Honolulu Mayor's Race 2004 - Chapter 3

[pzarquon]

Re: Honolulu Mayor's Race 2004 - Chapter 3

Our latest Mufi sighting? He was chatting and eating a hot dog at Aloun Farms on Saturday, as families swarmed in search of the perfect pumpkin. Between this and seeing him at Walmart that first week, I'll give credit where credit is due: the man sure knows where to be seen. I don't think I've ever seen Bainum milling with the common people.

What the heck is going on? Now Mufi is ragging at Bainum because Bainum doesn't own a home on Oahu?

It's a pointed question, but one that can backfire. Given the family's assets, I suppose you could question his committment to Hawaii. But most folks won't see much deeper than, "Bainum rents!" And, well, I'm sorry to break it to Mufi, but lots and lots and lots of locals rent. People who were born and raised here often rent their homes and apartments their entire lives. I sincerely doubt I'll own a house in Honolulu.

Yes, the premium-priced Waikiki Landmark is a far cry from a walk-up dingbat in Makiki, but you don't want to come across as demonizing renters. Mufi and Bainum have a lot to distinguish themselves on issues... I'd recommend Mufi stick to those.

Sunday's entry of Ilind.net leaps to Bainum's defense.

I don't know if I'd call it a defense of Bainum so much as a reality check - a thoughtful reminder of what incomplete sources, messy family disputes and reporting bias might do to a story. I have to admit, even though I feel Jennifer Bainum's pre-Bainum affairs are irrelevant to the mayor's race, the article was shocking. Ian's second look brought some perspective:

First, anyone who has been involved directly or indirectly in a family meltdown over a disputed inheritance should be wary of any tale told from a single perspective, as Zimmerman's story is... Second, Zimmerman's writing doesn't lend itself to a critical stance... And, third, Zimmerman quotes extensively from documents filed in court records, but loses track of the fact that the court reviewed those same documents and apparently came to different conclusions than she would.

[lillian l. hong]

Re: Honolulu Mayor's Race 2004 - Chapter 3

Hi, everyone,
I am still here. I was a vendor at the "Taste of China" last weekend at the NBC. Mufi also had a booth, I did not see Dr. Bainum's booth. I saw Mufi came in with Gail, his wife. I was with my customers.
Later that night, My husband told me that both came by our booth and shook his hand at different time, and went thru all booths also. I did not see them. My husband said I was with some customers talking.
I am still watching TV and reading newspapers about the 2 mayoral candidates. Some of my customers also talked to me about them. I am still undecided. How about you?
Please take good care of yourself and your loved ones.
Love, Lillian Hong
P.S. I am doing very little from Olelo. I am completely off air since September 18, 2004. I am very busy with my trade. Hoping I'll be back in 2005.

[mel]

Re: Honolulu Mayor's Race 2004 - Chapter 3

Anyone watch the televised debate last night on KITV 4?

I did. Listened intently and am still undecided about whether or not I should cast a vote for either candidate or just go for a "blank vote" on this race.

Here are some concerns: (Taken from this article in today's Honolulu Star-Bulletin)

Both also would not say whether they would lower property tax rates during a time of skyrocketing assessments.

"I'm not ready to make that commitment yet," Hannemann said. "I've always said that the next mayor really has to get a better handle on what our debt is, what (our) finances are really like."

Bainum believes "that's unlikely," he said. "I don't want to create false hopes for people. But certainly if we find ourselves in that position, I'd be happy to lower tax rates."

Both candidates are uncomitted to at least putting a hold on property tax rates. This is the terrible legacy that they will inherit from the Harris administration as all the debts come due for those many ridiculous (BRT, fake waterfalls, Natatorium, etc.) capitol improvement projects.

Both candidates refused to sign ATR's Taxpayer Protection Pledge, but then I should not be surprised. They are Democrats even though this is officially a "non-partisan" election.

Of course my biggest issue about both candidates is the rail transit. As a longtime opponent of this potentially expensive and tax sucking debaucle, I have a difficult time supporting either candidate because a vote for any of them is a vote for rail. The last cost figure I heard on this project is that it will be something like $22 billion just to build it.

A page out of Mufi's book brings this question to me.

Do we need rail? No. Studies have shown that 10% or less of the population actually use mass transit. I look at pictures of places such as New York City which has had rail transit for at least a hundred years. Doesn't look like it has solved any traffic problems there. The streets of New York are always filled with traffic even if most of the people do not own cars and use their mass transit.

Can the city afford it? Definitely not without some dire impact to taxpayer wallets.

Can the city maintain it? The city has had a poor record of maintaining just about everything it has built. The cost for maintenance and debt service on any rail project will be devastatingly high.

Because of rail I have not been enamored to any of these candidates.

I am sure that after I post this, the raving liberal majority and the environmentalists on this board will come after me like a ton of bricks as they normally do to all conservatives here at this site.

This is the norm for this place. The number of posts supporting the liberal viewpoints on many topics bear this out. There is hardly any room for fiscally conservative or generally conservative viewpoints at all here. We are outnumbered.

The liberals around here love that sucking sound of taxes being scooped out of everyone's wallets. That is the liberal mantra.

[pzarquon]

Re: Honolulu Mayor's Race 2004 - Chapter 3

Once again, an otherwise perfectly reasonable, thoughtful, provocative post on an issue that preemptively and presumptuously dismisses and discourages any contrary opinions via a blanket stereotype applied to those that might express them. Disappointing.

I love that you have a minority opinion. I just wish you didn't have to prematurely tar the supposed majority. Especially since it disregards the good contributions of other conservatives - fiscal or otherwise - we've got here.

[mel]

Re: Honolulu Mayor's Race 2004 - Chapter 3

Just look at all the left leaning liberal posts on this board. They vastly outnumber conservative viewpoints.

[pzarquon]

Re: Honolulu Mayor's Race 2004 - Chapter 3

Just look at all the left leaning liberal posts on this board. They vastly outnumber conservative viewpoints.

"Vastly" is relative, but accepting that assertion for the sake of argument, wouldn't you agree it would be more constructive to express why a weak stance on taxes and mass transit are problematic to you, without adding, "But I know you will all disagree because you're liberals!"

We've had this conversation at least half a dozen times already. If you are confident in your views, you shouldn't have to couch them in insults against those who haven't even disagreed with you yet. We're here to have a conversation, or a debate... so what's the point of making a statement that essentially also says, "I don't care what anyone else thinks."

Try this. Just re-read your post up to, "Because of rail I have not been enamored to any of these candidates." Excellently expressed. I was all ready to reply. But everything that followed made any response pointless (unless that was your intent?). At best, playing the "overwhelmed minority" again weakened your argument, at worst, it was baiting.

And yes, Mel, there will be people who will take the bait. Yes, there will be liberals who will dismiss your views on any issue because of your overall outlook. But not everyone here is like that. And I know you're better than that. Neither of us should "feed the trolls," as they say.

Okay. I might be more liberal than you, I might even be more supportive of mass transit (but not the BRT boondoggle). Yet I also agree that Harris has spent us, and our kids, into debt with useless projects that almost guarantee more, not fewer, taxes. We could've explored that here. Nothing is black and white. That's what makes life interesting. So why was it neccessary to put down everyone else here on this site? Or if you didn't want to hear what others had to say, why post it to a "message board" in the first place?

No, clearly you wanted a reaction, but you wanted to frame it instantly as "the raving liberal majority and the environmentalists on this board" coming after you "like a ton of bricks."

I wish there would have been an opportunity to interact. Instead, my reply is dismissed before I can even type it. You're waiting for the bricks, so whatever I say is an attacking volley. Like I said, it's disappointing.

[mel]

Re: Honolulu Mayor's Race 2004 - Chapter 3

It's called a pre-emptive strike. Gotta do that over here. The other few conservatives on this board are constantly knocked down by the vocal majority with liberal viewpoints.

That is the fact over here.

On political issues one cannot escape this fact on this board. The numbers and even topic subjects related to political issues all bear this out. Right here in this Hawaii Hall topic someone just started a topic about the U.S. being cursed by the right wing which is inline with all the Bush bashing, Kerry praising and other liberal supporting topics either started or supported over here. That is why there is a broad picture in my viewpoint.

Somehow I gather the liberals are troubled by this. But being in the minority viewpoint I have to express this opinion because everything else will just "fall on me like a ton of bricks." The minority viewpoint has to survive somehow in this sea of liberals.

Getting back to the mayor's race here, anyone who is elected will spell gloom and doom for all the taxpayers in Honolulu and possibly Hawaii, especially if rail is built. The most likely winner of the Mayor's race will be Bainum and he will fast track this rail down into our aching wallets faster than we can scream "tax increase."

Fiscal conservatives anywhere? Not at the top spot in city hall. Not very much at this board either.

Very sad.

Last post of the day, gotta go to work. Will be back much later. If ever to this topic. Meanwhile, bash, bash, bash. Have fun folks.

[pzarquon]

Re: Honolulu Mayor's Race 2004 - Chapter 3

Pre-emptive strike? You said it, Mel. It is sad.

You're making it about this board, and its members, rather than about the issues. Thinking about it, I think that's what bothers me most. If you go looking for it, sure, you'll find liberals on the attack and conservative martyrs. But that doesn't mean you have to turn every conversation into a Good v. Evil battle.

For crying out loud, the mayoral race is nonpartisan. And if you've been following this discussion at all, Bainum and Hanneman both have their share of fans and critics here. No one is spared. Why throw out the "rabid liberal" card at all?

I guess I'm just not expressing myself well is all. I like what you have to say, but wish you didn't have to say it with such pessimism. Yes, on the topic of the Honolulu mayor's race, there's a lot to say. But once again you sign off with more baiting, and add, "I might not even come back!"

So I guess there's something else I agree with you on. What's the point?

Anyone else want to parse the mayoral candidates and their debate performances? Was the question of who they voted for in the presidential election relevant? Who ended up on defense, overall, and who on offense? Who seemed more at ease? And... do you think they'll go on their karaoke date anytime soon?

[Linkmeister]

Re: Honolulu Mayor's Race 2004 - Chapter 3

You know, I never met a liberal who particularly liked paying taxes any more than a conservative. But many of us do think that it's the price you pay for a civil society, so we're less likely to whine about it.

If you don't like rail (and I liked it a lot better 15 years ago than I do now), what alternative would you propose, Mel? More roads? Traffic is miserable now; more concrete seems unlikely to be any kind of a long term solution. So what might work?

[pzarquon]

Re: Honolulu Mayor's Race 2004 - Chapter 3

Here's Burl Burlingame's take on last night's match up. Man, I hope "moofin'" doesn't become a word. In short?

Bainum's summation can be capsulized as, "What ails Honolulu may be successfully treated with a regularly applied program of fiscal hygiene and professionally doled dosages of properly measured medications," while Hannemann's can be summed up as "Localz RULE!"

[LikaNui]

Re: Honolulu Mayor's Race 2004 - Chapter 3

>> Was the question of who they voted for in the presidential election relevant? <<

Sort of, though it should've been obvious to the questioner (I think Keoki asked that one) that for political reasons neither of them would answer it. If it was me, I wouldn't have answered either, mainly because it would be dumb to endorse one, have the other one win, and then fight an uphill battle to deal with the winner. Kinda like when Evan Dobelle loudly endorsed Mazie Hirono (Linda Lingle's opponent) for Governor; that was a really dumb move.

>> Who ended up on defense, overall, and who on offense? <<

Neither was particularly offensive (at least, not in the way you mean!), I thought Bainum was more defensive, and I thought Mufi won the debate.

>> Who seemed more at ease? <<

Mufi, definitely. Duke looked extremely uncomfortable, highlighted by blinking his eyes extremely rapidly all during the debate. Nervous as hell.

>> And... do you think they'll go on their karaoke date anytime soon? <<

One can only hope not!


Gotta say, I was kind of on the fence before the debate, but it did help me make a final decision.

[pzarquon]

Re: Honolulu Mayor's Race 2004 - Chapter 3

Sort of, though it should've been obvious to the questioner (I think Keoki asked that one) that for political reasons neither of them would answer it.

Exactly. Not only is it poor politics in general, but Hawaii has the very fresh Dobelle-Hirono example to use as Exhibit Number One. Endorsements, except in the most locked-up races, are bad news waiting to happen.

I thought Bainum was more defensive, and I thought Mufi won the debate.

I favor Bainum, if only in the way I favor a bee sting over a dog bite, but I agree, in all the match-ups I've seen, Mufi has really been at ease and in his element. I can only imagine his more extensive interaction with the public - even if it is pressing the flesh at WalMart and pumpkin patches - help quite a bit.

Brains and ability are important, but politics is at least half showmanship. Whether you think Mufi's more car salesman or lovable schmo, you gotta admit, he "connects" with people.

By the way, it looks to me like the TV ads have gone back to the "light and frothy" variety. I guess I'll take them over attack ads. But I'm not sure which does a worse job of making a strong impression: Bainum's set-to-music biography slideshow or Mufi and his wife's uneven "let's do this in one take" smarm-fest.

[BKHale2007]

Re: Honolulu Mayor's Race 2004 - Chapter 3

I hope I'm quoting this right:

She likes classical jazz, I like music from the sixties and seventies

Music from those decades could encompass anything from the Supremes to Black Sabbath. Is Mufi being coy about his musical taste or does he have really diverse tastes in music?

[LikaNui]

Re: Honolulu Mayor's Race 2004 - Chapter 3

I also meant to add that I was less than impressed with the questions that were asked by the panel. Some of the questions were in the class of "What's your favorite color?", almost.
I felt the best questions were the ones submitted by e-mail from the public!

[Linkmeister]

Re: Honolulu Mayor's Race 2004 - Chapter 3

I hope I'm quoting this right:

She likes classical jazz, I like music from the sixties and seventies

Music from those decades could encompass anything from the Supremes to Black Sabbath. Is Mufi being coy about his musical taste or does he have really diverse tastes in music?

Why stop with Motown and metal? The Lettermen, Peter Paul and Mary, Dylan...