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Digital TV Over The Air

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  • Re: Digital TV Over The Air

    Aloha from the mainland. I was out in Kaneohe last month visiting my wife's family and tried to setup OTA for my in-laws HD ready monitor. Here's a run down of my experience. First, it took 3 different Radio Shacks to finally find one that stocked an antenna at a 30% premium compared to CA (built one out of coathangers in the interim just to check signal and succeeded getting ION out of Kailua). When I used the Shack's v90 antenna, I got ABC (9.1) and the 4 ION channels. I returned a month later with a PCT signal booster from ebay. This gave me CBS, FOX, and WB, on top of my other channels from before. The tuner I used was a Sony Direct TV receiver. I've never used the store bought boxes because they don't do Hi-Def. Normally, I use Samsung instead of Sony receivers because they are superior. Samsung's have a signal strength meter, Sony's don't, and I find the Samsung tuner more sensitive in general. If I continue doing this, I'd return with a Sammy. However, my in-laws do have cable, so it might be easier just to get them a Kworld QAM tuner for the Hi-Def. Still, if you want to break the Oceanic Monopoly (or start a side business) it is possible to get Hi-Def over the Pali. Let me know if you need more info. I've done a half dozen of these transitions, including using just a computer monitor. No one should have to pay for TV.
    Total cost for this experiment was about $180.

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    • Re: Digital TV Over The Air

      Originally posted by toddk968 View Post
      This afternoon, I received KOGG on their DTV channel 16 from Molokai Lookout on Oahu and it displayed as 13.1. I also picked up KGMV DTV 24 (9.1) and KWHM (don't recall their DTV channel at the moment).
      BTW, how can you tell their DTV channels (e.g., KOGG is 16, though my RCA converter box display it as 13-1)?
      Beijing 8-08-08 to 8-24-08

      Tiananmen Square 4-15-89 to 6-04-89

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      • Re: Digital TV Over The Air

        Originally posted by KGMB9 View Post
        There's also been talks about data access, like WiFi (but being an IT guy, it doesn't make much sense).
        Interesting. What would the max data rate be at those VHF/UHF xmt frequencies? When I think of 'WiFi', I think 2.4/5 GHz and 11-54 Mbps.

        Originally posted by KGMB9
        It's like audio... Can you hear outside of 20Hz - 20KHz audio (CD)? Can you tell 1080p from 720p? What population can tell?
        Exactly.
        The "population" somehow needs to be more educated in the matter of screen size vs. resolution/pixels vs. viewing distance...lord knows the sales folks won't do it.

        I had a friend ask me to go with him to Sears here on Maui. They had an area with a little "Home Theater" setup using a 50" 1080P Sony fed from Blu-Ray and a couch 5-6 ft. away for seating. We both agreed it looked great and he was ready to shell out ~5 grand for the whole system.
        I asked him where he was going to mount the display in his house and how far away the nearest seat would be. He replied "on the wall" and all the seats would be from 10 to 15 ft. away. I asked if there would -ever- be a possibility that someone would sit closer and he said "never".
        I told him that he wouldn't be able to tell the difference between a 720P display at that distance and he seemed almost resentful that I saved him ~$3,000.<g>

        --Michael
        Attached Files

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        • Re: Digital TV Over The Air

          Originally posted by Doctah View Post
          Sorry to nudge, but any thoughts on my Oceanic/channel position question? It still bugs me that Oceanic doesn't put stations on their proper channel number. And I assume it bugs KHON, KITV and KGMB (whereas KHNL folded and adopted its Oceanic channel number -- even though it was already on VHF over the air!)
          Just for grins, does anyone else remember when KHNL sold their Channel 2 (7 on Maui) allotment to FOX when they came into existence?

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          • Re: Digital TV Over The Air

            Originally posted by ongre View Post
            My question is about the ch.15 KOGG signal I get nothing in that spot and wonder if anyone else receiving the new Ulupalakua site is picking up a KHNL station.
            I'm off Lower Main St. (behind sand hill) and I put up a RadioShack VU-120 antenna I had sitting here for 5 years. I sprayed all the cross-connections with Caig De-Oxit and put it on a 6' mast on top of 10' carport roof.

            The Digital Stream DTX9950 box picked up every channel but 15. I 'direct entered' 16 and the on-screen signal meter said strength was 7-15 whereas Ch.24 (9.1) was in the 80-90s and Ch.4.1 was 70-80s.
            I moved it over 6' and up 3' to the 'Ohana' roof and 15 is now in the 70s.
            2.1 is the lowest in the 60s and that was the best I could get it after moving forward/back and up/down while repointing.
            I also tried a RCA DTA800B1 and DTV Pal box with similar results.

            Since I need to split the signal 3 ways and will have a total of ~120 ft. of RG6 cable, I'm going to order a CM-7777 Pre-amp ($52 from SolidSignal.com) since that pre-amp has the lowest UHF Noise Figure.

            Turns out that the ATSC tuner in the DirecTV HR20 DVR seems to work very well which is great since I get HDTV outputs and all the DVR 'tricks'. Channel assignment is totally screwed up (KHNL-HD is really on 13-1 KHVODT) but no problem but once you figure it out.
            Looks like I'll be able to watch the Super Bowl in HD...hard to believe!

            --Michael

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            • Re: Digital TV Over The Air

              Originally posted by mred1269 View Post
              it is possible to get Hi-Def over the Pali.
              From Honolulu? Depending on the location you can get a knife-edge effect and a surprisingly strong signal.

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              • Re: Digital TV Over The Air

                If I do take a Samsung receiver with me next time I'm out. I'll try to post some signal strength information.

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                • Re: Digital TV Over The Air

                  Originally posted by GeckoGeek View Post
                  From Honolulu? Depending on the location you can get a knife-edge effect and a surprisingly strong signal.
                  I don't think there is a repeater in Kaneohe or Kailua.

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                  • Re: Digital TV Over The Air

                    Originally posted by Random View Post
                    BTW, how can you tell their DTV channels (e.g., KOGG is 16, though my RCA converter box display it as 13-1)?
                    After tuning in KOGG 13.1, I entered the manual tuning mode of the DTV converter and it showed it was tuned to RF channel 16.
                    Last edited by toddk968; January 25, 2009, 08:18 PM.

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                    • Re: Digital TV Over The Air

                      Originally posted by mred1269 View Post
                      I don't think there is a repeater in Kaneohe or Kailua.
                      I don't think so either. But that's not what I said.

                      Normally radio signals don't go though mountains and something like the Koolaus would be an impossible barrier.

                      However, because they come to a rather sharp (narrow) edge at the top, something strange happens. The Knife-edge effect comes into play. Signals passing just over the edge get bent downward. So depending on your location, you may be able to receive some Honolulu stations just fine.

                      Note that "narrow" is a relative term. The tops of the Koolaus are narrow for VHF. I'm not sure as they are all that narrow at UHF frequencies because of the shorter wavelength.

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                      • Re: Digital TV Over The Air

                        Primer on diffraction (and skyline multi-path).

                        http://www.hdtvprimer.com/ANTENNAS/siting.html

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                        • Re: Digital TV Over The Air

                          I have a question to reps for KITV and KHNL.

                          Respective channels 4.3 and 13.2 are blanks. I scanned 4.3 and it gives me the No Signal error dialog. 13.2 is listed as TBA.

                          Do you have plans for these "vacant" channels within 12 months since the transition?
                          Beijing 8-08-08 to 8-24-08

                          Tiananmen Square 4-15-89 to 6-04-89

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                          • Re: Digital TV Over The Air

                            Random,

                            We have no immediate plans for 4.3 and will be removing it from psip.

                            Mike

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                            • Re: Digital TV Over The Air

                              Originally posted by KGMB9 View Post
                              Can you tell 1080p from 720p? What population can tell?
                              I agree that many people won't be able to tell, particularly those with smaller screens/longer viewing distances. But there are some of us who can tell. I have a 70" screen and my seating is 8-10 ft. from it. I can definitely tell the difference between 720p, 1080i, and Blu-ray at 1080p. Admittedly, I'm an exception and not the rule.
                              No, I'm not the Larry Price, I just happen to have the same name.

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                              • Re: Digital TV Over The Air

                                Originally posted by tvhawaii View Post
                                Just for grins, does anyone else remember when KHNL sold their Channel 2 (7 on Maui) allotment to FOX when they came into existence?
                                Not sure what you mean. When Savoy/Fox bought KHON in 1996, they took away the Fox affiliation from KHNL and put it on their own Channel 2, since Fox was KHON's new co-owner. That's how KHNL took the NBC affiliation.

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