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  • Re: Rail Transit

    Originally posted by joshuatree View Post
    This project isn't done for the sake of the construction industry, it's a needed infrastructure to supporters like me.
    So we agree to judge rail on the merits of the completed project and not the temporary jobs it creates? That's all I want.

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    • Re: Rail Transit

      Originally posted by GeckoGeek View Post
      So we agree to judge rail on the merits of the completed project and not the temporary jobs it creates? That's all I want.
      Yes, we're in agreement. I've always supported the rail project based on its merits alone (which of course has multitudes of debate), but I also see a secondary benefit that's being more and more pronounced with a declining economy.

      Comment


      • Re: Rail Transit

        Originally posted by GeckoGeek View Post
        I still think everyone is chasing the wrong power source. Solar thermal may have some promise, but there's some huge problems with Solar PV. I think the answer is biofuels. And biofuels work nicely in diesel engines.
        Not just solar. The big one is geothermal. The state's department of business and economic development is working toward the installation of submarine power cables to link islands together. Power generated by Lanai's PV system will be transmitted to Maui, for example. Longer spans in deeper water is possible. A similar system is being planned to link India with Sri Lanka. There's already one installed between Australia and Tasmania. And there's one planned to span 650 miles from Oregon to California.

        Geothermal can provide base power for the entire state. Local powerplants can help with peak loads.

        Biodiesel is certainly a good option, too. And thermo depolymerization is still being developed as a means of turning garbage into fuel and other minerals -- that would be a huge help in reducing the problem of solid waste disposal while also providing an additional fuel source.

        Comment


        • Re: Rail Transit

          Originally posted by joshuatree View Post
          I also see a secondary benefit that's being more and more pronounced with a declining economy.
          Although I have to wonder just how much the government can really do. While the Feds can print money, the city and state must pull money out of the economy (in this case in the form of a 0.5% tax) in order to create jobs. I have a problem believing that one can tax and spend their way to prosperity.

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          • Re: Rail Transit

            Originally posted by GeckoGeek View Post
            Although I have to wonder just how much the government can really do. While the Feds can print money, the city and state must pull money out of the economy (in this case in the form of a 0.5% tax) in order to create jobs. I have a problem believing that one can tax and spend their way to prosperity.
            Consider it an investment. Fewer unemployed means more money moving toward paying rent or mortages, groceries, gas, and so on. It helps keep businesses alive and other people employed.

            Comment


            • Re: Rail Transit

              Originally posted by Composite 2992 View Post
              Consider it an investment. Fewer unemployed means more money moving toward paying rent or mortages, groceries, gas, and so on. It helps keep businesses alive and other people employed.
              But the money is coming from people who are spending. If it wasn't for that 0.5% tax, they'd have more money to spend which in turn would fuel the economy directly and naturally. Just because it's being done in many little chunks doesn't mean it's not hurting anything by doing that.

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              • Re: Rail Transit

                Originally posted by GeckoGeek View Post
                But the money is coming from people who are spending. If it wasn't for that 0.5% tax, they'd have more money to spend which in turn would fuel the economy directly and naturally. Just because it's being done in many little chunks doesn't mean it's not hurting anything by doing that.
                It's going toward a project that increases the size of the workforce. It's hundreds of thousands of people giving up a tiny amount of their income to help get several hundred or a few thousand others a living wage. All while building something that will benefit tens of thousands of commuters. It might also help get our state less reliant on outside energy sources.

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                • Re: Rail Transit

                  Originally posted by GeckoGeek View Post
                  But the money is coming from people who are spending. If it wasn't for that 0.5% tax, they'd have more money to spend which in turn would fuel the economy directly and naturally. Just because it's being done in many little chunks doesn't mean it's not hurting anything by doing that.
                  Upfront, yes. But isn't that the premise of investing? Say you set aside X dollars a month to invest in a savings account. That's money that could have been spent. But you're looking at the return in the long run.

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                  • Re: Rail Transit

                    A tax is not an investment. When people invest they do it voluntarily. When people are taxed it is forced upon us. All taxes are forced upon us by government.

                    I'm still here. Are you?

                    Comment


                    • Re: Rail Transit

                      Originally posted by mel View Post
                      A tax is not an investment. When people invest they do it voluntarily. When people are taxed it is forced upon us. All taxes are forced upon us by government.
                      So building every public piece of infrastructure is not an investment in that society?

                      Comment


                      • Re: Rail Transit

                        You cannot escape the fact that taxes are forced upon us by government and that if we don't pay them, the penalties are quite dire and severe.

                        Public infrastructure is part of government's obligation to use those taxes wisely.

                        Rail is not a wise use of taxes. It is wasteful spending of taxpayer dollars.

                        Enough said.

                        I'll let you folks continue with your lust-fest for paying more money and yakking about this incredibly expensive rail.
                        I'm still here. Are you?

                        Comment


                        • Re: Rail Transit

                          Originally posted by mel View Post
                          Rail is not a wise use of taxes. It is wasteful spending of taxpayer dollars.
                          That is your opinion of the matter which at the end of the day, each one of us is entitled to. But the fact remains, a vote was taken for this project and it passed. I'm tired of hearing about all these conspiracy theories of how improper influence was done yadda, yadda, yadda.

                          For once, I actually applaud Djou. Despite his objection to the rail project, when an outright vote was taken and the rail project passed, he's accepted and is now channeling his energy towards constructive purposes, such as how to correct and better the rail project.

                          That very link you provided showing wasteful spending, I've already discovered some very shady manipulation of data and fabrication of numbers to pitch its argument. Makes it no better than the supposed evil gov't it bashes upon.

                          Comment


                          • Re: Rail Transit

                            I agree with Mel that rail is a waste. The city proposes to take several billion out of Hawaii taxpayers' pockets to build a system that they project will reduce traffic by 7%.

                            That's very little bang for a huge amount of bucks.

                            Rail has not alleviated traffic anywhere in the US. Why do we think it will work here?

                            Comment


                            • Re: Rail Transit

                              Originally posted by joshuatree View Post
                              But the fact remains, a vote was taken for this project and it passed.
                              Actually no, there was never a vote taken for this project. What was voted on by the citizens are:

                              1) A statewide vote allowing the state to raise the state general excise tax (GET) from 4% to 4.5% on a county by county basis and that raised .5% goes to fund that county's mass transit system. While the City & County of Honolulu has done that option, I don't know the status of Kauai, Maui and Hawaii counties in regreads to the GET raise, if they did it or what is their mass tranist plan. I do know that the Hawaii county bus system people can ride on it for free, if that was because of the GET raise or not I have no idea.

                              2) A Honolulu county wide vote on allowing the use of rail as means of mass transit for this county.

                              Comment


                              • Re: Rail Transit

                                Originally posted by helen View Post
                                Actually no, there was never a vote taken for this project. What was voted on by the citizens are:

                                1) A statewide vote allowing the state to raise the state general excise tax (GET) from 4% to 4.5% on a county by county basis and that raised .5% goes to fund that county's mass transit system. While the City & County of Honolulu has done that option, I don't know the status of Kauai, Maui and Hawaii counties in regreads to the GET raise, if they did it or what is their mass tranist plan. I do know that the Hawaii county bus system people can ride on it for free, if that was because of the GET raise or not I have no idea.

                                2) A Honolulu county wide vote on allowing the use of rail as means of mass transit for this county.
                                1) As I understand, no other county has chosen the option to raise the GET tax an additional 0.5% for their mass transit plan.

                                2) Given the well known city rail project and the continued advancement of the project to the next phase, it's implicit the vote allowing the use of rail as means of mass transit is acknowledgment and approval of the rail project. Otherwise, both sides did not need to bring out all stops in campaigning right up to the 11th hour before the vote.

                                Comment

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