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  • #16
    Re: Aloha Tower Marketplace

    Originally posted by Frankie's Market View Post
    I don't have data on that. But then again, any person who actually goes into Waikiki with functioning eyesight can see that truth for themselves rather easily.
    OK, so with this, you admit that your only evidence for your statement regarding foot traffic in Waikiki is anecdotal, and thus should be considered with that caveat. That's fine with me. On to the tourist-spending points...

    Your quote from the S-A article of 1/30/11:
    By comparison, the average spending for all Hawaii tourists averages just $178 per day, according to the HTA.
    is too vague. If you wish to support a claim of Chinese & Japanese tourists spending more per capita than Mainland tourists, then you need to show comparative figures of those three distinct groups, not just two of them against "all" tourists. (Again, I'm not saying you are wrong, just that you are not showing clear proof to support your assumption.)

    In this later article from Pacific Business News, dated 10/25/11, you will also find these statements:
    Total visitor spending rose almost 20 percent to top $1 billion in September, as visitors from the West Coast, Japan and Canada increased their average daily spending, the Hawaii Tourism Authority said.
    Per-person spending in September rose 12.6 percent to $198.60 per day, compared to $176.40 per day in September 2010. Much of that was due to increases in average daily spending by Mainland, Canadian and Japanese visitors.
    It also goes on to speak of "the continued increase in Japanese visitor spending."

    Still not conclusive proof, and just as vague as your own supporting argument. So I offer this very recent PBN article, dated 11/29/12, which states clearly that Japan has just recently (October) become Hawaii’s second largest visitor market, after the U.S. West Coast market, and only now just ahead of the U.S. East Coast market.

    Key points from the article ---
    Visitor arrivals from each market, October 2012:
    U.S. Mainland - 374,401 (255,602 West Coast + 118,799 East Coast)
    Japan - 125,742

    Total visitor expenditures from each market:
    U.S. Mainland - $627.1 million ($381.7 m West Coast + $245.4 m East Coast)
    Japan - $236.4 million

    I believe that the above figures show that U.S. Mainland visitors spend more money in Hawai`i than those from Japan.

    Comment


    • #17
      Re: Aloha Tower Marketplace

      "The plan calls for retail and restaurants below, and dorm space above. The former Maritime Center at Pier 7 would become an HPU faculty and alumni center, and Pier 10 would house a sports and entertainment complex. The university and its agents would oversee property management."

      "HPU and the Aloha Tower Development Corp. plan to meet again in mid-December to further discuss the project."

      http://www.hawaiinewsnow.com/story/2...er-marketplace

      This great news to me that the closed for years Maritime Center will no longer be of any concern to the Bishop Museum.
      It still costs the museum money, man power and still at this point we receive alarm calls for doors, etc. Fingers crossed!
      Life is either an adventure... or you're not doing it right!!!

      Comment


      • #18
        Re: Aloha Tower Marketplace

        Given the poor state of the present use of the site, i have to agree that HPU taking it entirely over sounds like a good thing. I am sure they will continue to lease at least the ground floors for commercial and hopefully leave the two patio like observation areas as is and open to the public.
        I'm still here. Are you?

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        • #19
          Re: Aloha Tower Marketplace

          I imagine a lot of the HPU students hope it does become dorm rooms, since they'd be directly above Gordon Biersch... and Hooters.
          As for International Market Place, I remember going there in 1961 or 1962 when it was full of real Hawaiian items, not the awful junk that's in there now. And this was when the Royal Hawaiian Hotel had those beautiful old gardens that have been destroyed and covered with the Royal Hawaiian Marketplace.
          As for who spends more, I'll just remind you that things are drastically cheaper here than in Japan, to the point where Japan now offers weekly trips here solely designed around shopping excursions.
          .
          .

          That's my story, and I'm sticking to it.

          Comment


          • #20
            Re: Aloha Tower Marketplace

            Originally posted by Leo Lakio View Post
            Your quote from the S-A article of 1/30/11: is too vague. If you wish to support a claim of Chinese & Japanese tourists spending more per capita than Mainland tourists, then you need to show comparative figures of those three distinct groups, not just two of them against "all" tourists. (Again, I'm not saying you are wrong, just that you are not showing clear proof to support your assumption.)
            Leo, you asked for data that would support my statement that Chinese and Japanese tourists spend more than other visitors. I provided that through an article where the context is made clear that those groups spend more than the others. If you're going to insist that the failure of that article to provide a spending average for every other specific group will arguably leave open the possibility that mainlanders or some other group spend more on average, then that's all fine and good. I've no desire to carry on a debate over something that is plainly obvious to anyone who actually works with tourists on a daily basis.
            Last edited by Frankie's Market; December 5, 2012, 11:14 PM.
            This post may contain an opinion that may conflict with your opinion. Do not take it personal. Polite discussion of difference of opinion is welcome.

            Comment


            • #21
              Re: Aloha Tower Marketplace

              Originally posted by matapule View Post
              The last time I visited IMP was 2005. It was a pretty depressing place with a lot of junk merchandise.
              Originally posted by LikaNui View Post
              As for International Market Place, I remember going there in 1961 or 1962 when it was full of real Hawaiian items, not the awful junk that's in there now.
              Originally posted by Frankie's Market View Post
              One man's "junk" is another man's treasure, as the old saying goes.
              Careful there Lika Nuki, you and I have both been "proven" wrong by one FM.
              Peace, Love, and Local Grindz

              People who form FIRM opinions with so little knowledge only pretend to be open-minded. They select their facts like food from a buffet. David R. Dow

              Comment


              • #22
                Re: Aloha Tower Marketplace

                Originally posted by Frankie's Market View Post
                I've no desire to carry on a debate over something that is plainly obvious to anyone who actually works with tourists on a daily basis.
                Snicker, snicker.......giggle, giggle..........ROTFLMAO.......

                Sorry Frankie, but the devil made me do this.
                Peace, Love, and Local Grindz

                People who form FIRM opinions with so little knowledge only pretend to be open-minded. They select their facts like food from a buffet. David R. Dow

                Comment


                • #23
                  Re: Aloha Tower Marketplace

                  Originally posted by Frankie's Market View Post
                  ... something that is plainly obvious to anyone who actually works with tourists on a daily basis.
                  Again, you admit to your statements being based upon anecdotal evidence, such as that quoted above.

                  Remember, I regularly said I was not saying you were wrong - in fact, my initial gut reaction was to agree with you on this, but I wanted proof, solid data that was more measurable than my gut or your conjecture. The data I quoted ($627.1 million spent by Mainland visitors in one month vs. $236.4 million spent by Japanese visitors; Chinese guests not listed by HTA as they were a smaller-spending group than the other two) seems to emphasize that you may have been in error, while the data you put forward did not fully support your belief (by failing to show Mainland visitor figures in comparison - a key part of your argument).

                  Apparently, your signature line's statement of "polite discussion of difference of opinion is welcome" is not always the case. Let the record show that I kept it polite throughout, and we now move on.
                  Last edited by Leo Lakio; December 6, 2012, 06:23 AM.

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Re: Aloha Tower Marketplace

                    Originally posted by Leo Lakio View Post
                    Again, you admit to your statements being based upon anecdotal evidence, such as that quoted above.
                    If you're going to lump stats put out by HTA as being nothing more than "anecdotal evidence," then so be it.

                    Originally posted by Leo Lakio View Post
                    Remember, I regularly said I was not saying you were wrong - in fact, my initial gut reaction was to agree with you on this, but I wanted proof, solid data that was more measurable than my gut or your conjecture. The data I quoted ($627.1 million spent by Mainland visitors in one month vs. $236.4 million spent by Japanese visitors; Chinese guests not listed by HTA as they were a smaller-spending group than the other two) seems to emphasize that you may have been in error,
                    As I said before, I was talking about spending per tourist, not gross figures.

                    Originally posted by Leo Lakio View Post
                    Apparently, your signature line's statement of "polite discussion of difference of opinion is welcome" is not always the case.
                    How is that so in this thread, Leo? Even though I don't agree with all your statements, did I not say "that's all fine and good" when commenting on your viewpoint?

                    Or does your definition of politeness means that I can't express a viewpoint that differs from yours.

                    Originally posted by Leo Lakio View Post
                    Let the record show that I kept it polite throughout,
                    As did I, Leo.
                    This post may contain an opinion that may conflict with your opinion. Do not take it personal. Polite discussion of difference of opinion is welcome.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Re: Aloha Tower Marketplace

                      Originally posted by matapule View Post
                      Careful there Lika Nuki, you and I have both been "proven" wrong by one FM.
                      I see that my observations about the IMP has somehow upset you.

                      But as I told Leo above, I'm not going to hide whatever viewpoint I may have, however contrary it may be with what you or anybody else may think.

                      Think about this for a moment, though. All of the vendors in the IMP have rent and expenses they have to pay. All of them are trying to make as much money as they can to feed their families. Ergo, the merchandise they are trying to hawk is helping them to accomplish these goals. If they were totally valueless "junk" that tourists didn't want, the merchants wouldn't waste their time and tie-up their cash flow purchasing and trying to unload items that aren't selling, would they? It's no different than Walmart stocking crateloads of whatever latest CD Justin Bieber has released. Whatever artistic merits (or lack thereof) you attach to the music that today's teen idols are putting out, it sells and makes money. That is all that matters to Walmart. And the same goes for those IMP vendors.

                      I'm not engaged in this discussion in order to get into a pissing match about who's personal tastes are superior. Taking a step backward to look at the title, it is about the problems (primarily business in nature) that Aloha Tower Marketplace faces. Hence, my posting on this matter, which were intended to be more business-minded. But if you are more concerned with issues having to do with the aesthetics of what tourists are purchasing, then I gladly defer to whatever criticism and judgements you want to hand out in that area.
                      Last edited by Frankie's Market; December 6, 2012, 09:55 AM.
                      This post may contain an opinion that may conflict with your opinion. Do not take it personal. Polite discussion of difference of opinion is welcome.

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Re: Aloha Tower Marketplace

                        Originally posted by Frankie's Market View Post
                        I've no desire to carry on a debate ...
                        Originally posted by Leo Lakio View Post
                        ... and we now move on.
                        Well, some of us do anyway (while others prove that matapule had good reason to laugh).

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Re: Aloha Tower Marketplace

                          Originally posted by Frankie's Market View Post
                          it sells and makes money. That is all that matters to Walmart.
                          Considering how often WalMart has chosen not to stock certain music releases that are guaranteed to sell and make money shows it not to be that simple.

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Re: Aloha Tower Marketplace

                            Originally posted by Leo Lakio View Post
                            Considering how often WalMart has chosen not to stock certain music releases that are guaranteed to sell and make money shows it not to be that simple.
                            You've totally missed my point.

                            My illustration about Walmart ordering and selling Justin Bieber CDs in large numbers wasn't to make a case that Walmart will sell absolutely anything and everything to make a buck. I was making the point that the big box retailer's purchasing decisions regarding music products are based more on commercials considerations rather than artistic merit and critical acclaim. This is why consumers will see a larger number of Justin Bieber discs on Walmart's shelf, compared to that for Luciano Pavarotti. And so it is with IMP vendors who may be selling souvenirs that locals here might find crass or inauthentic.... but it's the kind of stuff that tourists eagerly snap up.

                            That you didn't "get" my point here.... honestly, it's like we're thinking on different wavelengths.
                            Last edited by Frankie's Market; December 7, 2012, 12:45 AM.
                            This post may contain an opinion that may conflict with your opinion. Do not take it personal. Polite discussion of difference of opinion is welcome.

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Re: Aloha Tower Marketplace

                              Originally posted by Frankie's Market View Post
                              That you didn't "get" my point here.... honestly, it's like we're thinking on different wavelengths.
                              It's a "Rashomon" thing, brah. We see different "truths," but each perspective is still "true." None is more right or wrong than the other. You're one of the people here I can trust to understand and accept that. <insert handshake icon here>

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Re: Aloha Tower Marketplace

                                Originally posted by Leo Lakio View Post
                                <insert handshake icon here>
                                You might want to include a hand sanitizer icon as well, just to be safe.
                                https://www.facebook.com/Bobby-Ingan...5875444640256/

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