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View Poll Results: Should New Years fireworks be banned?
Yes, only professional displays should be allowed 13 50.00%
No, everyone should be allowed to use fireworks 13 50.00%
Voters: 26. You may not vote on this poll

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  #126  
Old January 16th, 2009, 04:12 AM
integlspwr integlspwr is offline
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Default Re: Ban New Years fireworks?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Amati View Post
Well then bye-bye, go somewhere else if you don't like the discussion. The thread is titled "Ban New Years fireworks", if you are not interested in the discussion then DON'T SHOW UP HERE and "waste" your time.
It is one thing to disagree, that is what threads are for (i.e. discussion), but really if you perceive it as "wasting" your time, you should simply go elsewhere.
I love the discussion and everyone makes a good point, but sounds like ignorant locals that say "if you don't like it, then you can leave the island"

But i dont think a out right ban will work, hell aeriels are supposely banned but thats what lit up the oahu sky.

People should ban those morning glories and fountains and tax the aeriels.
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  #127  
Old January 16th, 2009, 04:38 AM
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Thumbs up Re: Ban New Years fireworks?

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Originally Posted by integlspwr View Post

But I don't think an out right ban will work, hell aerials are supposedly banned but that's what lit up the oahu sky.

People should ban those morning glories and fountains and tax the aerials.
Good idea! This scenario would be a wonderful improvement and a compromise meeting half way. Well done.
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  #128  
Old January 16th, 2009, 02:31 PM
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Lightbulb Re: Ban New Years fireworks?

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Originally Posted by integlspwr View Post
everyone makes a good point, but sounds like ignorant locals that say "if you don't like it, then you can leave the island"
I’m curious — how exactly does an ‘ignorant local’ sound? Is it similar to the noise of a mainland haole? Please, do enlighten me.
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  #129  
Old January 17th, 2009, 12:38 AM
Walkoff Balk Walkoff Balk is offline
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Default Re: Ban New Years fireworks?

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Originally Posted by integlspwr View Post
I love the discussion and everyone makes a good point, but sounds like ignorant locals that say "if you don't like it, then you can leave the island"
Were there any "Love It or Leave It" signs against Vietnam War protesters.
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  #130  
Old January 17th, 2009, 01:29 AM
Paul Valenti Paul Valenti is offline
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Default Re: Ban New Years fireworks?

Aloha Everyone

After much freezing here in moldland - I have returned to bring comforty and joy to you all:

Amati – I am so sorry you missed me so much – I will try not to let it happen again.

Ron Whitfield – sometimes living means breaking the law. I know you will think my attitude high handed – and maybe it is – but, if that law is bad? If it were a little easier to change the laws, or at least arrive at some kind of compromise, perhaps I wouldn’t be so cavalier. But, as I have watched this country become ever more divided, and as I have watched old Hawaii ideas and practices clash with newer, more mainland ways of doing things, I begin to despair of ever seeing the kinds of compromises that we can all live with. Between the damage done by the thieves who have been running our government and the damage done by inflexible, rigid moral purists (AKA the religious right – BTW did you hear about the moron who has raised a ruckus about the Kansas City Zoo having a Buddha as part of their Asian geography exhibit because “it infuriates God!) I wonder if we can all ever agree on anything again.

In regard to your remarks about a general agreement about the need to ban fireworks – I am just not sure you are right. It seems to me that if there were such a consensus we would see greater neighborhood cooperation in attempts to stop fireworks scofflaws, and less general participation in the fireworks activities themselves. If one were to judge by the volume and numbers who buy and use fireworks it would be as easy to come to the conclusion that there was a statewide consensus on the need for fireworks – but, that’s juts my impression.

And to AlohaKine all I can say is YES, YES, YES!

To Tutusue (and to TuNnL as well) – first I apologize for my failure to discern your gender – I never looked at the avatar and I am afraid I have been away from home for so long that I have probably forgotten much that will come back when I do – although if your name had been posted as TUTU SUE instead of tutusue I might have gotten it. AND, despite your crack about my not comprehending what others are saying before replying – that’s not the case, just because I don’t agree doesn’t mean I haven’t heard what you said.

That said, I don’t think we are that far apart in regard to fireworks – we both believe that some kind of compromise is the best answer – but, I suspect you just don’t like my tone – despite that, I am not unsympathetic to the plight of lung patients – not to mention the elderly (one of whom is my 84 year old Mother) or the plight of dogs, cats, and many children. Nevertheless, they are not the only ones on the bus!

And, for those of you (who will remain unnamed) who seem to take this all way too seriously, I can only say, why be so rude? A good conversation and a spirited disagreement is one thing – reporting to ad hominem only shows us all what a brook trout you are. Indeed, it can be amazingly entertaining to wave the rod over the pod and see how many trout rise to the bait – Life is way too serious to take seriously. Try to relax, enjoy the conversation, state your piece and don’t get so bent out of shape, you’ll live longer.

So, I will restate my position on fireworks - a fair law of the sort that recognizes the needs, and (selfish) desires of one group does not necessarily have to exclude or ignore the needs or concerns of another - compromise and an effort to find a solution is what is needed - not a lot of ad hominem attacks about my selfishness or their health problems.

Oh yeah, like Amati, I wonder how exactly does an “ignorant local” sound?
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  #131  
Old January 23rd, 2009, 03:18 AM
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hi this is sansei and from what i hear on tonight's news,i heard they want to ban non commericial fireworks and the chinese community disagree's is they the chinese are right that they shouldnt is it's been a tradition for year's and they imoho should keep firework's going and not take it away from people chinese or otherwise.it would be ok to ban airial firework's since once it caused a fire on my aunt's and uncle's roof in kapahulu and they had to repair it and that was once my deceased grandfather and deceased grandmother's home so it's good if they ban airial firework's.

well thank's for your time
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  #132  
Old January 23rd, 2009, 03:31 AM
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Default Re: Ban New Years fireworks?

Sansei spoke of a news story, here is a link to a news report tonight on the fireworks ban bill:

http://www.khnl.com/Global/story.asp?S=9719802

From the report, quoted from president of the Chinese Chamber of Commerce, Ted Li:

"You know whoever introduce a bill would not be re-elected again," said Li. "I think the people would be very upset and hate that individual that introduce the bill."

I'm not so sure about that, after following this thread. Seems like many support a ban.
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  #133  
Old January 23rd, 2009, 07:19 PM
Paul Valenti Paul Valenti is offline
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Default Re: Ban New Years fireworks?

Despite Amati's unusual interpretation of the thread - which appears to be pretty evenly split between thpose for and those against, I would be Mr. Li is right - Personally, I wouldn't vote for anyone who introduced a bill banning fireworks - and I don't think that vast bulk of the Chinese community would either. BTW - this blather about banning fireowrks has been around since I was small time kid - I wouldn't hold my breathe in hopes of getting a ban anytime soon.
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  #134  
Old January 24th, 2009, 03:12 AM
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Default Re: Ban New Years fireworks?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Amati View Post
I'm not so sure about that, after following this thread. Seems like many support a ban.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul Valenti View Post
Despite Amati's unusual interpretation of the thread - which appears to be pretty evenly split between thpose for and those against, I would be Mr. Li is right -.
I stand by my statement that many would support a ban, there are numerous comments in this thread in support of a fireworks ban. Is there enough support in the community and legislature to bring about a new law? Maybe, maybe not.
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  #135  
Old January 24th, 2009, 05:14 AM
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Post Re: Ban New Years fireworks?

What is... is. Of course, but

It just seems unfair that I and others that would rather not,
have to put up with all that smoke, possibilities of fires, etc...
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  #136  
Old January 24th, 2009, 05:25 AM
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Default Re: Ban New Years fireworks?

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Originally Posted by Menehune Man View Post
What is... is. Of course, but

It just seems unfair that I and others that would rather not,
have to put up with all that smoke, possibilities of fires, etc...
Owing to the threats of terrorism. Fireworks have been banned in Ireland. The UK and the rest of Europe will be soon to follow.
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  #137  
Old January 24th, 2009, 05:27 AM
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Question Re: Ban New Years fireworks?

I still think it's really interesting that the poll closed in a tie.
Coincidence???
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  #138  
Old January 24th, 2009, 06:17 AM
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Thumbs down Re: Ban New Years fireworks?

"You know whoever introduce a bill would not be re-elected again," said Li.
"I think the people would be very upset and hate that individual that introduce the bill."

Does that sound like "Political Blackmail" to anyone else?
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  #139  
Old January 24th, 2009, 11:11 AM
Paul Valenti Paul Valenti is offline
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Default Re: Ban New Years fireworks?

Amati

I admire your persistence. I would only say that judging by the level of participation in the use of fireworks, you’re position seems hard to sustain. If there were as much opposition to the use of fireworks as you seem to believe there is – why is there so much fireworks use by so many people?

Barry’s note that, “Owing to the threats of terrorism. Fireworks have been banned in Ireland. The UK and the rest of Europe will be soon to follow.” Really hits a sore spot – I, for one, am sick and tired of seeing the “terrorist” boogeyman raised as a justification for every kind of restriction of individual rights, and I am appalled that so many people seem OK with that. Indeed, the “the threats of terrorism,” crap is what was used to justify the passage of the “Patriot Act” that makes it possible for mothers who argued with stewardesses about disciplining children to be arrested – AS FELONS no less – and for people who get drunk on airplanes to be imprisoned – getting on drunk on an airplane may be stupid, but it should not be a felony. God, please protect me from my government and from reactionary airline agents who disapprove of my behavior, attitude or the kinds of clothes I – or a young woman – happens to be wearing. Why not terrorism dress-code too?

And, finally, to Menehune Man, No, it doesn't sound like political blackmail, it sounds like a pretty accurate assessment of what the reaction to bill like that would be.
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  #140  
Old January 24th, 2009, 03:53 PM
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Default Re: Ban New Years fireworks?

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Originally Posted by Amati View Post
I stand by my statement that many would support a ban, there are numerous comments in this thread in support of a fireworks ban. Is there enough support in the community and legislature to bring about a new law? Maybe, maybe not.
There may be enough support to pass a law, but I think there's enough support for fireworks that it would be as effective as our current ban on aerials.

I'm more interested in amending our current law so that it can be enforced.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Menehune Man View Post
"You know whoever introduce a bill would not be re-elected again," said Li.
"I think the people would be very upset and hate that individual that introduce the bill."

Does that sound like "Political Blackmail" to anyone else?
It does. It's also a fair assessment of the feelings it would generate.

But help me out here. I have a short attention span. When was the last time in Hawaii that someone didn't get reelected over a single issue? People get mad, stamp their feet, but short of a criminal conviction, they keep getting reelected. As long as the person in question isn't up for election this year, I think it's an empty threat.
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  #141  
Old January 24th, 2009, 04:08 PM
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Default Re: Ban New Years fireworks?

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Originally Posted by Menehune Man View Post
I still think it's really interesting that the poll closed in a tie.
Coincidence???
I wouldn't put too much stock into this poll, it was only open for 3 days, I don't think that is enough time for a poll. And if you check the responses between the time the thread had started (12/30/08) to when the poll closed (1/1/09) there were 10 users that responed to the thread but did not vote on the poll plus there were 15 additional users who add to this thread after the poll closed.
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  #142  
Old January 26th, 2009, 01:27 AM
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Default Re: Ban New Years fireworks?

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Originally Posted by Paul Valenti View Post
Amati
I admire your persistence. I would only say that judging by the level of participation in the use of fireworks, you’re position seems hard to sustain. If there were as much opposition to the use of fireworks as you seem to believe there is – why is there so much fireworks use by so many people.
Are you referring to the position that there has been support expressed in postings by other HTers for a ban? Reread the entire thread, support is there. (And yes, I know that there has also been support to keep fireworks.) By the way, I think you'd have to look pretty hard to find my personal opinion, I do not think it has been stated.

Quote:
Originally Posted by helen View Post
I wouldn't put too much stock into this poll, it was only open for 3 days, I don't think that is enough time for a poll. And if you check the responses between the time the thread had started (12/30/08) to when the poll closed (1/1/09) there were 10 users that responed to the thread but did not vote on the poll plus there were 15 additional users who add to this thread after the poll closed.
I had not idea when I started the poll that there'd still be discussion weeks later. Live and learn, which is what I'm still doing on HT, especially with polls.
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Last edited by Amati; January 26th, 2009 at 01:31 AM.
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  #143  
Old January 26th, 2009, 04:52 PM
Paul Valenti Paul Valenti is offline
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Default Re: Ban New Years fireworks?

Amati

I too am surprised that the discussion has gone on so long - in the end, I think the people are divided. One can argue the point either way - as we have - and still wind up without resolution. Eventually, there will be a law passed and enforced, or there won't be - or another law will be passed that can't be, or isn't enforced. Regardless, I wouldn't count on an end to fireworks anytime soon.

Paul
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  #144  
Old January 26th, 2009, 08:58 PM
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Default Re: Ban New Years fireworks?

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Eventually, there will be a law passed and enforced, or there won't be - or another law will be passed that can't be, or isn't enforced.
Paul
I see the topic is already under consideration by legislators. Let's see if there is a bill introduced, and if so, how many HTers send in their opinions (testimony) for or against.

How many HTers are just "talkers", and how many are actually "doers"? That could be an interesting thread, if there is a bill introduced this session on a subject that grabs our attention.
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  #145  
Old January 27th, 2009, 03:28 AM
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Default Re: Ban New Years fireworks?

I don't remember what I've posted thus far so excuse me if this is a repeat, but I'm against passing any more fireworks laws unless the police chief can provide a convincing explanation as to why it would be better enforced than what we have now.
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  #146  
Old January 27th, 2009, 04:39 AM
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Default Re: Ban New Years fireworks?

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I'm against passing any more fireworks laws unless the police chief can provide a convincing explanation as to why it would be better enforced than what we have now.
Perhaps he'd give the analogy that it is hard to catch all the speeders on the roadways, but if driving were completely banned, then a speeder would stand out more and be easier to catch.

Using that logic, it is hard to catch the illegal firework users, but if fireworks were not allowed at all, then the users would stand out more and be easier to catch.

[NO I'M NOT saying to ban driving, I'm just thinking of what the chief might say to GeckoGeek]
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  #147  
Old January 27th, 2009, 12:50 PM
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Default Re: Ban New Years fireworks?

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Using that logic, it is hard to catch the illegal firework users, but if fireworks were not allowed at all, then the users would stand out more and be easier to catch.
I'd need details on why that's the case. My "hot button" is the aerials. I think it's pretty easy to separate aerials vs the legal stuff.

To go back to your analogy, he may not catch all the speeders, but he should have a nice fist-full of tickets to show he's been doing something. Other then nabbing a couple of sellers I haven't seen any reports that he's arrested a single user.

I think we're better off fine-tuning the existing law so that he can get some arrests and convictions before we try to ban it all. Past efforts at restricting things have only led to making things worse, so I think I have a valid fear of "the prohibition" effect.
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  #148  
Old January 27th, 2009, 07:51 PM
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Default Re: Ban New Years fireworks?

Yes, it will be interesting to see if a bill is introduced, to see if it is a serious bill, and to see if it has a realistic chance of passage. Depending upon what they try to do in the way of regulation, I will certainly be letting the legislators what I think, even if carries no weight since I cannot vote in Hawaii.
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  #149  
Old February 14th, 2009, 06:51 PM
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Lightbulb Re: Ban New Years fireworks?

Quote:
Originally Posted by GeckoGeek View Post
To go back to your analogy, he may not catch all the speeders, but he should have a nice fist-full of tickets to show he's been doing something. Other then nabbing a couple of sellers I haven't seen any reports that he's arrested a single user.
Again, Ron Whitfield’s point is made, in even more illustrative details. I had to laugh at Amati when he said:
Quote:
I'm not so sure about that, after following this thread. Seems like many support a ban.
Many? I agree with Valenti. The only thing this thread illustrates is how divided people are when it comes to fireworks. But putting how I feel about it aside for a moment, I just have to restate the obvious Amati, because it just doesn’t seem to sink in: a law is meaningless, unless it can be enforced. You seem to believe that a total ban will make it easier to spot “violators.” The unintended (or perhaps intended, based on how corrupt you believe our government is) consequence of such a ban, is that black market dealers (and buyers) would proliferate faster than during Prohibition. We all know how effectively that was enforced.
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  #150  
Old February 15th, 2009, 01:53 AM
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Default Re: Ban New Years fireworks?

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But putting how I feel about it aside for a moment, I just have to restate the obvious Amati, because it just doesn’t seem to sink in: a law is meaningless, unless it can be enforced. You seem to believe that a total ban will make it easier to spot “violators.” The unintended (or perhaps intended, based on how corrupt you believe our government is) consequence of such a ban, is that black market dealers (and buyers) would proliferate faster than during Prohibition. We all know how effectively that was enforced.
Well, TuNnl, I guess if there would be some way to set up hidden private indoor clubs that set off fireworks (which is what happened during prohibition, only it was serving alcohol in that case), then more power to those who'd stay indoors to watch the fireworks displays going off. YIKES!
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