Rail Transit

[Keanu]

Re: Rail Transit

If this goes to ballot (and I have my doubts) what would be the option if rail is rejected?This really isn't as simple as an up or down vote on rail. I'm pretty certain the HOT lane alternative will never see the light of day in Honolulu, no matter how many people support it.

[GeckoGeek]

Re: Rail Transit

Fine. If you want to dedicate a few "boxcars" to privileged people (with fine dining), yet allow "us slimy types" to use economy-class boxcars (more like freight cars for cattles), I have no problem with that.

I just hope I'm sandwiched tight between two (anatomically correct) wahines.

Well, Japan has female only cars so the women can avoid the gropers. It would have trouble happening here, but I wouldn't say it's impossible.

Talking with friends, they seemed more interested in having nice reserved seats. No having to stand in lines to get a good one, or having to stand for the whole ride. That is certainly do-able.


I'm glad someone has started the initiative. I'm surprised how much my friends are talking about rail. It seems like today's headline has kick a grassroots anthill. And I'm not finding any rail supporters. Perhaps it's because I'm downtown and it does nothing for us. It also doesn't do anything for the windward side or east Honolulu. In a public vote, I think rail has a uphill battle.

My only reservation about the initiative is that it's killing rail entirely. I'm not against rail as a technology. I'm against this plan. It's too much for too little. But I welcome the idea of bringing it all out for public discussion.

[GeckoGeek]

Re: Rail Transit

I know the initial route plan kinda suck, but we can grow from there.

Maybe with it coming to a vote it will light a fire under the planners to add some phases.

I can tolerate a sucky Phase 1 if I like the end result.

If this goes to ballot (and I have my doubts) what would be the option if rail is rejected?This really isn't as simple as an up or down vote on rail.

Vote-wise, it is that simple. No doubt it will be hotly debated. I see this more as the public saying "This sucks big time (big enough to get us off our butts and do something). Go back and come up with something better."

[joshuatree]

Re: Rail Transit

My only reservation about the initiative is that it's killing rail entirely. I'm not against rail as a technology. I'm against this plan. It's too much for too little. But I welcome the idea of bringing it all out for public discussion.

This is a sloppy fight on all sides. One reason why I'm not all gungho on a public vote is because of the specific agenda, stop rail now. It shows how myopic or perhaps how malicious special interest groups are operating. And the public can easily be swayed purely on emotional grounds sadly. If the agenda was to put to public vote do we want rail the way it is being planned, then it's totally a different matter. It's not too late to change how rail can be funded, it's not too late to change the route to better reflect the big picture. And I agree, people need to view the entire system, not just the initial segment.

It sounds partially ignorant for people to be wishing reserved spots, no line....this isn't a first class coach on the orient express. It's a public transit system. More of today's me me me attitude.

All in all, typical Hawaii bumbling.......

[GeckoGeek]

Re: Rail Transit

It sounds partially ignorant for people to be wishing reserved spots, no line....this isn't a first class coach on the orient express. It's a public transit system. More of today's me me me attitude.

I'm pointing out what may be the key to getting more people out of their cars and to take mass transit. Treating people like cattle isn't going to cut it. If we're talking about rush hour traffic where the majority are doing the same thing the same time every work day, a reserved seat doesn't sound all that unreasonable. If you're worried about an empty seat, then there can be standby.

It's interesting that in an age where communism is fading away, that some still think mass transit should treat riders like proletariats.

[Karen]

Re: Rail Transit

"One reason why I'm not all gungho on a public vote is because of the specific agenda, stop rail now. It shows how myopic or perhaps how malicious special interest groups are operating."

Sorry, can't see the legitimacy of this point at all. How a public vote could ever be wrong when those pushing for a vote always have an agenda and yet everyone that pushes for a vote on any issue is always putting the decision out of their own power and into the power of the people.

The people are paying for this and it is the voice of all that will get up and vote that should decide this, not just the folks that made town meetings.

BILLIONS of dollars when this country is hit hard and this state is just seeing the start of slowdown... well, no matter what my current arguments are against rail...

voting is the right thing to do.

[sansei]

Re: Rail Transit

hi this is sansei and this morning i -emailed the mayor's office and i shared with him that he's doing a good thing on having our rail transit and the offices shared with me that where i e-mailed to is his direct office and not the office i called and their response was that they will fwd my message to our mayor and he'll probably e-mail me back with his response and when i talked to the office i called,i shared with them that the mayor is doing a good thing with rail transit and they shared with me that i was a nice person for sharing my good thought's with them and they'll make sure our mayor get's my kind message so I Thought to share this with everyone.

well thank's for your time

[Karen]

Re: Rail Transit

Yes, he does actually, or has his office reply to his email. We emailed back and forth last year, about rail and at least they do, or he does reply.

[joshuatree]

Re: Rail Transit

I'm pointing out what may be the key to getting more people out of their cars and to take mass transit. Treating people like cattle isn't going to cut it. If we're talking about rush hour traffic where the majority are doing the same thing the same time every work day, a reserved seat doesn't sound all that unreasonable. If you're worried about an empty seat, then there can be standby.

It's interesting that in an age where communism is fading away, that some still think mass transit should treat riders like proletariats.

You're still confusing private transit with public transit. So how much are you willing to pay a day for this extra service? Do we have to "check-in" now like at the airport so in case you're not taking your seat, the stand-by can get on board?

Sorry, can't see the legitimacy of this point at all. How a public vote could ever be wrong when those pushing for a vote always have an agenda and yet everyone that pushes for a vote on any issue is always putting the decision out of their own power and into the power of the people.

The people are paying for this and it is the voice of all that will get up and vote that should decide this, not just the folks that made town meetings.

BILLIONS of dollars when this country is hit hard and this state is just seeing the start of slowdown... well, no matter what my current arguments are against rail...

voting is the right thing to do.

A public vote on a skewed referendum is useless if not detrimental. Putin's handpicked successor was "voted" in but you really believe the election wasn't rigged? And that's what stoprailnow is trying to do, float a petition that is skewed. Very legitimate concern, try looking up who owns stoprailnow.org, Mr. Slater, the very core member of honolulutraffic and HOT lanes. That's just a wolf in sheep's clothing, he's the opposition special interest, not your average citizen interest.

[Karen]

Re: Rail Transit

I don't care who he is. I don't care which side calls or called for a vote. Voting is the way we find out the will of the majority. Voting is the bottom line for me, it makes sense, is right and honorable. In fact....something as huge and expensive as rail should not be allowed to become reality without....a vote of the populace.

Voting is so basic and such a simple idea while the rail has so many complexities. lastly, voting is the right thing to do and both sides should see it that way.

[Walkoff Balk]

Re: Rail Transit

The Municipal Building on the corner of King and Alapai (650 South King is the official address) is now the Frank F. Fasi Municipal Building. Was renamed last year in honor of the former mayor.

I forgot about that building. I was thinking of something more grand to be named after Frank Fasi. No Disrespect to that building(Ok, here comes the negative after saying no disrespect) but it's no busy street, stadium, arena, or convention center to have your name attached to. Unfortunately, a bigger memorial landmark will be named after he passes away.

[cynsaligia]

Re: Rail Transit

eric, my friend sam, and i were all at UH in the nineties when rene mansho killed rail back then (a pox on that woman!). in fact, to my utter disgust, i somehow managed to take an econ class from the most anti-rail prof on campus, lou rose (a pox on that man, too!).

since then, we've watched traffic from parts ewa into town get progressively--nay, exponentially--worse. eric, sam, and other folk we know have had our lives affected by our traffic woes, whether it is because we drive in that horrid crap every day or whether it is because we refuse to move into a larger, cheaper home since doing so means we would have to drive in that horrid crap every day.

it's inane to expect that rail should magically solve all traffic woes on oahu. that's like saying, "i shouldn't watch what i eat bcs dieting alone won't make me lose all the weight i wanna lose!" how lame is that? just as losing weight requires a multiple pronged approach (diet, exercise, etc), easing traffic requires multiple prongs as well (and rail is just as important to easing traffic as dieting is to losing weight).

it's ridiculous to claim that because rail doesn't work in other cities similar in size to honolulu, it won't help here. um, hello? our city's brilliant planners of the past managed to jack up our freeway system by making onramps come before offramps and putting them so close together. that alone doomed us to bad traffic as the oahu's population grew. anything that allows even a small percentage of would-be drivers out of the atrocity of our urban freeway system (like rail would) would make a significant impact.

as for this supposed grass roots anti-rail movement: hogwash.

one of my classmates, the housewife of a wealthy businessman from china who recently moved to honolulu for work reasons, tried to convince the rest of us to sign the stoprailnow petition just as class ended. out of a class of 20, no one took any of her flyers or indicated any interest. she'd mentioned earlier in the semester that she and her hubby live in one of the new condos in downtown/kakaako. i'm pretty sure she and her hubby are against rail not because they believe it's a poor solution to our traffic problem, but bcs it will cause their condo property value to go down significantly in only a few years.

most everyone i know who lives on oahu AND needs to make a living on oahu* are pro-rail, and have been, since the nineties. we're the ones who voted into office the various politicians who are pro-rail (like mufi--and rail is the only issue that upon which i truly agree with my fellow alumnus). THAT's how we voted for rail.

as for charles djou? that pearhead never had an original, constructive idea in his life. he's basically a broken record. i don't think i've ever heard him say anything that wasn't a variation on the word, "no!"

methinks that the more the railing anti-railers carry on, the more there will be a reaction by most of the regular citizenry who want and need rail.

kinda like what happened with the superferry.

*i make this distinction bcs there's a big diff b/w people who simply reside here versus those who have to work to continue residing here.

[joshuatree]

Re: Rail Transit

I don't care who he is. I don't care which side calls or called for a vote. Voting is the way we find out the will of the majority. Voting is the bottom line for me, it makes sense, is right and honorable. In fact....something as huge and expensive as rail should not be allowed to become reality without....a vote of the populace.

Voting is so basic and such a simple idea while the rail has so many complexities. lastly, voting is the right thing to do and both sides should see it that way.

I respect the concept of voting but if you don't care who or what you are voting just for the sake of voting, that's downright scary.


Looks like UH-West will get a stop with the latest development. Also a glimpse of a more refined route.

http://starbulletin.com/2008/04/23/news/story01.html

[GeckoGeek]

Re: Rail Transit

You're still confusing private transit with public transit.

The solution to the problem may well be private transit.

So how much are you willing to pay a day for this extra service?

Whatever gets people to use it.

Do we have to "check-in" now like at the airport so in case you're not taking your seat, the stand-by can get on board?

No, I think a simple "there's 5 empty seats, next 5 please" will do. Much like the airlines do at the gate.

since then, we've watched traffic from parts ewa into town get progressively--nay, exponentially--worse. eric, sam, and other folk we know have had our lives affected by our traffic woes, whether it is because we drive in that horrid crap every day or whether it is because we refuse to move into a larger, cheaper home since doing so means we would have to drive in that horrid crap every day.

it's inane to expect that rail should magically solve all traffic woes on oahu.

No, I don't expect to to "solve" the problem, but it's a matter of cost/benefit. $5.25M/car removed from traffic doesn't strike you as a "little" high? That's what's turned me anti-rail.

um, hello? our city's brilliant planners of the past managed to jack up our freeway system by making onramps come before offramps and putting them so close together. that alone doomed us to bad traffic as the oahu's population grew. anything that allows even a small percentage of would-be drivers out of the atrocity of our urban freeway system (like rail would) would make a significant impact.

If you think that quality of planning is only a thing of the past - you've got more faith then I. Is there anything you can point to that shows that today's local city planners are any better?

most everyone i know who lives on oahu AND needs to make a living on oahu* are pro-rail, and have been, since the nineties.

Funny, I'm having just the opposite experience. And they all fit your criteria.

[joshuatree]

Re: Rail Transit

The solution to the problem may well be private transit

We've had just private transit, the auto, for the last 50/60 years. It's proven that it doesn't scale very well. Time to diversify. Cyn made a very good analogy. To combat obesity, it's a multi prong approach.

Whatever gets people to use it.

I was actually asking you. What is your price point? Better yet, why not build rail, then make every highway a toll road for the city and state. Refill coffers, reduce traffic, and will get more people on public transit. Like you said, whatever gets people to use it right?

No, I think a simple "there's 5 empty seats, next 5 please" will do. Much like the airlines do at the gate.

So....how is this any different than how public transit is in operation right now? Is that not cattle treatment as you put it, "Next 5!!! Move along, nothing to see."

No, I don't expect to to "solve" the problem, but it's a matter of cost/benefit. $5.25M/car removed from traffic doesn't strike you as a "little" high? That's what's turned me anti-rail.

If we did an honest assessment of all the money ever put into roads, I can say with conviction that it's way more than $5.25M per car.