The 2008 Presidential Elections - Chapter 4

[cyleet99]

Re: The 2008 Presidential Elections - Chapter 4

Stop looking at the Presidency as your mother who is going to take care of you.

Absolutely, MP. I completely agree with you.

Also, please, tell us one thing Laura Bush has done with her 8 years as the most powerful woman in the world?

http://www.firstladies.org/biographi...x?biography=44

Nader didn't HAVE to use the phrase "Uncle Tom". I believe he could have made his point just fine without choosing that particular soundbyte.

You are correct; it was inflammatory wording. The attack on him by the journalist was uncalled for and mean; I loved his response.

[Walkoff Balk]

Re: The 2008 Presidential Elections - Chapter 4

Worst day of your life? Then you are one lucky guy. The "worst day of my life" is certainly a heady decision, and not even in the running is an election which is decided by electoral college votes.

I thought the worst day was on Saturday when UH lost to Utah St. Then, Punahou Guy was victorious to more than even things out until this Saturday when UH plays on the road again.

[Linkmeister]

Re: The 2008 Presidential Elections - Chapter 4

Nobel Prize winning economist, NYT columnist (and guy who's been right about the Bush Administration since 2001) Paul Krugman noticed that WSJ article linked above and responded:

Yes, George W. Bush’s status as the most disliked man ever to occupy the White House shows that America was not worthy of him. And attacks on Bush gave aid and comfort to his enemies — unlike the firehose of abuse that will be directed against President Obama, which will of course be an expression of true patriotism.

[cyleet99]

Re: The 2008 Presidential Elections - Chapter 4

[Okay, y'all. My DH wants to say something.

(Can we do this? Two posters under one name? Will DH be okay with my avatar? Will Mel and Ryan ban me?)

So heere's my other half!]

After the results last night, I sat back, lit a cigar and wasn't sure if I had sex or not. (Clinton definition) Though I am a Republican (Extinct in Hawaii), I was rather optimistic that the Dems were now in office and our financial future is in the hands of people like Barney Frank. Anyone who is clever enough to be able to get out of a political problem like his roommate running a gay bordello out of his Georgetown townhouse, might just be able to creatively solve some of the complex problems we now face.

The election is over. You guys take yourself way too seriously. Recognize the comedy and tragedy in both parties and start thinking like Americans so we can fix this stuff.

I will now go back in hiding so you folks be nice to my AF.

[Stephen]

Re: The 2008 Presidential Elections - Chapter 4

Matapule,

While I'm not trying to be a condescending pr*&k, I probably will come off as one.

A quick study of politics will teach you that the President's primary power is in his/her ability to set the national agenda. Last time I checked, it was Congress' responsiblity to originate, draft and pass legislation. And then, the President has the ability to sign or veto that legislation.

So to place the entirety of the blame on Bush's shoulders is, well short sighted.

While I agree with you that the money that is being spent/wasted/whatever in the Middle East has contributed to our growing debt, it is miniscule in it's effect on our current financial crisis. A great deal of the money that being spent in the Middle East is filtered right back into our economy via contracts with domestic producers (and I know there are some shady deals out there) and our soldiers.

Lax lending standards that originated with Bush 1 and Clinton, as well as the blessing during Clinton's presidency to allow financial institutions and insurance institutions to merge/practice both are the reason our economy is in the proverbial crapper.

The unwinnable conflict is an interesting topic. And another opportunity for a lesson in politics. The President does not have the ability to declare war - Congress, and 90% of the Congress voted for US intervention in Iraq, possesses the right to declare war. Do I think Bush looked at reports and somehow pulled the wool over Congress' eyes on the reports? Not really, because they saw the same reports. They were all equally fooled. And now we're in a sticky situation - but I can't see where it is even remotely a good idea to pull out. You can't start a fight and then walk away. Unless of course you want to foster an environment that allows someone like Hitler to sieze the day.

Bush has pretty much always been a pariah to Republicans, much like the recently defeated McCain. They are politically middle of the road on many issues, and that upsets the GOP establishment - not such a bad thing in my mind.

And Bush wasn't compared to Truman - he was said to be in good company with Truman based on upon approval ratings.

If we can't believe in ourselves regardless of who is in office, can we really believe in ourselves?

I am eager to see what Obama is able to accomplish. And he falls flat on his face, I will certainly have the class to not just trash him with reckless abandon.

Still Ragin

[Adri]

Re: The 2008 Presidential Elections - Chapter 4

I believe a large part of our current financial crisis has to do with the "free market" idea that our financial institutions did not need no stinkin' regulations, they could watchdog themselves just fine ('cept that they didn't). Currently, Alan Greenspan is being blamed for carrying out Bush W's free market policy. It was sad to watch Greenspan admit that his understanding of the market was not right.

[Linkmeister]

Re: The 2008 Presidential Elections - Chapter 4

Bush has pretty much always been a pariah to Republicans

You're kidding, right?

You can't really believe that.

Congressional Republicans have tied themselves to Bush and his agenda since 9/11, happily going along with every "security" measure he proposed (illegal wiretapping, contract overruns with no oversight, elimination of habeas corpus, torture, extraordinary rendition...I could go on for several hours of typing). They loved the man. They thought Karl Rove really could create a permanent Republican majority if they'd just follow where Bush led them, and they did. Repeatedly. To the great detriment of this country.

Have you observed nothing over the past 8 years?

[matapule]

Re: The 2008 Presidential Elections - Chapter 4

A quick study of politics will teach you that the President's primary power is in his/her ability to set the national agenda. Last time I checked, it was Congress' responsiblity to originate, draft and pass legislation. And then, the President has the ability to sign or veto that legislation.

Here is the problem. When Congress has passed legislation, Bush has declared which parts of those laws he is going to enforce and which he isn't. This is done through "signing statements." There have always been signing statements, but W is the first President to use them as a purported legal excuse not to enforce legislation that he doesn't agree with.

So to place the entirety of the blame on Bush's shoulders is, well short sighted.

That is correct. The blame must also fall on the shoulders of those people who voted for Bush in 2000 and 2004. Bush is a person very much like Sarah Palin in many respects. Not up to the job intellectually and appealing to the darker side of the American psyche.

A great deal of the money that being spent in the Middle East is filtered right back into our economy via contracts with domestic producers (and I know there are some shady deals out there) and our soldiers

Yes, and don't forget to mention Lehman Bros, Haliburton, AIG, as well as pumping up the economy of Middle Eastern potentates. Do I feel wealtheir today than I did 8 years ago? I won't even answer my own question.

Lax lending standards that originated with Bush 1 and Clinton, as well as the blessing during Clinton's presidency to allow financial institutions and insurance institutions to merge/practice both are the reason our economy is in the proverbial crapper.

W could have stopped it. The republicans had control of Congress for 6 years under W. W not only didn't put a stop to it, he expanded it to the point that we have had a complete meltdown.

The President does not have the ability to declare war - Congress, and 90% of the Congress voted for US intervention in Iraq, possesses the right to declare war. Do I think Bush looked at reports and somehow pulled the wool over Congress' eyes on the reports? Not really, because they saw the same reports. They were all equally fooled.

Ah, how soon you forget. War has never been declared in Iraq by an act of Congress. The Presidents staff - with the knowledge of W - influenced the CIA to write reports to justfy the Administration's agenda to invade Iraq. It worked very well. Those reports did fool people, unfortunately. This is not America's war, this is W's war.

And now we're in a sticky situation - but I can't see where it is even remotely a good idea to pull out. You can't start a fight and then walk away. Unless of course you want to foster an environment that allows someone like Hitler to sieze the day.

This is utter nonsense, ragin cajun nonsense. I've had enough of America's chip on the shoulder "bring it on" bravado. Sometimes you have to back down. In poker, you have to "know when to hold 'em and know when to fold 'em." We are holding a losing poker hand in Iraq. You probably weren't born during the VietNam war. Go back and read some history. We didn't win there. We got our butts kicked and we just walked out and left with our tails between our legs and with people hanging onto the skids of the helicopters. I lost good friends and buddies in VietNam like Herman Huebner. For what? Nothing! Where is the Hitler that took over VietNam? Today, VietNam is a US trading partner, Americans are welcome there, and the people of VietNam are much better off than they were under the corrupt government supported by Johnson and Nixon.

Yes, I support packing up the troops today and getting them out of Iraq and Afghanistan today. We did it before, we can do it again. "Mission Accomplished?" Hell no, nothing accomplished.

Bush has pretty much always been a pariah to Republicans, much like the recently defeated McCain. They are politically middle of the road on many issues, and that upsets the GOP establishment - not such a bad thing in my mind.

This paragraph is so nonsensical, you embarrass yourself. No need to commment on something that even neocon republicans wouldn't agree with you.

And Bush wasn't compared to Truman - he was said to be in good company with Truman based on upon approval ratings.

Only history can judge, not snapshot approval ratings.

If we can't believe in ourselves regardless of who is in office, can we really believe in ourselves?

The President is the symbol of the United States. We have been embarrassed as a nation for the last 8 years.

I am eager to see what Obama is able to accomplish. And he falls flat on his face, I will certainly have the class to not just trash him with reckless abandon.

Fine, but I will hold Obama to his promises. I will hold him accountable for his actions, just like any other President or Presidential candidate.

We, the citizens, are the government. We are respionsible for our future. YES WE CAN!

[matapule]

Re: The 2008 Presidential Elections - Chapter 4

I will now go back in hiding so you folks be nice to my AF.

You are a Coward! If you want to participate in HT, sign up for a screen name and participate.

[LikaNui]

Re: The 2008 Presidential Elections - Chapter 4

From CNN.com moments ago:

What was Gov. Sarah Palin's overall effect on the McCain campaign?

Positive... 21%... 38,299

Negative... 70%... 127,144

Neither... 9%... 15,388

Total Votes: 180,831

[Jake's Ohana]

Re: The 2008 Presidential Elections - Chapter 4

Questions:

Where has Cheney been hiding these passed 8 years? After "W's" administration took office, I think Cheney made a few blunders and went through his multiple cardio/stroke scare, and afterward, we never see or hear from him again. Perhaps all of the propaganda that he was linked to with the defense/security contracts did him in?

During the Clinton administration, Gore was working the streets, building relations on foreign soil, working with the tech industry, and focusing on global issues. Another words, we heard and watched Gore regularly during Clinton's admin.

I for one, don't have much political knowledge, but I just seem interested in knowing why Cheney fizzled out of the picture during W's reign - just my 2 cents.

[matapule]

Re: The 2008 Presidential Elections - Chapter 4

Questions:

Where has Cheney been hiding these passed 8 years?

Cheney was the invisible President of the United States for 7 1/2 years. He was the puppetmaster pulling W's strings. In the last few months he has cut and run from Bush and the left the puppet in a heap on the stage, all by his lonesome.

[Ron Whitfield]

Re: The 2008 Presidential Elections - Chapter 4

You're kidding, right?
You can't really believe that.
Congressional Republicans have tied themselves to Bush and his agenda since 9/11, happily going along with every "security" measure he proposed (illegal wiretapping, contract overruns with no oversight, elimination of habeas corpus, torture, extraordinary rendition...I could go on for several hours of typing). They loved the man. They thought Karl Rove really could create a permanent Republican majority if they'd just follow where Bush led them, and they did. Repeatedly. To the great detriment of this country.
Have you observed nothing over the past 8 years?

Thank you, LM!

I was rather optimistic that the Dems were now in office and our financial future is in the hands of people like Barney Frank.
The election is over. You guys take yourself way too seriously. Recognize the comedy and tragedy in both parties

Frank sucks, in many way's..., but if you think he's going to have any sway with this new administration, then have fun with it, on your own dime as the rest of us move on. But, I'd certainly take Frank over any republican any day. There's a new sheriff in town and garbage from the past is out, hopefully Reid and Pelosi as well.

What I want to know from those who like to spew this conservative crap, such as (after yet another deserved ass whipping...), "You guy's take yourselve's too seriously", just what the XXXX does that mean?

[Leo Lakio]

Re: The 2008 Presidential Elections - Chapter 4

[Okay, y'all. My DH wants to say something...

Okay - I admit I liked that post!

[Vanguard]

Re: The 2008 Presidential Elections - Chapter 4

Some incorrect predictions for the 2008 election