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Abby Sunderland's attempt to sail around the world

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  • #16
    Re: Female teen missing on round-the-world sail

    First and foremost, I'm glad she was found safe and sound. I truly am. But I am also curious about the cost of her rescue. Is she or her family going to pay for it? The article I read describes a "massive" search and rescue mission with ships being diverted to look for her and one to actually go pick her up.

    Perhaps I am just cranky tonight but I'm tired of Americans voluntarily and foolishly endangering themselves and then expecting someone (usually at taxpayer expense) to go rescue them. In this moment of crankiness, I think if someone voluntarily, deliberately and foolishly chooses to do something high risk, and especially if they know the risks, then they should take responsibility for their actions and should darned well be on their own to figure out their own rescue when it goes bad. I don't mean what is now a "normal" risk like sailing on a commercial cruise boat (which does have a risk of sinking or other accidents but does have safety precautions and staff and are generally planned for safe routes), or flying on a commercial airplane or driving a car in a routine manner. I mean like sending a 16 year old out alone in winter seas to sail around the world. Or like Laura Ling and Euna Lee knowingly illegally crossing over into North Korea, getting caught and begging our government to go save them. Or the American hikers who insisted on hiking along the border of Iraq and Iran despite repeated warnings not to do it because it is dangerous and easy to accidentally cross the border into Iran. Now that they have crossed into Iran and been captured, they're begging the government and anyone else to rescue them. and especially since I believe none of these people were doing what they were doing for the betterment of mankind (eg: to cure cancer, end a war, etc.) but just for their own satisfaction and/or a means to gain fame and perhaps prestige. Ling and Lee may argue now that they were doing it to help the poor citizens of North Korea and they probably were also doing that, but I believe they also wanted the boost in their careers that would result from such an "exclusive".

    I'm not saying that competent people shouldn't be free to do what they want (within the limits of the law, of course) but that if they choose to do so, they shouldn't expect the public to pay the price for their rescue. In Ling's and Lee's case, it wasn't just a monetary cost. North Korea now thinks the US "owes" them for letting Ling and Lee go.

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    • #17
      Re: Female teen missing on round-the-world sail

      I am going to bask in the good news that the girl is [nearly] safe.
      Now run along and play, but don’t get into trouble.

      Comment


      • #18
        Re: Female teen missing on round-the-world sail

        Originally posted by Adri View Post
        I am also curious about the cost of her rescue. Is she or her family going to pay for it? The article I read describes a "massive" search and rescue mission with ships being diverted to look for her and one to actually go pick her up.
        It's too soon to know if the family will pay. As for ships being diverted, that's been common practice for centuries. Good mariners always voluntarily help rescue other mariners in distress; it's The Law Of The Sea.

        Perhaps I am just cranky tonight but I'm tired of Americans voluntarily and foolishly endangering themselves and then expecting someone (usually at taxpayer expense) to go rescue them.
        It's certainly not fair to limit foolishness to Americans. I'm pretty sure that's not what you meant.
        That being said, I agree with the rest of that quite strongly. I've written before that in my own learning curve I started going out in slightly bad weather, and had filed a float plan with friends and my local Harbor Patrol -- they knew when I left, where I was going, when I expected to return, and a communication schedule. The next time I'd do the same in worse weather, then worse and worse. My goal was to learn to handle my boat and myself so that if I got caught by surprise I knew what to expect and what to do. It worked.
        (Note: the biggest problem in rough weather is the "white noise" of the wind blowing through the rigging, creating a loud and high-pitched shrieking. White noise is well known to affect mental acuity. The first time I realized that the noise was bothering me I placed cigarette filters (emergency earplugs) in my ears, killed off most of the noise, and I instantly felt much calmer and was able to think clearly. I later found out that more highly experienced sailors use that earplug trick too.)
        As for the rescuers in general, what annoys me is that those of us who do offshore search and rescue work are usually risking our own lives to save someone else who got in trouble due to their own foolishness. Emergencies at sea rarely happen in good weather.
        I'm annoyed at people who intentionally leave port knowing that nasty weather already existed or was coming. Abby's case was somewhat different, due to her location so far offshore. But with all the electronics she had, she should've known that bad weather was coming and altered course to avoid the worst of it. Too soon to know why she didn't.

        I'm not saying that competent people shouldn't be free to do what they want (within the limits of the law, of course) but that if they choose to do so, they shouldn't expect the public to pay the price for their rescue.
        More and more often, rescues are indeed being billed. Hooray for that!

        No new updates on Abby's blog yet. Stay tuned.
        .
        .

        That's my story, and I'm sticking to it.

        Comment


        • #19
          Re: Female teen missing on round-the-world sail

          LikaNui: heh, no I didn't mean that only Americans are foolish in this type of thing. But I didn't feel like complaining about what other countries go through when people from those countries act foolishly *g* As an American, I was only complaining about the burden then placed on other Americans to rescue these people. Although you're right ~ it's not just the cost of rescue but that often other people are put in danger to help rescue someone who deliberately put themselves in danger. That's part of my point, though. It's mostly ok with me if a competent person puts themselves (and only themselves) in danger doing something they want to do but not if they also put others at risk. I greatly admire people who volunteer to help others, though.

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          • #20
            Re: Female teen missing on round-the-world sail

            You got it right, Adri. We're on the same page, or same wavelength, or something.
            .
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            That's my story, and I'm sticking to it.

            Comment


            • #21
              Re: Female teen missing on round-the-world sail

              Originally posted by Adri View Post
              I'm not saying that competent people shouldn't be free to do what they want (within the limits of the law, of course) but that if they choose to do so, they shouldn't expect the public to pay the price for their rescue.
              Originally posted by LikaNui View Post
              More and more often, rescues are indeed being billed. Hooray for that!
              Indeed. I've heard a lot about Abby Sunderland and Laura Dekker's ability to sail solo around the world, despite their young age. That's all fine and well. But how about the ability to pay for a search-and-rescue, should they need to be bailed out of a situation they cannot resolve on their own? It would seem to me that this is part of one being able to shoulder the responsibility of an ambitious endeavor like this. And if the sailor and his/her own family can't pay for the cost, will they at least have sponsors who are willing to foot the bill?

              It will be interesting to see what Abby does in the future. Now that there's no "youngest circumnavigator" record for her to break, there's no time pressure imposed on her and her next attempt at sailing around the world (whether it be at 17, 27 or whenever) can take place at a more optimal time. Of course, there won't be anywhere near the same level of hype and public interest the next time around. That shouldn't be a problem for the Sunderlands.... unless fame and vanity was all that they were seeking.
              This post may contain an opinion that may conflict with your opinion. Do not take it personal. Polite discussion of difference of opinion is welcome.

              Comment


              • #22
                Re: Female teen missing on round-the-world sail

                http://www.npr.org/templates/story/s...04&ft=1&f=1001

                It sounds like the Sunderlands will not be held responsible for the costs of the rescue. As LikaNui said, the Australians who seem to be footing the bill for the rescue said it's their obligation to rescue her and that's just the system. But if the Sunderlands had any honor, they'd at least offer to pay what they could (if they can't pay all).

                Comment


                • #23
                  Re: Female teen missing on round-the-world sail

                  Read what Latitude 38 publisher Richard Spindler wrote today at this link, echoing what I and others have said here and what most of the boating professionals and media are saying.
                  Richard has several decades of experience cruising the world, albeit not singlehanded, and he's never been afraid to speak out harshly when it's called for. And he does that in that link.
                  .
                  .

                  That's my story, and I'm sticking to it.

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Re: Female teen missing on round-the-world sail

                    Thanks for the article!

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Re: Female teen missing on round-the-world sail

                      Originally posted by Adri View Post
                      http://www.npr.org/templates/story/s...04&ft=1&f=1001

                      It sounds like the Sunderlands will not be held responsible for the costs of the rescue. As LikaNui said, the Australians who seem to be footing the bill for the rescue said it's their obligation to rescue her and that's just the system. But if the Sunderlands had any honor, they'd at least offer to pay what they could (if they can't pay all).
                      So the Australian govt. is going to pay the expenses incurred by the French fishing vessel, for going out of their way to rescue Abby? Will that include the additional cost of towing the Wild Eyes back to port? If not, then Abby's family and/or her sponsors will have to pay for it, as the LA Times opines,

                      Also to be decided is whether her boat will be sunk at its position or towed to dry land, Casher said. The boat's carbon fiber mast was heavily damaged and will cost an estimated $90,000 to replace, he said.

                      Under maritime law, rescue boats have a right to recoup the cost of a rescue up to and including possession of the boat, he said.

                      "It will cost more than the boat is worth to tow it to Reunion Island," he said. "And I don't even know if they’d want a sailing boat."
                      This post may contain an opinion that may conflict with your opinion. Do not take it personal. Polite discussion of difference of opinion is welcome.

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Re: Female teen missing on round-the-world sail

                        First off, I'm sooo glad she's okay.

                        Just 2 cents worth of mine...
                        This is a family of High Achievers who have chosen to encourage their children to Dream...and who have allowed them to make well-reasoned and (by all appearances) well-prepared for and well-supported efforts to see those dreams through.
                        They have my respect and admiration.

                        That said... responsibility comes with life.
                        We can either live by living or pass the time in fear. IMO
                        Life is either an adventure... or you're not doing it right!!!

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Re: Female teen missing on round-the-world sail

                          Originally posted by Menehune Man View Post
                          This is a family of High Achievers who have chosen to encourage their children to Dream...and who have allowed them to make well-reasoned and (by all appearances) well-prepared for and well-supported efforts to see those dreams through.
                          I agree with the first half of that, about encouraging children to dream. (As long as they're also taught about responsibility and common sense.)
                          But I have to disagree with the second half.
                          "Well reasoned" people do not send themselves, much less their children, into the Southern Ocean in the height of the worst season for wicked storms. Route planning was grossly in error on this one.
                          As for "well prepared", well, smart folks don't take off on a 25,000 mile voyage around the world with a mere three months of preparation nor on a boat that was already delaminating just three months earlier.
                          As for "well supported," perhaps she was well supported emotionally but not financially -- her sponsor was a small company named Wartabater that sells an electronic wart remover.
                          .
                          .

                          That's my story, and I'm sticking to it.

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Re: Female teen missing on round-the-world sail

                            Originally posted by LikaNui View Post
                            1)I agree with the first half of that, about encouraging children to dream. (As long as they're also taught about responsibility and common sense.)
                            But I have to disagree with the second half.
                            2)"Well reasoned" people do not send themselves, much less their children, into the Southern Ocean in the height of the worst season for wicked storms. Route planning was grossly in error on this one.
                            3)As for "well prepared", well, smart folks don't take off on a 25,000 mile voyage around the world with a mere three months of preparation nor on a boat that was already delaminating just three months earlier.
                            4)As for "well supported," perhaps she was well supported emotionally but not financially -- her sponsor was a small company named Wartabater that sells an electronic wart remover.
                            1) And I agree with your add-ons.
                            2) Sure they do, if it's the time to go! Anytime of year, on any ocean, can have a rogue wave or equipment failure(though prepared). And if we wait till everything is perfect for anything we do... then we'll do nothing.
                            3) Did they repair the delamination? If so, and provisioned, then the boat's ready.
                            4) She had the food, medical, clothing, electronics, etc. supplies needed. I believe.

                            Life is either an adventure... or you're not doing it right!!!

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Re: Female teen missing on round-the-world sail

                              Originally posted by Menehune Man View Post
                              1) Sure they do, if it's the time to go! Anytime of year, on any ocean, can have a rogue wave or equipment failure(though prepared). And if we wait till everything is perfect for anything we do... then we'll do nothing.
                              3) Did they repair the
                              While it's true that any time of the year and any ocean can have a rogue wave or rogue storm, I don't believe that's true it was reasonable or responsible to sail in this ocean during the winter when even the most skilled and most experienced sailors believe it's foolhardy to do so. There's a difference between being so scared of taking any risk that we do nothing and being so reckless and foolish that we ignore all reason and place others at risk for our own self-aggrandizing actions. Again, if she had decided to sail when and where she did and actually got herself out of trouble or made her own provisions for getting herself out of trouble when trouble occurred then that would be ok by me (that is, if she had a team of people ready to come in and rescue her, paid for by her or her family, if the likely actually did occur). But it really appears that she had no plan for the trouble that was most likely to occur other than to call for others who had no part of her scheme to come rescue her.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Re: Female teen missing on round-the-world sail

                                Ditto to everything that LN and Adri said.

                                To anyone who is deluded into thinking that Laurence and Marianne Sunderland aren't publicity-hungry stage parents, consider that they are trying to market their family's own reality show, Adventures in Sunderland.

                                To anyone who thinks that the timing of Abby Sunderland's decision to embark on a journey into the Southern Indian Ocean during the winter storm season was well-reasoned, note how Abby's trip is described by the production company making this reality show.

                                Meanwhile his 16 year-old sister, Abby Sunderland, just departed on her quest to complete a non-stop unassisted solo-circumnavigation of the world, trying to reclaim the "youngest" world record for the Sunderland family, but she must do so in a timely manner as 16 year-old Austrailian Jessica Watson has just passed the half-way mark of her attempt at the same world record.
                                There's the truth, folks. The circumstances under which Abby undertook her unsuccessful attempt at circumnavigation wasn't motivated by a simple passion for sailing. It wasn't motivated by a desire for self-fulfillment. (Either of these motivations would have been satisfied with a more carefully-planned and better-timed voyage.) The reason why Abby shoved-off when she did was simply to set an age-based record and to reclaim a world record for her family. And this isn't cynical ole' me speculating this. This is what the Sunderland family themselves are admitting.

                                So if anyone here wants to heap praise on the Sunderlands, then you go on ahead. AFAIAC, Laurence and Marianne Sunderland are no better than the parents of the Balloon Boy. The kind of people who would risk the safety of their children (and those folks who have to go out and attempt to rescue them) if it means getting themselves on television.

                                Sick, sick, SICK!!!
                                This post may contain an opinion that may conflict with your opinion. Do not take it personal. Polite discussion of difference of opinion is welcome.

                                Comment

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