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  • Re: Rail Transit

    Originally posted by Palolo Joe View Post
    You sound like a broken record... just move to the mainland already and you won't have to deal with Hawaii's taxes.
    You must be stuck in the same groove too, as this is the 2nd time you mentioned "moving".

    I'm still here. Are you?

    Comment


    • Re: Rail Transit

      Originally posted by mel View Post
      You must be stuck in the same groove too, as this is the 2nd time you mentioned "moving".
      Actually, it's the third time in this thread. And I think it's the best advice anyone could give in response to your whining.

      Comment


      • Re: Rail Transit

        Wow... couldn't even let up for Christmas... how sad.
        .
        .

        That's my story, and I'm sticking to it.

        Comment


        • Re: Rail Transit

          Originally posted by LikaNui View Post
          Wow... couldn't even let up for Christmas... how sad.
          Isn't it? You would think Mel would take it easy today.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Palolo Joe View Post
            Actually, it's the third time in this thread. And I think it's the best advice anyone could give in response to your whining.

            Isn't it? You would think Mel would take it easy today.
            It is real easy to attack the person with the minority viewpoint against rail by reeling on the personal attacks as you normally do, which is not new here.

            Only 7 days before the GE taxes go up. And all I am doing is stating the fact. Go ahead and celebrate that fact if you are a rail and tax supporter.

            You will get your train. You will get more taxes. I have to pay. You too. You won.

            Originally posted by joshuatree View Post
            I don't think any pro-rail folks feel threatened.
            Of course, you already won. The only thing opponents can do is continually nit pick on this every step of the way in hope the entire thing will be (unlikely) scrapped. It will be expensive no matter what.

            I say it again. You won. Opponents lost. More money taken away from us. We pay more. You pay more. We all pay more. The beginning of a bottomless pit.
            I'm still here. Are you?

            Comment


            • Re: Rail Transit

              I gotta throw my .02 on this. What I find very unfair is even in-directly the neighbor islands will have to pay more in GET.But won't get anything from the proposed mass transit system on Oahu.

              Since most of all the incoming freight comes via Honolulu, I really wonder how this GET increase on Oahu is going to be applied to freight going to other islands. Or better yet something mundane like a Honolulu lawyer doing paperwork for someone in Hilo. It all adds up to a tax nightmare in my opinion.
              Check out my blog on Kona issues :
              The Kona Blog

              Comment


              • Re: Rail Transit

                Mel, yes, Hawaii is overtaxed, anti-business, union-dominated and generally a nightmare for those of a conservative bent. I have my own frustrations about my home. But along with high gas prices, an overinflated real estate market, a struggling public education system, and so on and so on, these are the prices we pay for our paradise, such as it is.

                You so relentlessly take the "woe is me, I'm a minority" tack, it's hard to imagine that you, too, choose to remain in Hawaii, for all the injustices heaped upon you. But obviously you do. (Otherwise, PJ has amply demonstrated there's an alternative.)

                Of all the things that our tax-and-spend, namby-pamby, liberal government spends its money on, there are far, far greater travesties to lament than a city-changing, landmark public works project like this. Do I like paying more taxes? No. Do I want, finally, a mass transit system to come to Honolulu? Yes. I've got to suck up the former to have the latter, and it's clearly a choice many people are willing to make.

                I've supported rail in Honolulu for as long as I had any idea what it was, choosing the many failed proposals and projects for school reports since small kid time. I've waited over 20 years, and will probably wait at least that long to see it actually happen. But I'm hoping it will happen, finally -- if most certainly not immediately.

                My only hope, as others have said, that with most oars finally in the water paddling toward the same horizon, lesser people don't find a new mission in trying to sabotage and sink the boat. (I'm looking at you, Djou.) There are lots of reasons to oppose rail, I concede... but the vote is taken, the course is clear, and the mission now should be to help steer things responsibly (the countdown begins now for the first of many campaign finance and other investigations related to this big build!), not claim the title of martyr and take everyone else down with you.

                Comment


                • Re: Rail Transit

                  Originally posted by mel View Post
                  It is real easy to attack the person with the minority viewpoint against rail by reeling on the personal attacks as you normally do, which is not new here.

                  Only 7 days before the GE taxes go up. And all I am doing is stating the fact. Go ahead and celebrate that fact if you are a rail and tax supporter.

                  You will get your train. You will get more taxes. I have to pay. You too. You won.

                  Of course, you already won. The only thing opponents can do is continually nit pick on this every step of the way in hope the entire thing will be (unlikely) scrapped. It will be expensive no matter what.

                  I say it again. You won. Opponents lost. More money taken away from us. We pay more. You pay more. We all pay more. The beginning of a bottomless pit.
                  If anyone is making a personal attack in this thread, it's you. Go ahead and take the low road Mel. You know I couldn't care less if you get your panties in a bunch.

                  You continue on and on like a broken record. So again, I offer this solution to your whining:

                  MOVE TO THE MAINLAND.

                  Comment


                  • Re: Rail Transit

                    What's with the insistence that pro-rail folks have won? Won what? Like you said, we're gonna pay more tax. But pro-rail see this as a necessity to really address future gridlock. I too have been pro-rail many times in the past before, only to watch the nay-sayers derail the plan. Maybe if they didn't derail the 80% fed funding in previous attempts to build rail, we wouldn't have this tax today. They all say rail won't address congestion, that it will do nothing but attract unwanted development. Yet 30 years have passed and you know what, we still have a congestion problem even with all the road additions. We have so many more high rises now even though a rail does not exist. I don't feel threatened about the issue at all. If you nay-sayers derail this attempt again, I'll just merely go about my business, I'm not gonna fume and think the world is ending like the anti-rail folks are right now. But you truly indeed will be wasting taxpayer's money by playing spoiler on what's been officially voted. As pzarquon stated, don't be a lesser person and create a half-baked rail just so you can point fingers and say "I'd told ya so." That's petty and pathetic. I rather hope you channel all that energy and effort into guiding the construction and finance of this rail. Choose the right technology, choose the right route, make construction firms accountable, make politicians accountable, make the project on time and on budget. That will make the most out of the extra tax you vehemently despise. At least good will come out of it then.

                    And I too don't trust Mr. Djou. I don't really trust any politician but him especially. Seeing quotes from him thinking the rail will work and then maybe not shows he's trying to ride the fence. I just hope he respects the very system he works for and accepts the vote. He should spend all his effort on keeping the rail project accountable instead of sabotage.

                    Konaguy - I am not sure of how the details will work out on interisland transactions. But, as far as I understand, the increase applies to whatever is currently being taxed on Oahu anyway so I don't see how it's unfair, considering it's a tax already being levied. Maybe this will encourage more business to shift to the neighbor islands? A boon to you? Maybe a deal can be struck? When rail is built, maybe some buses can be transferred over to create your own public transportation?

                    Comment


                    • Re: Rail Transit

                      Originally posted by joshuatree View Post
                      Konaguy - I am not sure of how the details will work out on interisland transactions. But, as far as I understand, the increase applies to whatever is currently being taxed on Oahu anyway so I don't see how it's unfair, considering it's a tax already being levied. Maybe this will encourage more business to shift to the neighbor islands? A boon to you? Maybe a deal can be struck? When rail is built, maybe some buses can be transferred over to create your own public transportation?
                      I have sneaking suspicion that this GET increase will be passed along (probably)in-directly to us folks living on neighbor islands. We'll certainly have to keep an eye on it. As I can see it being a tax bureaucracy nightmare.

                      That being said, here is another example I buy something from a Oahu based business and I live in Kona. Do I get charged the 4.1666% GET or the 4.714% GET. I would bet that I would get assessed the higher rate. Or it would be
                      a nightmare to charge two different rates depending on your location.

                      Hence if the latter is the case, it is certainly unfair that we have to pay more in taxes for something that won't benefit us on the neighbor islands.
                      Check out my blog on Kona issues :
                      The Kona Blog

                      Comment


                      • Re: Rail Transit

                        I wish we would be proactive and look at mass transit solutions for the neighbor isles NOW. Maui could sure use it, as could the Big Isle.

                        pax

                        Comment


                        • Re: Rail Transit

                          The issue of neighbor islanders paying for a rail transit system they'll never use is not unlike people on Oahu paying taxes that pay for roads and bridges on the neighbor islands that they'll never use. It comes with being part of a state.

                          I'm not happy about paying more taxes, but if we don't get a more efficient mass-transit system, what's the true total cost of the options? Again, I'd point out that while yet another freeway might be less than a rail transit system, there are other related costs in addition to basic construction. Although those other related costs might not be incurred directly through increased taxes, you will see their effects in other ways, including the price of health insurance (the usual accident rates), auto insurance, price of parking, price of gas, etc.

                          People who can't drive deserve a decent way to get to wherever they need to be. Especially if it's job-related. Again, there's the issue of cost. For someone making a bit over minimum wage and living in Waianae (where the lower-priced housing tends to be), being forced to own a car could push them toward the brink of poverty. For people like this, an efficient mass transit is an important option.

                          And for various reasons, not everyone can drive. People with disabilities or other restrictions still need to get to their workplaces or classes. There are those who are sight imparied or who have other physical or mental problems that prevent them from driving -- but they're still able to contribute to our society. Stand in their shoes for a few weeks and try to see it that way, too.

                          Those who staunchly oppose a good rail system need to see first-hand what it's like to get from Ewa to downtown and back on the bus during the morning and afternoon rush hour. Do it for a month. Then imagine doing that for years. I'd bet good money that not a single rail system opponent out there wouldn't end up saying "this sucks!"

                          Aunty... The ferry I was thinking of ran from Campbell Industrial to downtown Honolulu as a brief experiment. I rode it a couple of times (it was free) and thought it was a neat idea, (fun and relaxing, too) but I couldn't see it as a major people-mover. It takes a considerable amount of power to get a hydroplane hull moving through the water at sufficient speed to make it "fly", and even swath hull designs aren't nearly as efficient as land vehicles. Things on wheels -- whether on tracks or on a paved surface -- don't have the same sort of fluid resistance to overcome as boats would.

                          Comment


                          • Re: Rail Transit

                            At a cost of 6 billion, the rail will cost you, your wife/husband/SO, and all your children over $6000 EACH.

                            That means all the people on the neighbor islands, all the people who live outside the reach of the projected rail line, and all the people who do not live or work or shop anywhere along the rail line, will each have to pay over at least $6000 for something they will not use.

                            Less than 5 percent of the people of Honolulu are projected to use it. But 100 percent of the people will have to foot the bill at thousands of dollars each.

                            Total insanity. Mufi and all the councilman who voted for this "fixed guideway system" are idiots.

                            There are so many other things that can be done for so much less that would be so much more effective and help more people, but instead Mufi wants his glorious grandiose monument for people to remember him by.
                            Last edited by mapen; December 26, 2006, 12:01 AM.

                            Comment


                            • Re: Rail Transit

                              Just imagine a family of four in Hilo, Hawaii. Their fair share of the cost of rail is over $24,000. And they would have to get on a plane and fly to Oahu just to use it.

                              Comment


                              • Re: Rail Transit

                                Originally posted by Composite 2992 View Post
                                Again, there's the issue of cost. For someone making a bit over minimum wage and living in Waianae (where the lower-priced housing tends to be), being forced to own a car could push them toward the brink of poverty. For people like this, an efficient mass transit is an important option.
                                However, I think the property prices (and rents) are likely to rise in the areas serviced by rail because it's not easier to get to work. Then what?

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