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Hawai'i Superferry - Chapter 3

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  • Re: Hawai'i Superferry - Chapter 3

    I'm not entirely hopeful anything short than legal action will stop this.
    The wheels are already moving. On top of that, our greatly intelligent
    HDOT habor administrators concocted a contract with HSF that mandates
    that the HDOT pay 18,000 a day if the harbor is not ready for service.
    Check out my blog on Kona issues :
    The Kona Blog

    Comment


    • Re: Hawai'i Superferry - Chapter 3

      Maybe the DOT and the Superferry think it's too late to stop plans for Maui service next year, but the people on Maui are hopping mad...it also didn't help Superferry to have Young Bros holding separate meetings about the impact of Superferry on Young Bros ability to ship smaller than container loads. And there's that small matter of an $18k/day penalty that the State has to cough up if the dock at Kahului isn't completed on time...

      "...Hawaii Superferry officials sailed into Maui this week and found themselves caught in the eye of the storm.

      During three long meetings that finally broke the company’s extended silence with the general public, Maui opponents of the ambitious project tore apart nearly every aspect of the plans that they had heard about – and raised questions about the plans still being held back.

      Not a single person spoke in favor of Superferry. In fact, most were ready to mutiny.

      “Shame on you,” railed Native Hawaiian leader Leslie Kuloloio, directing his comments to leaders of both the state Department of Transportation and Superferry. “I’m so tired of this secrecy. This might involve more players than we even know about. I’m so frustrated.

      . . . This is the lousiest damn job I ever did see.”

      Kuloloio was part of the largest crowd of the week, where

      more than 100 mostly angry residents turned the Lihikai Elementary cafeteria into a rally Thursday night, complete with ovations for every speaker, catcalls for Superferry executives and pleas for Maui to follow the lead of Molokai activists who stopped a cruise ship from mooring off Kaunakakai.

      “We bless you on Molokai for standing up to the cruise ships,” said flower grower Lloyd Fischel. “This (Superferry) is going to change Maui in a big way and we have to stand up, too.”

      Whether the public outcry will make a difference is uncertain. State Deputy Transportation Director Barry Fukunaga was asked by The Maui News if the state would consider putting a hold on Superferry until issues had been resolved.

      “Whether we would do that or not is doubtful, but that’s not to say we can’t work on those areas of concern,” said Fukunaga...."

      "...Schedules will also change. Because traffic studies show that lunch hour creates some of the most crowded conditions at the intersection of Kaahumanu and Puunene avenues, O’Halloran said adjustments have been made. Under the new timetable, the ferry will arrive in Kahului at 9:30 a.m., leave for Honolulu at 10:30 a.m. and arrive on Oahu at 1:30 p.m. The vessel departs for Kahului at 6:30 a.m. the next day.

      That new schedule, however, might not appeal to the farmers and merchants who Superferry officials have hoped would use the carrier to drive their truckloads of goods to Oahu.

      Shipping by Superferry could be both cheaper and quicker than sending the products via Young Brothers. But with the planned schedule, anyone who goes to Oahu would have to spend the night.

      Dick Mayer, retired economics professor at Maui Community College, questioned the value of the low fares claimed by the Superferry. Crunching numbers, Mayer showed it would cost more for a family of four and a baby to travel with their personal van to Oahu or the Big Island than it would to fly and rent a similar vehicle. Mayer also reminded the Lihikai crowd that the low fares widely touted by Superferry would only be good between Oahu and a Neighbor Island. Anyone from Maui, Kauai or the Big Island wanting to visit another Neighbor Island would pay double – and double for their vehicles.

      “This is not a bargain form of travel,” said Mayer, who accused Superferry officials of “outright deception.”..."


      Miulang
      "Americans believe in three freedoms. Freedom of speech; freedom of religion; and the freedom to deny the other two to folks they don`t like.” --Mark Twain

      Comment


      • Re: Hawai'i Superferry - Chapter 3

        Poinography
        had a good take on the meetings too . I completely agree with his
        assessments also.
        Check out my blog on Kona issues :
        The Kona Blog

        Comment


        • Re: Hawai'i Superferry - Chapter 3

          LIKE I SAID B-4, GO 4 THE BUCK`S, NEVA MINE DA CIRCUMSTANCES!!!!!

          All hush, hush, neva mind the outcome, the traffic impact, the pest coming and going to other Islands.... This was all rush, rush rush, not enough planning..... Impact on small businesses on Molokai and Maui using Y.B.

          Mo BETTA PLAN BETTA, CAN!!!!!!!!!
          OGGBOY
          bin dea-dunn dat.

          Comment


          • Re: Hawai'i Superferry - Chapter 3

            Sadly, the Superferry will pit Honolulu against the Neighbor Islands once again. If Young Bros is unable to ship smaller than container sized loads to the outer islands and small business owners have to use freight forwarders to handle their goods, then the cost of living for those on the Neighbor Islands will definitely go up. No one is yet willing to say by exactly how much, but everytime you add another hand to the till, the price will go up.

            The Superferry will be a much better deal for people living on Oahu who want to use it to visit the Neighbor Islands. Those estimated prices are for passage originating in Honolulu. According to one of the experts at one of the Maui Community meetings a couple of weeks ago, any Neighbor Island people wanting to visit another island will pay double what it would cost a person travelling from Honolulu.

            "...Young Brothers has subsidized the shipping of the smaller loads for years, letting the profits from other parts of their business cover the losses.

            "If Young Brothers would raise the price (of smaller loads) to be profitable or just break even, I’m not sure it would be that much cheaper than what other companies would offer," he said.

            Hong said the firm has continued to offer the pallet-sized shipping across Hawaii, even as that part of the operation sank into the red, because they know how much the public depends on it. The smaller loads make up about a fourth of the cargo business.

            "We’ve kept this service for so long because it’s been so much a part of Hawaii," he said. "If we had unlimited harbor resources, we could probably continue with moderate rate increases, but we don’t have that anymore. Harbor resources are one of our scarcest commodities."..."



            Miulang
            "Americans believe in three freedoms. Freedom of speech; freedom of religion; and the freedom to deny the other two to folks they don`t like.” --Mark Twain

            Comment


            • Re: Hawai'i Superferry - Chapter 3

              Originally posted by Miulang
              Sadly, the Superferry will pit Honolulu against the Neighbor Islands once again. If Young Bros is unable to ship smaller than container sized loads to the outer islands and small business owners have to use freight forwarders to handle their goods, then the cost of living for those on the Neighbor Islands will definitely go up.
              Young Brothers has had a MONOPOLY on interisland shipping for about 60 years, haven't they? Taking away that monopoly may well lower prices.

              The Superferry will be a much better deal for people living on Oahu who want to use it to visit the Neighbor Islands. Those estimated prices are for passage originating in Honolulu. According to one of the experts at one of the Maui Community meetings a couple of weeks ago, any Neighbor Island people wanting to visit another island will pay double what it would cost a person travelling from Honolulu.
              Miulang, be extremely careful what you claim as fact, and look up the definitions of libel and slander. I don't know who your so-called "expert" is, but see the Fares page of the SuperFerry website at this link and also see their full 24-page tariff report filed with the Public Utilities Commission at this link. Now, where does it show anything about neighbor island folks paying double????????


              "...Young Brothers has subsidized the shipping of the smaller loads for years, letting the profits from other parts of their business cover the losses.
              Hong said the firm has continued to offer the pallet-sized shipping across Hawaii, even as that part of the operation sank into the red, because they know how much the public depends on it."
              Oh PLEASE. That makes Young Brothers sound like some kind of charitable foundation whose only concern is for the public. Gee, wanna guess how many millions of dollars they profit every year, especially given their 60-year monopoly?


              I've said here several times that I too have some concerns about the SuperFerry, but I've also said several times that we have to be FAIR. Attacks based on unsubstantiated rumors of an unnamed "expert" is shameful.
              Last edited by LikaNui; July 3, 2006, 12:01 PM.
              .
              .

              That's my story, and I'm sticking to it.

              Comment


              • Re: Hawai'i Superferry - Chapter 3

                Originally posted by LikaNui
                I've said here several times that I too have some concerns about the SuperFerry, but I've also said several times that we have to be FAIR. Attacks based on unsubstantiated rumors of an unnamed "expert" is shameful.
                The "expert" I cited is Dick Mayer, a retired economics professor at MCC (see the quote in #122 from the Maui News).

                "...Dick Mayer, retired economics professor at Maui Community College, questioned the value of the low fares claimed by the Superferry. Crunching numbers, Mayer showed it would cost more for a family of four and a baby to travel with their personal van to Oahu or the Big Island than it would to fly and rent a similar vehicle. Mayer also reminded the Lihikai crowd that the low fares widely touted by Superferry would only be good between Oahu and a Neighbor Island. Anyone from Maui, Kauai or the Big Island wanting to visit another Neighbor Island would pay double – and double for their vehicles."

                Poinography and Konaguy also commented on the same testimony, too.

                Miulang

                P.S. I'm not saying that YB wasn't a monopoly; only that the additional cost of either having to rent a whole container for a smaller load, or going with a freight consolidator will cost the small business people more money because they will have to get their goods at a location away from the harbor. Even with the competition from the freight forwarders and even if the PUC denied Young Bros application to stop smaller shipments, YB doesn't think the price would be any lower from anyone else that might enter the market to provide that service.
                Last edited by Miulang; July 3, 2006, 12:15 PM.
                "Americans believe in three freedoms. Freedom of speech; freedom of religion; and the freedom to deny the other two to folks they don`t like.” --Mark Twain

                Comment


                • Re: Hawai'i Superferry - Chapter 3

                  Originally posted by Miulang
                  "Mayer also reminded the Lihikai crowd that the low fares widely touted by Superferry would only be good between Oahu and a Neighbor Island. Anyone from Maui, Kauai or the Big Island wanting to visit another Neighbor Island would pay double – and double for their vehicles."
                  And I say again, where are the facts that substantiate that claim? I gave two links with the actual tariff documents. Please review them and then show us where Mayer's claim is substantiated.
                  I sure couldn't find it.
                  Gosh, those pesky little facts, eh?


                  And why is it that this claim never came up until now???
                  Last edited by LikaNui; July 3, 2006, 12:49 PM.
                  .
                  .

                  That's my story, and I'm sticking to it.

                  Comment


                  • Re: Hawai'i Superferry - Chapter 3

                    Originally posted by LikaNui
                    And I say again, where are the facts that substantiate that claim? I gave two links with the actual tariff documents. Please review them and then show us where Mayer's claim is substantiated.
                    I sure couldn't find it.
                    Gosh, those pesky little facts, eh?


                    And why is it that this claim never came up until now???
                    K den. I go see if I can track da buggah down and ask him if he can recreate his testimony he provided at the hearing. Don't ask me why this never came up before, because I don't know da ansa to dat one. I think everybody (including YB) realizes that this Superferry thing is a done deal because Lingle and the DOT want it to happen (as does the DoD) and the only requirement that the Legislature put on releasing the $20 million to Superferry was that they hold meetings, not that anything that was discussed in the meetings would change the decision. And with that stupid $18k/diem penalty that will be imposed on the State if Kahului isn't ready by next year, I seriously doubt anything will deter them from putting up some jerry rigged dock (a barge?!at the end of the pier? puhleese!) and a tent and a bank of PortaPotties to use as a passenger waiting area by then.

                    But give me a couple of weeks and let me see if I can track Prof. Mayer down. I'm sure he wouldn't have said what he did if he wasn't sure of his facts.

                    Miulang

                    P.S. and since this appears to be a "done deal", then I say let Superferry start their runs and see they how long they can stay afloat (pun intended) before they run crying back to the State Legislature saying they need a subsidy in order to keep solvent...or before the DoD comandeers the boats so they can ship their armament more cheaply between Oahu and Pohakuloa.

                    P.P.S. Lika: I found an email address for Prof. Mayer and just sent him an email requesting that he either come directly to this thread to post his method of calculating the cost of a ferry ride for a family of 4 and where he determined it would cost Neighbor Island people more to ride Superferry than Oahu residents, or he will email a reply back to me and I will copy and paste it here...thank god for the Internet!
                    Last edited by Miulang; July 3, 2006, 01:50 PM.
                    "Americans believe in three freedoms. Freedom of speech; freedom of religion; and the freedom to deny the other two to folks they don`t like.” --Mark Twain

                    Comment


                    • Re: Hawai'i Superferry - Chapter 3

                      Thanks, Miulang. I'm looking forward to his response.
                      Did you get a chance to review those two tariff pages? And if so, did you see anything that said it would be doubly expensive for neighbor island residents?
                      .
                      .

                      That's my story, and I'm sticking to it.

                      Comment


                      • Re: Hawai'i Superferry - Chapter 3

                        That "doubly expensive" claim is obviously based on a scenario where a neighbor island resident wants to travel to an island other than Oahu. Such a traveler would need to buy two fares: a round trip to Oahu and a round trip to continue on to their destination.

                        Superferry has not announced direct Maui-Hawaii, Hawaii-Kauai, or Kauai-Maui routes.

                        Comment


                        • Re: Hawai'i Superferry - Chapter 3

                          Originally posted by poinographer
                          That "doubly expensive" claim is obviously based on a scenario where a neighbor island resident wants to travel to an island other than Oahu. Such a traveler would need to buy two fares: a round trip to Oahu and a round trip to continue on to their destination.

                          Superferry has not announced direct Maui-Hawaii, Hawaii-Kauai, or Kauai-Maui routes.
                          Hmmmm...when it's put THAT way, it really makes it a bum deal for the Neighbor Island folks who don't want to go to Honolulu, doesn't it, both in terms of the cost of the fare and the amount of time involved getting on and off the ferry between say Maui--->Kauai (like probably an overnight stay in Honolulu)?

                          Miulang
                          "Americans believe in three freedoms. Freedom of speech; freedom of religion; and the freedom to deny the other two to folks they don`t like.” --Mark Twain

                          Comment


                          • Re: Hawai'i Superferry - Chapter 3

                            Exactly what I meant in my blog post on the topic. They will spend the better part of day to make the trip, and could even have to spend a night in HNL, which pretty much defies the whole "weekend getaway" scenario.

                            Comment


                            • Re: Hawai'i Superferry - Chapter 3

                              When I last checked, Superferry was not promoting Maui to Kauai segments or Kauai to Big Island trips. Seems like all trips come and go to and from each island from Oahu, and that's it. They will only have one ship and 2 if the service takes off.

                              Neighbor islanders who are unfortunate enough to already live on those islands who have to make a connecting flight via Honolulu to another island of their choosing, have to as I understand it pay for each segment... i.e. Hilo to HNL ($79) and HNL to LIH ($79) or even worse, back to OGG from HNL at $79. Aloha Airlines recently announced that they are going to reinstate direct flights to and from Maui to Kauai and OGG to KOA, which I assume will forgoe those connecting fees. I think Island Air and Pacific Wings already fly some of those non-connect to HNL routes.

                              This morning on the Rick Hamada Show (KHVH), Rod Haraga who is a regular Monday morning guest stated that Young Bros. change to carrying only full containers was a plan they were going to implement before Superferry was announced. Superferry's arrival in the islands next year will only speed up that process. And it is not only Maui. Young Bros. will also require this of Kauai and Big Island shippers. Haraga was saying that Molokai got a break from that because there are no freight consolidation companies on that island.

                              Superferry will give businesses another shipping option. They can simply load their vehicle on the ferry and ship goods out on the ferry if they don't want to use Young Bros. It is another option.
                              I'm still here. Are you?

                              Comment


                              • Re: Hawai'i Superferry - Chapter 3

                                OK, so here's the current rate schedule. I was looking at the "a la carte" section (down below). Interesting that if you have a station wagon and can cram that surfboard into your car that it won't cost you more. But if you have a small car like a Ford Focus and need to use one of their racks, it'll cost you $20-25 more each way. And if you want to take Fido or Fluffy holoholo with you, you either keep him in the car with you for free or put him in a kennel that will cost you $30-40 more. I don't understand why a canoe fastened on your car is free, but a bike cannot be put on a bike rack attached to your car and have it not be charged? I'm assuming by "canoe" they mean kayak and not a canoe canoe?

                                I think the fares are going to need some additional fine tuning.

                                Miulang

                                P.S. Even though YB might have been planning to eliminate smaller than container sized loads (and yes, might even be using the brouhaha of the Superferry as their excuse to pull it off ), why did the DOT put their application on hold for further study? Why didn't they just tell YB it was OK to stop shipping less than container loads to get YB out of their hair? Sounds like maybe the State wants its cake and be able to eat it too.
                                Last edited by Miulang; July 3, 2006, 08:11 PM.
                                "Americans believe in three freedoms. Freedom of speech; freedom of religion; and the freedom to deny the other two to folks they don`t like.” --Mark Twain

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