GITMO Closing?

[timkona]

You gotta love an idea that has no plan behind it. We got a regular prison over there, with all the normal stuff, except, of course, 'rights', and over 200 dudes who jay-walked in front of the US Military one day.

Let's put them all in apartments in Bed-Sty, NY, Commons, Chi-town, or Richmond, CA. We could set them up with clothing, food, some furniture, and a little walkinaround cash. Don't forget the weekly meetings with a high paid psychologist so they can 'vent'.

Or we could set up a giant paintball game somewhere.

I'm not sure.

What you think?

[scrivener]

If they did something, put them on trial. If they didn't, let them go.

[Ron Whitfield]

We've already released more than 500, of what Bush called "the worst of the worst", back into the world, from a total count of detainees that exceeds one thousand over the last few years.
We've also got to absorb the bodies from the many 'secret cells' (beyond Gitmo...) that are now being ordered closed.
Of all these super bad men, only 12 have been brought up on charges. All charges are of war crimes, nothing of terrorism.

This whole disastrous saga has been another crowning achievement of futility that went awry..., topped only by the numerous other unneccessary and wounding calamities that are now known as The Bush Years.

[timkona]

So what do we do Ron?

[Ron Whitfield]

Obama has already suggested the theme of an International Prison. What that all entails and could lead to pro and con will be determined. But even that is too big hat.

We should never have allowed Bush to establish seperate courts and laws outside of exisiting laws or have overreaching authoritys. The only need for any black holes in our contry's legal and moral fabric was by those wishing to abide by their own laws that they made up on the fly, during so-called extrordinary moments.

We can maintain the proper proceedures for the remaining detainees in our civil courtrooms and at the same time show the world that openness and fairness has a place at the table again.

[timkona]

So, ummmm, welll, I read your post twice. Then I reread it again. Just to make sure I understood.

Please clarify. What do we do? Where do they go? I can be slow at times. Please be patient with me.

[Ron Whitfield]

The total number of prisoners can be easily held at any quite suitable facilities, ...it's not a problem. The 12 worst of the worst of the worst, and already charged can be tried properly in most of today's big city courtrooms. Again, not a problem.

This whole overblown scenerio of 'new legal ground / grey area circumstances / danger-scary' is an old charade by the Bushies to avoid laws and the consequences of avoiding laws, that is now being shown the door in lieu of common courtesy/sense.

[escondido100]

the only people celebrating the closure of gitmo are the terrorists that may end up there someday if it were to stay open.......oh yeah and the liberals.

[scrivener]

Originally Posted by escondido100

the only people celebrating the closure of gitmo are the terrorists that may end up there someday if it were to stay open.......oh yeah and the liberals.

You are going to have to amend this statement, because I am neither a terrorist nor—as my posts on HT and my voting record will confirm—a liberal. Speaking in absolutes is a good way to be wrong.

[Composite 2992]

Turn the situation around and see how it looks:

You get taken prisoner in a foreign country because you're an American carrying a camera and therefore suspected of spying.

You're not charged with anything. You get tortured to force a confession. Your painful screams of innocence is declared a lie. You're put into solitary confinement. You're not allowed to communicate with anyone. No due process. No access to legal representation. The food you're given is repulsive -- insect larvae, goat anuses and a tough bread-like substance made from grass seeds. No idea of when the imprisonment might end.

So is Guantanamo Bay acceptable? Only if you're willing to face similar treatment elsewhere can you honestly say "yes". The United States of America is supposed to set the standard for justice. Is this the gold standard we want to set for the rest of the world? In so, you'd better start thinking real hard about being a tourist anywhere outside of our borders.

By the way, Australian aboriginies have a staple food made from grass seeds. And there are cultures that think insect larvae and goat anuses are delicacies (each animal has only ONE!). So while we might THINK we're feeding some of these detainees well, they might not agree at all.

Obama is thinking beyond the needs of the moment. He's basing his decisions upon fundamental principles of justice. The Constitution was authored with that type of thinking.

Some of our worst moments came about when some of those basic principles were set aside for the sake of expediency. Executive Order 9099 was a recent one.

[Composite 2992]

Where to send the current group of suspects: Alcatraz.

Remodeling the old prison can be considered part of the economic stimulus plan. Hire a lot of steel workers and masons to bring it back to its former glory with an accurate historical restoration project.

After the prisoners are processed and the prison is no longer needed, bring back the tourists so they can see what it all used to look like in its heyday.

[Random]

Originally Posted by Composite 2992

Obama is thinking beyond the needs of the moment. He's basing his decisions upon fundamental principles of justice. The Constitution was authored with that type of thinking.

Oh, yeah. After the Colonists realize they cannot beat the British Army with standard rules of battle engagement, and adopted guerilla warfare.

[Amati]

Originally Posted by Composite 2992

Where to send the current group of suspects: Alcatraz.

Remodeling the old prison can be considered part of the economic stimulus plan. Hire a lot of steel workers and masons to bring it back to its former glory with an accurate historical restoration project.

After the prisoners are processed and the prison is no longer needed, bring back the tourists so they can see what it all used to look like in its heyday.

That would be quite a project. I think the walls are so softened by exposure to salt air, you could dig a hole through them with a spoon.

[tutusue]

In Leno's monologue last night he mentioned that should the new administration wish to close Gitmo sooner they should turn it into a bank!

[Random]

Originally Posted by tutusue

In Leno's monologue last night he mentioned that should the new administration wish to close Gitmo sooner they should turn it into a bank!

Blood Bank? Body Bank? Isn't that what Abu Ghraib is for?

Yes, I have a very dark sense of humor.

[Composite 2992]

Originally Posted by Random

Oh, yeah. After the Colonists realize they cannot beat the British Army with standard rules of battle engagement, and adopted guerilla warfare.

Not to mention the help they got from a major storm that nearly wiped out the Brits as they advanced toward Washington!

Notice that terrorists are using the same guerilla tactics against Americans that the Americans used against the Brits?

[Random]

Originally Posted by timkona

What you think?

Any anti-war protester want to put them up?

Isn't that what Obama talked about doing something for the community, instead of whining and make ridiculous near-billboard-size signs on safe ground?

[timkona]

Good thinking Random. We make it a raffle. 200 bad guys. Millions of Americans who voted for Ol' Bammy. Chances are very low that you end up with a new roommate. But hey, if you do, think of the opportunity to help reform a terrorist by showing them all the love you have in your heart.

This is a good idea. Spreads them out far and wide. And gives them role models to learn from.

What say Obama voters? Ready to help?

[cyleet99]

Well.

I think the House and Senate have spoken; and no other country is willing to take the terrorists.

How's 90-6 grab you?

American dollars are too busy funding every other idea of this new administration; Gitmo falls too far down the list.

[Ron Whitfield]

Dealing properly with Gitmo should be a priority for this admin, one of many. That they havn't shut the embarrassment down and dealt with it already is not acceptable. And of course you have the typical baloney republican blab ala Thune spouting 'what Americans want'. He, like so many before him, speaks for one American, himself, at best.
I would happily have the whole bunch of remaining detainees housed correctly anywhere on Oahu, my back door. It's not a major problem to simply incarerate even the worst of the worst, and if it suddenly is, then we have even worse problems than thought.

Obama has done some excellant things so far, but has grossly failed on many of the most important travesties stemming from the previous bunch that he should have have taken care of immediately.

[AlohaKine]

So can they live down the street from me? I guess Gitmo just isn't good enough for these "living treasures".

[Ron Whitfield]

Why so far away? What's wrong with next door, or in your yard?

And no, a sad joke on the US like Bush's stalag isn't good enuf for anybody, especially Americans.

[Leo Lakio]

Originally Posted by Ron Whitfield

And of course you have the typical baloney republican blab ala Thune spouting 'what Americans want'.

If only the GOP weren't in control of Congress...


...oh wait. Apparently the Dems who ARE in control were too chicken to go along with their president. *sigh* - the Democrats really are the party of missed opportunities.

[cynsaligia]

a 460 bed prison in hardin, montana wants em.

i'd cut & paste a link from one of the area's april newspaper issues, but i recently and reluctantly switched from my beloved blackberry to an iphone (from which i am posting) and for whatever incomprehensible reason, apple did not see fit to allow that very basic ability. sigh.

[Frankie's Market]

Here is Dan Inouye's official statement re: his amendment that passed and received bi-partisan support.

http://inouye.senate.gov/09pr/20090520pr01.html

“Despite some of the rhetoric on this issue, this amendment is not a referendum on closing the Guantanamo Bay prison,” Senate Appropriations Chairman Daniel K. Inouye said today. “Instead, it should serve as a reality check since, at this time, the Administration has not yet forwarded a coherent plan for closing the prison.”

**********************

“But let me be clear. We need to close the Guantanamo prison. Yes, it is a fine facility. I, too, have visited the site. Yes, the detainees are being well cared for. Our servicemen and servicewomen are doing great work. But the fact of the matter is Guantanamo is a symbol of the wrongdoings which have occurred, and we must eliminate that connection.

**********************

“Many of my colleagues are justifiably concerned about how the terrorists at Guantanamo will be handled. They deserve answers, but so, too, we must begin planning to close the prison. That work needs to begin soon for the good of our nation and the men and women still serving in harm’s way. It is up to the Administration to fashion a plan which can win the support of the American people and its congressional representatives. As we approach the Fiscal Year 2010 budget, this will be a key element of our continued review of this matter.”