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The 2008 Presidential Elections - Chapter 3

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  • #16
    Re: The 2008 Presidential Elections - Chapter 3

    Originally posted by Vanguard View Post
    Wesley Clark
    Pros: Powerful military credentials
    Cons: Brash reputation may negate McCain's reputation for having a temper.
    I understand what you are saying regarding Wes’ “brash reputation,” but I think he has come a long way since 2004 election. Frankly, I don't think you can deny his foreign policy credentials even against a war hero like Jim Webb. Gen. Clark is the 4-star general who led the last successful U.S. military campaign in Kosovo. He also ran a multi-state campaign for U.S. President before bowing out, so he at least been somewhat vetted.

    Frankly, I believe Wes is the smartest candidate among all the VP hopefuls, and would shore up Obama’s weaknesses - in addition to being a top adviser for Hillary's now-defunct campaign, and thus represent an “Olive branch” to the Clintonistas. I think Obama gets the best of Hillary’s leadership team with Clark, and he can further placate her supporters by appointing her to the Supreme Court.

    We can’t be so fixated on our desire to preserve the rights of ordinary Americans.

    — U.S. President Bill Clinton
    USA TODAY, page 2A
    11 March 1993

    Comment


    • #17
      Re: The 2008 Presidential Elections - Chapter 3

      Originally posted by TuNnL View Post
      I understand what you are saying regarding Wes’ “brash reputation,” but I think he has come a long way since 2004 election.
      Agreed. I for one would be happy with an Obama/Clark match-up. I'm hoping the fact that he's come a long way will shine strongly if he's picked.

      Jon Stewart mocks "Hillary is inevitable" pandits. Ah, 2007 -- the time when Hillary vs. Giuliani made me want to Ralph

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      • #18
        Re: The 2008 Presidential Elections - Chapter 3

        Hillary Clinton as a Supreme Court Justice.........

        I'm so crackin up.
        FutureNewsNetwork.com
        Energy answers are already here.

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        • #19
          Re: The 2008 Presidential Elections - Chapter 3

          Hula dancers from Obama, Japan to dance in Obama's hometown

          Comment


          • #20
            Re: The 2008 Presidential Elections - Chapter 3

            Now that the page has finally been turned on the Clintons, the new sheriff in town is leaving his imprint on the Democratic Party.

            http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080606/...emocrats_money

            WASHINGTON - The Democratic National Committee, now operating under Barack Obama's fundraising rules, on Friday returned about $100,000 in money from lobbyists and political action committees.

            The donations were already "in the pipeline" when Obama, the presumed Democratic presidential nominee, instituted the standards for the committee, a party official said.

            Obama imposed the rules to avoid a conflict with his own ban on money from federal lobbyists and PACs. On Thursday he sent one of his top strategists to the DNC to help with its general election operation.

            Republican John McCain does accept money from lobbyists and PACs as does the Republican National Committee and other party committees.


            So both the Obama and the DNC will no longer be accepting money from lobbyists and PACs. I wonder if McCain and the Republicans will rise up to meeting that challenge?

            OH HO!!! Silly me! If McCain does that, a huge chunk of his campaign staff will be walking out on him.
            This post may contain an opinion that may conflict with your opinion. Do not take it personal. Polite discussion of difference of opinion is welcome.

            Comment


            • #21
              Re: The 2008 Presidential Elections - Chapter 3

              Originally posted by Frankie's Market View Post
              I wonder if McCain and the Republicans will rise up to meeting that challenge? ... If McCain does that, a huge chunk of his campaign staff will be walking out on him.
              Frankly, John McCain has more fundamental things to worry about, when nearly the entire Fox News anchor team rips his victory speech. If you’ve watched the actual June 3 McCain oration you can understand how even Faux Noise couldn’t find a kind word for the GOP presumptive nominee. I couldn’t even watch the whole speech, it was so painful! He would do well to find a VP who’s a more polished speaker, and have that person do most of the talking for the rest of the campaign. My prediction is 2008 will set a record for write-ins on the Republican ballot. (Go Ron Paul!)

              We can’t be so fixated on our desire to preserve the rights of ordinary Americans.

              — U.S. President Bill Clinton
              USA TODAY, page 2A
              11 March 1993

              Comment


              • #22
                Re: The 2008 Presidential Elections - Chapter 3

                Will Ron Paul be this election's Ralph Nader, the "spoiler" candidate that will be blamed for the loss of a major party's candidate?

                Will enough Republicans who dislike Sen. McCain actually refuse to vote for their party's man, thus giving the White House to a Democrat?

                And ... what does "Anybody But Obama" Scrivener have to say these days? Will he support the Libertarian candidate, former Georgia Republican Representative (and Clinton impeachment "manager") Bob Barr?

                Answers coming this fall.

                Comment


                • #23
                  Re: The 2008 Presidential Elections - Chapter 3

                  Originally posted by TuNnL View Post
                  Frankly, John McCain has more fundamental things to worry about,
                  More fundamental than trying to keep up with Obama in fundraising? Money is the lifeblood of any presidential campaign. So far, McCain has raised $115 million. Obama? More than double, at $264 million. And that figure doesn't even include the month of May, while McCain's figure does. With this significant monetary advantage, Obama's campaign could proceed with a 50 state strategy that would force McCain to spend his more limited funds where he doesn't want to (i.e. buying media advertising time in traditionally red states just to protect the GOP's base.)

                  Originally posted by TuNnL View Post
                  If you’ve watched the actual June 3 McCain oration you can understand how even Faux Noise couldn’t find a kind word for the GOP presumptive nominee. I couldn’t even watch the whole speech, it was so painful! He would do well to find a VP who’s a more polished speaker, and have that person do most of the talking for the rest of the campaign.
                  Problem is,... you can't have your veep candidate doing most of the talking and overshadowing the lead man on the ticket. It's only going to make McCain appear even weaker as a leader and standard bearer of his party. McCain's only hope of winning in November would be to appeal to independent voters who are looking for a strong and experienced commander-in-chief figure to be their President. And having someone like Mitt Romney or Mike Huckabee doing most of the talking for McCain isn't going to impress those voters.

                  The town hall forums that McCain's campaign has proposed is a good idea for their candidate. As you yourself alluded to, McCain just does not possess the oratory skills and physical presence on the podium that Obama has in spades. A town hall format would be more informal and spontaneous, which could help McCain. Or it could hurt,... if McCain starts slipping up on his facts. But the town hall setting at least gives McCain a fighting chance.
                  Last edited by Frankie's Market; June 8, 2008, 05:12 PM.
                  This post may contain an opinion that may conflict with your opinion. Do not take it personal. Polite discussion of difference of opinion is welcome.

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                  • #24
                    Re: The 2008 Presidential Elections - Chapter 3

                    Originally posted by Frankie's Market View Post
                    McCain just does not possess the oratory skills and physical presence on the podium that Obama has in spades.
                    Didn't seem to matter in Bush II vs. Kerry.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Re: The 2008 Presidential Elections - Chapter 3

                      Originally posted by Leo Lakio View Post
                      Didn't seem to matter in Bush II vs. Kerry.
                      Geez. If you can't recognize the stark differences in voter mood between 2004 and '08,....
                      This post may contain an opinion that may conflict with your opinion. Do not take it personal. Polite discussion of difference of opinion is welcome.

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Re: The 2008 Presidential Elections - Chapter 3

                        Originally posted by Frankie's Market View Post
                        Geez. If you can't recognize the stark differences in voter mood between 2004 and '08,....
                        Don't get your hopes up too high, FM. in 2004, Democrats foolishly assumed Bush would be easy to topple, due to all the problems to date, yet he handily won reelection without the help of the Supreme Court. Dems can't afford any complacency this round.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Re: The 2008 Presidential Elections - Chapter 3

                          Originally posted by Leo Lakio View Post
                          Don't get your hopes up too high, FM. in 2004, Democrats foolishly assumed Bush would be easy to topple, due to all the problems to date, yet he handily won reelection without the help of the Supreme Court. Dems can't afford any complacency this round.
                          In November of 2004, it was 18 months since "mission accomplished" in Iraq. Crude oil was hovering at about $50 per barrel. The American economy was robust, growing at 4.4% that year. With things running relatively smoothly on the economic/domestic front, voters allowed themselves to be swayed by the Swift Boat smear campaign, which did great damage to Kerry's chances.

                          Fast forward to June of 2008. It is now 61 months since mission accomplished. Oil hit an all-time high of $138 a barrel last Friday, with projections that it could surpass $150 by July. The spiraling price of oil is crippling virtually every segment of the economy, especially the airlines and the auto industries. There's the subprime mortgage crisis. The number of jobs has gone down five straight months.

                          Under these dire circumstances, I don't think voters will fall for another Karl Rove-type orchestrated smear campaign. Forget about how close the polls say it is between Obama and McCain now. To quote former Clinton strategist James Carville, "It's the economy, stupid." The election is Obama's to lose.
                          This post may contain an opinion that may conflict with your opinion. Do not take it personal. Polite discussion of difference of opinion is welcome.

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Re: The 2008 Presidential Elections - Chapter 3

                            Originally posted by Leo Lakio View Post
                            Don't get your hopes up too high, FM. in 2004, Democrats foolishly assumed Bush would be easy to topple, due to all the problems to date, yet he handily won reelection without the help of the Supreme Court. Dems can't afford any complacency this round.
                            I agree with the complacency statement. You never can take anything for granted. But I've always had a hard time accepting Bush won his 2004 re-election handily, yes he won the popular vote by a few million more and boasted he earned his "political capital" and was going to spend it. Let's not forget if Bush had not won the state of Ohio in 2004, John Kerry would be running for re-election right now as the incumbent president. So in theory Bush won two elections based on winning, I should say squeeking by in two states, Florida and Ohio. I won't get into the semantics and chicanery involved in those statewide elections because I think they have been talked to death by now. 1996 Clinton over Dole was the last Prez election in which the outcome was officially decided on the actual election night.

                            Aj

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                            • #29
                              Re: The 2008 Presidential Elections - Chapter 3

                              Originally posted by Frankie's Market View Post
                              More fundamental than trying to keep up with Obama in fundraising?
                              Yes. Fundraising is a direct result of donors and PACs faith in your ability to win. If they have no faith in you, they won’t give you any money. So, in a sense, if McCain expects to catch up in fundraising, he needs to focus on improving his viability as a candidate. And that means his ability to make victory speeches like the one he made June 3.

                              Originally posted by Frankie's Market View Post
                              McCain's only hope of winning in November would be to appeal to independent voters who are looking for a strong and experienced commander-in-chief figure to be their President. And having someone like Mitt Romney or Mike Huckabee doing most of the talking for McCain isn't going to impress those voters.
                              This is irrelevant, because McCain isn’t going to get the independent vote. This year marks the strongest field for independent Presidential candidates since Ross Perot. Let’s not forget that Obama has credited the internet as the centerpiece of his fundraising and grassroots network.

                              The only “internet-saavy” candidate that comes close to him is Ron Paul (who even thumps Hillary Clinton in this regard). Ron Paul is still the second most popular candidate on Youtube, despite having less videos up then Hillary Clinton. His $5 million in a single day fundraising effort on the internet set an all-time record. Governor Lingle and gang were so scared of him, they censored all Ron Paul supporters at the Hawai‘i GOP Convention. As I said before, Paul will set a record for the most amount of write-in votes in American history.

                              Also on the ballot are Ralph Nader (Green) and Bob Barr (Libertarian). These two candidates are the liberal and conservative flanks of the traditional “independent vote.” Right now, these two are polling a combined 8% of the vote.

                              We can’t be so fixated on our desire to preserve the rights of ordinary Americans.

                              — U.S. President Bill Clinton
                              USA TODAY, page 2A
                              11 March 1993

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Re: The 2008 Presidential Elections - Chapter 3

                                Originally posted by Frankie's Market View Post
                                voters allowed themselves to be swayed by the Swift Boat smear campaign, which did great damage to Kerry's chances. --- Under these dire circumstances, I don't think voters will fall for another Karl Rove-type orchestrated smear campaign. Forget about how close the polls say it is between Obama and McCain now. To quote former Clinton strategist James Carville, "It's the economy, stupid."
                                There's still five months left in the campaign - plenty of time for GOP strategists to pull out all kinds of Rovian maneuvers, nastier than any we've seen to date - and don't doubt that plenty of voters WILL fall for them.

                                And if the rising price of oil will be the top issue in November, then Sen. McCain will have the advantage; he and Sen. Clinton are supportive of a "gas tax holiday" over the summer months, while Sen. Obama opposes it. Which plan do you think will win over voters?

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