, through eminent domain) and after a series of raucous public meetings in 2005, the monorail authority sheepishly admitted that they had "underestimated" the total cost of the 26 mile line. So they went back to the drawing board and came up with a line that was only 13 miles long, didn't really go where it needed to go and said, "oh by the way, the price tag for the 13-mile line is going to be $13 billion. At that point, the taxpayers of Seattle said enough is enough and through a referendum, soundly killed the expanded Monorail line. In the meantime, I paid $1500 in car tab surcharges over 3 years to get nothing in return, and the County had a debt of $3 billion. They sold all the land they acquired and made money on the sale, so it allowed them to retire the debt this past April. But we still got nothing.
                                Last edited by Miulang; June 26, 2006, 02:29 PM.
                                "Americans believe in three freedoms. Freedom of speech; freedom of religion; and the freedom to deny the other two to folks they don`t like.” --Mark Twain

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