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Hawaii Superferry - Chapter 6

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  • #61
    Re: Hawaii Superferry - Chapter 6

    From what I have been reading from the SuperFerry web site they suggest that you arrive early because 30 minutes before departure time they won't allow latecomers on.

    Granted they should have said to arrive 2 to 3 hours before departure time.

    Sure they have to load the ferry within 30 to 40 minutes but they would have check the cars before then.

    Comment


    • #62
      Re: Hawaii Superferry - Chapter 6

      Originally posted by woodman View Post
      this is mainly an issue of small communities facing a major change that will bring drugs, theft and gridlock while they are left with little or no means to deal with it.
      So you're saying that those small communities had no drugs, theft and gridlock before the SuperFerry? I'll need to see proof of that, as I don't believe the claim for one minute.
      And you're also saying that all or most O`ahu residents are druggies, thieves and rude drivers, but the neighbor islands have none of that now?
      What intelligent person would believe any of that nonsense?!?
      .
      .

      That's my story, and I'm sticking to it.

      Comment


      • #63
        Re: Hawaii Superferry - Chapter 6

        Originally posted by LikaNui View Post
        And you're also saying that all or most O`ahu residents are druggies, thieves and rude drivers, but the neighbor islands have none of that now?
        What intelligent person would believe any of that nonsense?!?
        That is not what I am saying at all.

        Once again a superferry supporter has taken a tangent departure from the topic; attempting to use peripheral elements of the discussion and deliberately misrepresenting them to make an absurd statement.

        Again, you missed the point.

        My entire post was about how people like you keep missing the point.

        If you're going to imply that I'm spewing unintelligent nonsense, then you might actually lend yourself more credibility if you could just stay focused on the topic instead of trying to manipulate opinions by misrepresenting my statements.

        No Superferry supporters will address the fact that theft began the first day of operation, and if they do they can only seem to downplay the incident instead of attempting to find definitive resolution to the problem.

        No Superferry supporter will acknowlege that if Oahu residents were put into a similar situation and suddenly forced to accept large numbers of visitors from outside of their community, there would be widespread outrage.

        No Superferry supporters can justify the same ratio of increased vehicles on Oahu roadways, and I doubt any would tolerate it.

        No Superferry supporters have dared to address the link between local communities on the outer islands being over run with off-island residents brought by the Superferry, and the State's increased regulation of vacation rental units in neighborhoods (mostly on Oahu) that have been over run by non-resident visitors. The double standard, here, sticks out like a sore thumb.

        Comment


        • #64
          Re: Hawaii Superferry - Chapter 6

          I speak on the behalf of myself and my household. We support the Superferry as another option to travel within our State for any purpose we may choose. We will abide the laws at our destination, as we do in our every day lives.

          To address WOODMAN's allegations about Superferry supporters:

          1. I do not know of any theft occuring on the first day of operations, therefore please don't generalize and say that as a supporter I will not acknowledge something I know nothing about. If this crime did occur, then the proper authorities should follow-up on this. Do I continue to support the Superferry despite the allegation of theft? Yes, the same way I continue to be a loyal patron to Hawaiian Airlines and continue to support the TSA despite the reports of employees being convicted of theft. It's certain individuals, not the company-at-large.

          2. If Oahu were to be put in a similar situation as the neighbor islands regarding the transportation of passengers with their vehicles, OH WAIT aren't we already with the return voyage?

          3. Traffic is a problem on Oahu, however I don't make it my problem. Will I tolerate additional vehicles on the roadways of Oahu? I already do.

          4. In your last point, you declare that no supporter of the Superferry will address the link between the local communities on the outer islands being over run by the off-island residents brought by the Superferry...how can we, the Superferry has yet to make a successful voyage?

          I don't support illegal drugs in any neighborhood.

          I don't support copper theft in any neighborhood.

          But mostly, I don't support disrespect. And, I feel that the behavior the protestors were disrespectful, specifically on Kauai.

          The reasons listed for the opposition of the Superferry frustrates this support since I don't intend to contribute to any illegal activities here or elsewhere.
          ___
          "Be god to each other."

          Comment


          • #65
            Re: Hawaii Superferry - Chapter 6

            Originally posted by woodman View Post
            That is not what I am saying at all.
            But I quoted your exact words.

            Once again a superferry supporter has taken a tangent departure from the topic; attempting to use peripheral elements of the discussion and deliberately misrepresenting them to make an absurd statement.
            But I quoted your exact words.
            And most of us feel that the ANTI-SuperFerry group are the ones who go off on tangents.

            Again, you missed the point.
            There is no point to the anti's claims of drugs and thieves. It's just a desperation move in a pathetic attempt to obfuscate the real issues.

            My entire post was about how people like you keep missing the point.
            People like me simply point out faulty claims. None of the anti's have yet to come close to providing intelligent reasons for me to switch my position. I'm very strongly anti-overdevelopment of any of our islands, but the SuperFerry will not contribute to overdevelopment and instead will provide a huge variety of benefits.

            If you're going to imply that I'm spewing unintelligent nonsense, then you might actually lend yourself more credibility if you could just stay focused on the topic instead of trying to manipulate opinions by misrepresenting my statements.
            For the third time... I quoted your exact words.

            No Superferry supporters will address the fact that theft began the first day of operation, and if they do they can only seem to downplay the incident instead of attempting to find definitive resolution to the problem.
            So nobody from Maui ever stole any of those rocks? And who's to say that the SuperFerry inspection wouldn't have caught it once the truck had a pre-boarding inspection? (Remember, it was still in the parking lot, as the SuperFerry had been halted.)
            You also mentioned copper thefts in your earlier post. It's very obvious that a truckload of copper scrap would raise a red flag during pre-boarding inspection too.
            The anti's are condemning the SuperFerry for things that haven't happened. That's just plain silly.

            No Superferry supporter will acknowlege that if Oahu residents were put into a similar situation and suddenly forced to accept large numbers of visitors from outside of their community, there would be widespread outrage.
            We get "large numbers of outside visitors" every single day. More than all the neighbor islands combined. We deal with it.

            No Superferry supporters have dared to address the link between local communities on the outer islands being over run with off-island residents brought by the Superferry, and the State's increased regulation of vacation rental units (...) The double standard, here, sticks out like a sore thumb.
            Apples and oranges. There's a separate thread about vacation rentals.
            Most anti's admit that O`ahu residents will be staying with family on the neighbor islands.

            Feel free to keep trying, though.
            .
            .

            That's my story, and I'm sticking to it.

            Comment


            • #66
              Re: Hawaii Superferry - Chapter 6

              Originally posted by woodman View Post
              No Superferry supporter will acknowlege that if Oahu residents were put into a similar situation and suddenly forced to accept large numbers of visitors from outside of their community, there would be widespread outrage.
              Huh? ???

              http://starbulletin.com/2007/02/28/news/story01.html

              What about all those guys??? Don't they count? They've been invading for a long time, now! And they invade you guys, too. How come no protesters running their skateboard down the runway at the airport trying to block all the planes?

              Sorry, your argument is not very convincing. Hella lot fewer of us "neighbor" guys goin' visit on the boat than the ones who come in on the planes. The "invasion of the Honoluluans" story just doesn't wash when compared with all the other invaders coming in by other means.

              As Brother Noland said so well, "Are you native? Na na na na na na na na, NATIVE!"
              Make trouble, have fun, do good stuffs.

              Comment


              • #67
                Re: Hawaii Superferry - Chapter 6

                I don't quite understand how Greg Kaufman can be an expert witness both for the plaintiffs and defendants on Maui, but he is. And he's been pretty consistent about stating that HSF, because of its size and speed, will result in whale strikes that result in the death of the whale. There have been other whale strikes in the waters off Maui, he said, but most of those "strikes" have been because the whales bumped into the boats and not the boats bumping into the whales.

                It'll be interesting to hear how the HSF's other whale expert refutes Kaufman's testimony next week.

                Miulang
                "Americans believe in three freedoms. Freedom of speech; freedom of religion; and the freedom to deny the other two to folks they don`t like.” --Mark Twain

                Comment


                • #68
                  mel says: "I must be part of the 'Evil Empire' even though I am originally from the Big Island."

                  The pro-Superferry contingent wants and tries to make this whole water ferry issue into a case of discrimination against Oahu citizens in an effort to gloss over the very heartfelt and serious concerns of County of Honolulu's neighbor islanders. Many of the latter consistently express that they do favor some kind of ferry connection between the islands, they just don't favor a Superferry connection.

                  For Superferry ideologues and their apologists, it's all about The Superferries' alleged blessings to all inhabitants of the islands.

                  oceanpacific says: " (When shipping vehicles by Young Brothers one is) not supposed to load any cargo (in the vehicle), but that didn't stop a couple of my friends from putting their golf clubs in my trunk. "

                  That's quite a revelation from one in the crowd of Superferry supporters who claim that security will be sufficient for Superferry operations to prohibit the transport of illicit goods.

                  InfinityProductions says: " I do not know of any theft occuring on the first day of operations..."

                  You don't know about the three Oahu truck loads of rocks stolen from Maui's I'o stream that were intercepted by State officials, not Superferry officials, prior to their boarding Superferry destined for Oahu? You don't know about the alleged thief who came over to Kauai on Superferry and was arrested a fter he had burlarized three homes? The first commercial (if free to $5 trips can be considered commercial!) trips to each island...some inauguration!
                  ++-
                  InfinityProductions says: "If Oahu were to be put in a similar situation as the neighbor islands regarding the transportation of passengers with their vehicles..."

                  Then I.P. doesn't answer the supposition he presented, very much as no Superferry supporters answered that supposition when it was posed them last week in this thread concerning Superferry service to Los Angeles which, in terms of population, is as Honolulu is to Kauai: about 15 times of one to the other. That is what Woodman meant by "similar situation",,,,and as with most all Superferry-supporter dialogue, I.P. reduces logic to absurdity.
                  +++-
                  InfinityProductions says: "But mostly, I don't support disrespect. And, I feel that the behavior the protestors were disrespectful, specifically on Kauai."

                  Certainly neither the State nor Superferry are doing anything disrespectful toward Kauai citizens are they?? Tyranny by the majority
                  ++++-
                  InfinityProductions says: "The reasons listed for the opposition of the Superferry frustrates this support since I don't intend to contribute to any illegal activities here or elsewhere."

                  So, should the Hawaii Supreme Court rule that this whole Superferry process being crammed down the throats of Oahu's neighbor islanders is either not legal or not in accordance with the intention of the law, then you would side with the Superferry opposition?

                  InfinityProductions says: " I do not know of any theft occuring on the first day of operations..."

                  You don't know about the three Oahu truck loads of rocks stolen from Maui's I'o stream that were intercepted by State officials, not Superferry officials, prior to their boarding Superferry destined for Oahu? You don't know about the alleged thief who came over to Kauai on Superferry and was arrested a fter he had burlarized three homes? The first commercial (if free to $5 trips can be considered commercial!) trips to each island...some inauguration!
                  ++++
                  InfinityProductions says: "If Oahu were to be put in a similar situation as the neighbor islands regarding the transportation of passengers with their vehicles..."

                  Then I.P. doesn't answer the supposition he presented, very much as no Superferry supporters answered that supposition when it was posed them last week in this thread concerning Superferry service to Los Angeles which, in terms of population, is as Honolulu is to Kauai: about 15 times of one to the other. That is what Woodman meant by "similar situation",,,,and as with most all Superferry-supporter dialogue, I.P. reduces logic to absurdity.

                  InfinityProductions says: "But mostly, I don't support disrespect. And, I feel that the behavior the protestors were disrespectful, specifically on Kauai."

                  Certainly neither the State nor Superferry doing anything disrespectful toward Kauai citizens is there? ?

                  InfinityProductions says: "The reasons listed for the opposition of the Superferry frustrates this support since I don't intend to contribute to any illegal activities here or elsewhere." So, should the Hawaii Supreme Court rule that this whole Superferry process being crammed down the throats of Oahu's neighbor islanders is either not legal or not in accordance with the intention of the law, then you would side with the Superferry opposition?

                  Comment


                  • #69
                    Re: Hawaii Superferry - Chapter 6

                    I think I'll avoid visiting Kauai from now on and stick to visiting the other islands.It seems you people there don't want any outsiders visiting. Which is fine with
                    me, I don't want to visit a place where people act like children and slash peoples tires.
                    Check out my blog on Kona issues :
                    The Kona Blog

                    Comment


                    • #70
                      Re: Hawaii Superferry - Chapter 6

                      Originally posted by craig foo View Post

                      The pro-Superferry contingent wants and tries to make this whole water ferry issue into a case of discrimination against Oahu citizens ..... (blah blah blahs cut)
                      All Oahu people are evil.
                      I'm still here. Are you?

                      Comment


                      • #71
                        Re: Hawaii Superferry - Chapter 6

                        Originally posted by craig foo View Post
                        The pro-Superferry contingent wants and tries to make this whole water ferry issue into a case of discrimination against Oahu citizens in an effort to gloss over the very heartfelt and serious concerns of County of Honolulu's neighbor islanders.
                        No, this was started by anti-ferry protesters. Repeatedly, the argument was Oahu will bring over their drugs and their empty pockets and cruising the neighborhoods. Then they may or may not return to Oahu. Check out post #26, oh wait, you said that yourself.....

                        Comment


                        • #72
                          Re: Hawaii Superferry - Chapter 6

                          Check out the HSF website. No firm date yet for resumption of sailing to Kaua'i, but they expect to be sailing again to Maui on Tuesday, Oct. 9 (reservations for 1 person + car RT HNL-Kahului < $300 assuming the surcharge doesn't change).

                          Miulang
                          Last edited by Miulang; September 29, 2007, 08:08 PM.
                          "Americans believe in three freedoms. Freedom of speech; freedom of religion; and the freedom to deny the other two to folks they don`t like.” --Mark Twain

                          Comment


                          • #73
                            Re: Hawaii Superferry - Chapter 6

                            Originally posted by joshuatree
                            No, this was started by anti-ferry protesters. Repeatedly, the argument was Oahu will bring over their drugs and their empty pockets and cruising the neighborhoods...you said that yourself.....
                            Yes, in the context of "passengers and their possessions which the Superferry ensures will arrive to Oahu's neighbor islands by the thousands weekly."

                            Anti ferry protesters? Really? Who are anti ferry protestors? Aren't you an anti ferry protester? Aren't you against ferry protesters? How does your being an anti-ferry protester compare with being a pro-ferry protester?
                            Last edited by craig foo; September 29, 2007, 08:59 PM. Reason: remove extra words

                            Comment


                            • #74
                              Re: Hawaii Superferry - Chapter 6

                              Originally posted by LikaNui View Post

                              ... I quoted your exact words.
                              WRONG!!!

                              You made two absurd statements and attempted to pose them as suggestive questions.
                              So, let me quote YOUR “exact words” back to you:

                              Originally posted by LikaNui View Post
                              So you're saying that those small communities had no drugs, theft and gridlock before the SuperFerry?

                              ...And you're also saying that all or most O`ahu residents are druggies, thieves and rude drivers, but the neighbor islands have none of that now?
                              What intelligent person would believe any of that nonsense?!?
                              Again, that is NOT what I’m saying, at all.

                              This is a cheap tactic that attempts to manipulate opinion on an issue by misrepresenting the views of others.

                              It’s kind of a “panty-boy” trick because it allows the person doing it to say “I never made that a statement, I was just asking a question,”.

                              The people who resort to it are usually too chicken to make it an outright statement, because they know that they will be challenged if they do, so they resort to the tactic of making a suggestive question.

                              This goes a long way to indicate kind of sincerity that people bring to the discussion, and it is a good indicator of how credible they are in terms of earnestly presenting facts with the intent of offering ideas to find genuine resolution.

                              Originally posted by LikaNui View Post

                              ... And most of us feel that the ANTI-SuperFerry group are the ones who go off on tangents.
                              That’s funny.

                              I have yet to see anyone in the “ANTI-SuperFerry group” extrapolate some dramatically exaggerated perspective out of peripheral issues raised during discussion, then pose them as absurd comments disguised as questions.

                              Originally posted by LikaNui View Post
                              There is no point to the anti's claims of drugs and thieves. It's just a desperation move in a pathetic attempt to obfuscate the real issues.

                              People like me simply point out faulty claims.
                              I think it is abundantly apparent that there are, indeed, individuals who are determined to obfuscate the issue.

                              It is unfortunate that I should even have to mention this, but raising points of disagreement does not equate to “pointing out faulty claims”.
                              Last edited by woodman; September 29, 2007, 08:26 PM.

                              Comment


                              • #75
                                Re: Hawaii Superferry - Chapter 6

                                Originally posted by woodman View Post
                                I think it is abundantly apparent that there are, indeed, individuals who are determined to obfuscate the issue.
                                Yes, but if you try to be more precise in your comments and use less generalizations and oversimplifications, you'll be less likely to be acused of obfuscationism.
                                You're new here. You'll learn.
                                Care to try again?
                                .
                                .

                                That's my story, and I'm sticking to it.

                                Comment

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