Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Aloha Air files bankruptcy, again

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #31
    Re: Aloha Air files bankruptcy, again

    Originally posted by joshuatree View Post
    All the more reason to cheer for a stronger Hawaiian and Island Air because that will translate to more hiring in those respective companies.
    Island Air I will cheer.

    Hawaiian? All they have to do is resume flight service to/from Moloka'i and I will consider forgiving them.

    And yes, I too remember Mahalo Air.

    Would it be bad to cap jet fuel?
    Beijing 8-08-08 to 8-24-08

    Tiananmen Square 4-15-89 to 6-04-89

    Comment


    • #32
      Re: Aloha Air files bankruptcy, again

      Aloha Airlines unions and employees are staging a rally today at the State Capitol starting at around 3PM. They are coming to ask for a state bailout.

      On another note, a little birdy tells me HSF is out of drydock.
      I'm still here. Are you?

      Comment


      • #33
        Re: Aloha Air files bankruptcy, again

        Originally posted by craigwatanabe View Post
        And to think I thought YB was a Local company all this time
        Originally posted by joshuatree View Post
        Yeah, the whole YB being non local is very surprising.
        It surprises me that you folks didn't know this, especially with all the discussions of YB in the heated HSF threads. I expected at least one mention in there that YB has had a Seattle-based owner since 2000, Saltchuk Resources.

        Where's aloha-anon? I'd like to read his take on the current situation. He's been m.i.a. since the Sugar Bowl.

        Comment


        • #34
          Re: Aloha Air files bankruptcy, again

          Originally posted by Leo Lakio View Post
          It surprises me that you folks didn't know this, especially with all the discussions of YB in the heated HSF threads. I expected at least one mention in there that YB has had a Seattle-based owner since 2000, Saltchuk Resources.

          Where's aloha-anon? I'd like to read his take on the current situation. He's been m.i.a. since the Sugar Bowl.
          I meant to surprise you

          Maybe aloha-anon took the UH loss at the Sugar Bowl too hard and is in seclusion. That was a heartbreaker.
          Life is what you make of it...so please read the instructions carefully.

          Comment


          • #35
            Re: Aloha Air files bankruptcy, again

            Originally posted by mel View Post
            Aloha Airlines unions and employees are staging a rally today at the State Capitol starting at around 3PM. They are coming to ask for a state bailout.

            On another note, a little birdy tells me HSF is out of drydock.
            Despite wanting to not see 3000+ employees be out of a job, I don't support a gov't bailout. Why? Because all I see is the same Aloha management asking for more handouts. I haven't seen or heard the details but if a bailout from the gov't comes without any changes in Aloha's management roster or business plan, this is nothing more than throwing good money down the drain. It will simple delay the inevitable. I rather see the company get parted out such as the cargo operations so another company can run it right and keep the people employed. Thoughts?

            Comment


            • #36
              Re: Aloha Air files bankruptcy, again

              Originally posted by joshuatree View Post
              Despite wanting to not see 3000+ employees be out of a job, I don't support a gov't bailout. Why? Because all I see is the same Aloha management asking for more handouts. I haven't seen or heard the details but if a bailout from the gov't comes without any changes in Aloha's management roster or business plan, this is nothing more than throwing good money down the drain. It will simple delay the inevitable. I rather see the company get parted out such as the cargo operations so another company can run it right and keep the people employed. Thoughts?

              hmm. so the legislature is all gung ho to exempt one airline out of three from GET when, should that airline fail, the others can pick up the slack?

              yet the legislature laughs long and hard when a hospital (that serves a patient population that is 70% medicare/medicaid/non paying patients, compared to 50% or less in other hospitals) asks for the same thing? and they wipe away tears of laughter knowing if that hospital fails, the remaining medical organizations cannot make up the several hundred beds that will suddenly disappear, nor will they take over the only ER on the ewa plain?

              *sputters angrily*
              Last edited by cynsaligia; March 29, 2008, 10:17 AM.
              superbia (pride), avaritia (greed), luxuria (lust), invidia (envy), gula (gluttony), ira (wrath) & acedia (sloth)--the seven deadly sins.

              "when you wake up in the morning, tell yourself: the people i deal with today will be meddling, ungrateful, arrogant, dishonest, jealous, and surly..."--meditations, marcus aurelius (make sure you read the rest of the passage, ya lazy wankers!)

              nothing humiliates like the truth.--me, in conversation w/mixedplatebroker re 3rd party, 2009-11-11, 1213

              Comment


              • #37
                Re: Aloha Air files bankruptcy, again

                Allows DBEDT to guarantee up to 90% of the principal balance of a loan made by a private lending institution to a Hawaii air carrier; provided that the aggregate amount of the State's liability shall not exceed $ ______ Repealed on 06/30/2018. (HB509 SD2)
                HB509 Proposed SD2 will allow a loan guarantee to Aloha (or any other airline that flies point to point within the State of Hawaii), which I think puts the state and taxpayers at risk.

                Taxpayers should not have to foot Aloha Airlines' bill.

                Why should Aloha Airlines get special treatment from the legislature? Other Hawaii firms and small businesses with dire financial problems don't get bailouts from the legislature.

                If the legislature wants to cultivate a good business climate it would cut the GE Tax across the board and apply that to ALL Hawaii businesses.
                I'm still here. Are you?

                Comment


                • #38
                  Re: Aloha Air files bankruptcy, again

                  Originally posted by mel View Post
                  If the legislature wants to cultivate a good business climate it would cut the GE Tax across the board and apply that to ALL Hawaii businesses.
                  We know that the state will not cut the GET for all businesses in a million years. But as you say, if Hawaii wants to improve its business climate, it needs to provide a level playing field for everyone.

                  Providing a bailout for Aloha Airlines with the present state of the airline industry as it stands would be just as big a waste of taxpayer money as it was trying to keep the Hamakua Sugar Plantation running during the 1990s. There's no future for these businesses, so there's no point in keeping them alive on life support.

                  If the idea is that the politicians want to feel like they're doing something to keep the affected people employed, they would be better off spending money in job re-training programs for those who aren't absorbed by the surviving airlines.
                  This post may contain an opinion that may conflict with your opinion. Do not take it personal. Polite discussion of difference of opinion is welcome.

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Re: Aloha Air files bankruptcy, again

                    Bob "The Companies We Keep" Sigall offers an alternative:

                    Aside from philosophical arguments, there’s a very potent, practical option Aloha should pursue first: Raise the money from their stockholders, employees and their families.

                    Aloha says it creates 3,500 jobs in Hawaii. Most of those people have parents, siblings or adult children. The Aloha "Family" probably has over 10,000 members. Maybe even twice that.

                    If 5,000 of them loaned Aloha $1,000 each, that would total $5 million.
                    This is a chance for the all of the employees, stakeholders and anyone else interested to put their $$$ where their jobs are. They know the product, I think they can probably run it better than the investment company at the top did.

                    Read Bob's entire piece at this link:
                    Should the State bail out Aloha Airlines
                    I'm still here. Are you?

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Re: Aloha Air files bankruptcy, again

                      Originally posted by mel View Post
                      Bob "The Companies We Keep" Sigall offers an alternative:



                      This is a chance for the all of the employees, stakeholders and anyone else interested to put their $$$ where their jobs are. They know the product, I think they can probably run it better than the investment company at the top did.

                      Read Bob's entire piece at this link:
                      Should the State bail out Aloha Airlines
                      What a huge slap to the face of all Aloha's employees. They've already financially sacrificed when Aloha went through the last bankruptcy 3 years ago.

                      On that note, there was a rebuttal op-ed here.

                      Food for thought, there already has been precedent set with Hawaii bailing out the local airlines. In 1993, the State of Hawaii gave 14 million in loan guarantees to a bankrupt Hawaiian Airlines. In 2001, the legislature exempted Hawaiian and Aloha from paying landing fees.

                      Even Lowell Kalapa felt it was only fair that the legislature bail out Aloha. Especially since they did it previously with Hawaiian Airlines in 1993. It is only fair thing to do.

                      link

                      Lowell Kalapa, executive director of the nonprofit Tax Foundation of Hawaii Inc., said there's precedent for providing financial assistance to the airline industry.

                      "If they can bail out Hawaiian, the only fair thing to do is to bail these guys out, too," Kalapa said.

                      Kalapa added that the state provides tax credits and other incentives to high-tech and film industries, so it can provide similar breaks for the airline industry, which plays a more vital role in the state's economy.

                      Check out my blog on Kona issues :
                      The Kona Blog

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Re: Aloha Air files bankruptcy, again

                        How much is the gov't contemplating on loaning to Aloha? $14 million is nothing in 2008 dollars for an airline. They can burn that up in a month easy. So again I ask, is there any real proposal for change to Aloha's business plan? If not, just let Aloha go. And despite precedent, Hawaiian never took up that loan offer so for all practical purposes, it never happened.

                        Speaking of sacrifices, why don't management chip in instead? Notice there's an absence of criticism for these folks? Plenty for go! but they are not the only factor to Aloha's demise.

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Re: Aloha Air files bankruptcy, again

                          Originally posted by Konaguy View Post
                          Lowell Kalapa, executive director of the nonprofit Tax Foundation of Hawaii Inc., said there's precedent for providing financial assistance to the airline industry.

                          "If they can bail out Hawaiian, the only fair thing to do is to bail these guys out, too," Kalapa said.

                          Kalapa added that the state provides tax credits and other incentives to high-tech and film industries, so it can provide similar breaks for the airline industry, which plays a more vital role in the state's economy.
                          Normally, I give a lot of weight to Lowell's opinions and analysis. But here's where I think he strikes out badly on this issue.

                          First of all, Lowell himself admits that he opposed the 1993 proposal for the state to guarantee any loan to Hawaiian Air. Rationalizing that Aloha should get the same treatment strictly out of a sense of fairness is like saying that "two wrongs do make a right." Very weak argument that Lowell puts forward here.

                          Also, Lowell's reasoning that the Hawaiian Airlines 1993 situation should be applicable today overlooks (or willingly ignores, take your pick) the elephant in the room that wasn't there 15 years ago. That elephant, of course, is Mesa/go! So we're not facing a monopoly situation, like in '93 when there were only 2 major players in the interisland market.

                          Bob Sigall's proposal to have Aloha Air's employees and ohana front their money to the company only delays the inevitable if no solid, realistic plan can be put forward to make the company profitable in the long run. At worst, his idea is a disservice to those folks, giving them false hope and ultimately, will likely be a waste of their hard-earned money when the company does fold. C'mon Bob! You're not talking about raising $5-10 million of capital venture money. This will be money coming from the bank accounts of working people, many of whom have to scrimp and save in order to survive in Hawaii.
                          This post may contain an opinion that may conflict with your opinion. Do not take it personal. Polite discussion of difference of opinion is welcome.

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Re: Aloha Air files bankruptcy, again

                            Originally posted by Konaguy View Post
                            What a huge slap to the face of all Aloha's employees. They've already financially sacrificed when Aloha went through the last bankruptcy 3 years ago.

                            On that note, there was a rebuttal op-ed here.
                            From the rebuttal article:

                            I don't want the state to bail Aloha Airlines. I want this state to become a business-friendly environment so that another airline or another entity that has interests in operating an airline in Hawaii would have an easier entry into the market.
                            All it takes is political will for the State to become "business friendly". The first place to send a positive message to the business community and the world is to CUT TAXES.

                            Yes, I know, never in a million years will this happen. But it can. Just takes will and a change.
                            I'm still here. Are you?

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Re: Aloha Air files bankruptcy, again

                              Originally posted by mel View Post
                              All it takes is political will for the State to become "business friendly". The first place to send a positive message to the business community and the world is to CUT TAXES.

                              Yes, I know, never in a million years will this happen. But it can. Just takes will and a change.
                              Problem is, cutting taxes won't guarantee that 3 major interisland airlines can co-exist over the long haul.

                              Right now, it seems like people are stumbling around in the dark, blindly grasping and grabbing at any panacea that they think will keep Aloha Air afloat. I'm open-minded to solutions that include a viable plan that would make Aloha profitable in the long run. But I'm not for doing anything (i.e. tax cut, govt. loan guarantee) that would only delay the inevitable bankruptcy. Neither would I be in favor of any proposal that would only extend the interisland price war to see which airline will drop dead first of flowing red ink. As a taxpayer, I have to say, NO THANK YOU!
                              This post may contain an opinion that may conflict with your opinion. Do not take it personal. Polite discussion of difference of opinion is welcome.

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Re: Aloha Air files bankruptcy, again

                                Originally posted by Frankie's Market View Post
                                Problem is, cutting taxes won't guarantee that 3 major interisland airlines can co-exist over the long haul.
                                We still have 3 major interisland airlines if Aloha folds. Hawaiian, go!, and Island Air. Truth is, this market no where near needs 3 interisland airlines.

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X