Public schools

[escondido100]

Re: Public schools

I liked this letter to the editor that i read in the hilo paper.

"Did you know that since 1978, enrollment in public schools has not changed? Did you know that in 1978, Hawaii ranked 47th out of 50th, and likewise 47th out of 50th in 2008, in student performance?

Did you also know that the DOE budget was approximately $267 million ($895 million, accounting for inflation) and in 2008 it was approximately $2.5 billion? Did you also know that non-teaching DOE employees went from approximately 4,000 to 10,000 in that same time?

Look on the DOE job lists and you will see that there are positions for store clerks, program analysts, cabinet makers, inventory clerks and more.


There are 412 non-teaching job titles at the DOE. So far, all those in those non-teaching jobs have not received pay cuts or furloughs. Once again, the teachers and students are taking the hit while DOE administration stays bloated.

I'm wondering why someone did not think to retire older workers early and cut their jobs from the budgets? That would have been one way of dealing with the budget shortfall. Now, Hawaii students will not get their 180 days of instruction, and with their shortened days (mainland kids have longer school days), they will fall further behind, while 11,000 teacher families will be struggling to make ends meet. Way to go Hawaii!"

[escondido100]

Re: Public schools

it apears to me not many folks that post here seem to care about the fate of hawaii public schools because no one is talking much about it here.
however you can follow a live tweet feed of the current lawsuit via the advertiser website.
it is giving a minute by minute accounting of what is being said in defense of our children and hawaii's future as a credible place to get a good education.
this could be the case that opens everyones eyes to what the DOE is really doing with all our tax dollars.

[escondido100]

Re: Public schools

Judge ezra denies the two motions for an injunction. he says it would be too hard to recal teachers at this late date.
he reschedules a hearing for nov5.
it is dissapointing but maybe there will be some success on nov 5th.
i really feel that this is a pivotal moment for our state.
much has been sais about our collective failure to effeciently utilize the millions of dollars spent on education here.
we need to find a solution where real progress is made.
eliminating 17 days cannot be part of a plan for progress.
our state, our ohana and our children will certainly be left behind.
Acreddited high schools must have 175 instructional days. this isnt a law but how can we compete if we cant keep kids in school this minimum amount?

[Nords]

Re: Public schools

it apears to me not many folks that post here seem to care about the fate of hawaii public schools because no one is talking much about it here.

Is this comment supposed to encourage more people to discuss the issue?

much has been sais about our collective failure to effeciently utilize the millions of dollars spent on education here.
we need to find a solution where real progress is made.
eliminating 17 days cannot be part of a plan for progress.
our state, our ohana and our children will certainly be left behind.
Acreddited high schools must have 175 instructional days. this isnt a law but how can we compete if we cant keep kids in school this minimum amount?

I don't think anyone would complain about efficient use of the DOE's money.

But I'm not sure that academic performance is directly correlated to the number of days that the kids are in a classroom. Comparisons among schools, both here and on the Mainland, frequently overlook issues like non-English-speaking students, poverty/homelessness, and other community problems.

I think that most of the time (with some exceptions) a kid's school performance is improved more by the family's involvement than by the number of hours they spend at the school. Like any big bureaucratic organization, a substantial minority of our kid's "school" day is wasted by classroom admin and I think she gets more work done through independent projects. (Guess what most of her teachers are planning to hand out for furlough Fridays.) I bet even more of the teacher's school day is wasted by classroom admin. This is one of the reasons that homeschooling families can get so much more done in so much less time-- a lower student:teacher ratio and minimal admin.

I'm disappointed that the state couldn't use one of many available fiscal methods to pay teachers what they're worth.

I'm even less impressed by lawsuits that are filed too late for timely effect. But at least the process has been started.

[cyleet99]

Re: Public schools

It's the first furlough day. I spent about two hours yesterday on the 'net researching 5th grade standards and printing lesson plans for DS. (BTW the National Archives has some really COOL sites.) I'm tackling Language Arts (mostly to see what he already knows) and some history. For his birthday he received a science lab kit, so we will cover basic lab protocol (the booklet in the kit is great) and do a few experiments. He has been reading The Giver by Lois Lowry and has some online testing to complete for that, and I want to hear how he views some of what he has read.

His SAP teacher sent home three math sheets.
No homework from his main teacher.

Oh, and the new large LEGO project he is making this morning is quite creative. The two ninja swords he found in the box are the windshield wipers. I figure the LEGOs are providing lessons in math, art and perseverance.

[Menehune Man]

Re: Public schools

It ain't no furlough friday for me!
I'm working 16 hours today... from 8am till midnight. They(Bishop Museum security) needed extra help during the day for the crowds.
And it's crowded for sure! I'm in control cooling down right now.

At least I'll have 'Satisfied Saturday' off. HaHa!

[turtlegirl]

Re: Public schools

Our kid is applying to NROTC and colleges now, and no one cares which particular school she attends.

*snort*giggle*
No disrespect intended, but the NROTC basically only cares if the enlistee/victim has a pulse and decent eyesight! Oh, and coordinated use of all ones limbs is appreciated as well.

apologies for the thread drift

[TuNnL]

Re: Public schools

it apears to me not many folks that post here seem to care about the fate of hawaii public schools because no one is talking much about it here.

I don’t think that’s necessarily true. People tend to debate things that can still be changed on HT. Barring a special session of the legislature to appropriate money from the Hurricane Relief Fund, I think the furloughs are a done deal. Last time I checked, the ledge did not have the votes to call such a session.

People just need to live with these furloughs. Personally, I think it’s a great idea. It forces parents to take more responsibility for the keiki. Are there many out there who are going beyond the call to shape the lives of their child? Sure! Are there just as many parents who use public school as a babysitter? Absolutely. I think these parents should thank their lucky stars that others in the community who send their kids to Punahou or ‘Iolani still pay the same amount of taxes to subsidize public school. A fair argument can be made that they should receive a “voucher” from the government for being one less mind to mold, mouth to feed and butt to wipe by the state employees we call “teachers, cafeteria workers, and custodians.”

[mel]

Re: Public schools

Photos from the Furlough Friday rally at the State Capitol:

Pictures | Slide Show

[acousticlady]

Re: Public schools

Instead of a discussion on pubic schools in the state, I'd like to see a discussion of the state of education in the public schools. As long as I've been here (on HT), very few will even touch on the subject.

Let's talk about that, despite the spin on any statistics you may draw on, the bold truth is that Hawaii's public schools are graduating students with an education level slightly below that of Nigeria.

Let's talk about the fact that students graduating from UH are generally getting a degree without the necessary skills needed to make it in this world. Keep in mind that I gave birth to one of those.......

On the up side, let's talk about the fact that Hawaii's community college system is one of the best in the country and is being held up as a model for the rest of the country. What is it that they are doing right?

We all need to try and fix the problems. And throwing money at it, or taking money away isn't going to solve the very deep rooted problems. These problems are most prevalent in the elementary and high schools and exist in public schools all over the country - not just here. There are those of us who are quietly working on changing the system. It is individuals in business, government and private education who are devoting their time and efforts to make serious change in the educational policies inherent in public education.

And yes, I am one of those people. I could go into more details, but I am really trying to get a discussion started. it is my hope that more than a few of you are reading this and get a little miffed. How dare I say that your education is of a lower standard than anyone else's?

The problem is nationwide. We, as Americans, are becoming the laughing stock of the rest of the world. Here is an opportunity for Hawaii to stand up and say - we have a better idea. Let's all work for a better future and that future begins at birth. And let's create a system the has the rest of the country stand up and say - what is Hawaii doing right and how can we do the same?

[escondido100]

Re: Public schools

mission accomplished!!!! we are talking about this again. the silence on this topic was deafening.
I am glad to hear some opinions.

[Nords]

Re: Public schools

Let's talk about that, despite the spin on any statistics you may draw on, the bold truth is that Hawaii's public schools are graduating students with an education level slightly below that of Nigeria.
it is my hope that more than a few of you are reading this and get a little miffed. How dare I say that your education is of a lower standard than anyone else's?
The problem is nationwide. We, as Americans, are becoming the laughing stock of the rest of the world. Here is an opportunity for Hawaii to stand up and say - we have a better idea. Let's all work for a better future and that future begins at birth. And let's create a system the has the rest of the country stand up and say - what is Hawaii doing right and how can we do the same?

So you want to start a discussion by miffing the audience? Is that a Don Rickles approach?

Here's a thought. If America's / Hawaii's educational systems suck as much as is widely publicized, then ideally all the non-U.S. students (and some really bright American students) would go to fine Nigerian educational institutions. Yet it seems to me that foreign students are clamoring to get into U.S. undergraduate & postgraduate schools, and businesses are swamped with the demand for H-1B visas. If the U.S. education system is so bad, then why are all the non-U.S. citizens trying to get in?

*snort*giggle*
No disrespect intended, but the NROTC basically only cares if the enlistee/victim has a pulse and decent eyesight! Oh, and coordinated use of all ones limbs is appreciated as well.

Thanks, TG, you're preaching to the choir-- I'm a USNA grad myself. But NROTC does help make fine institutions like Rice, Notre Dame, and UH more affordable... or at least a "lower" price than I paid.

NROTC wants:

SAT: 530 Critical Reading; 520 math
If applicant is in the top 10% of his/her high school graduating class, the SAT/ACT test scores can be below the above stated minimum.

Not sure what UH wants.

[pzarquon]

Re: Public schools

Larry Geller has been doing a good job picking apart the impact these furloughs may have on education.

Among the more troubling suggestions is that by cutting instructional days, our high school students' diplomas may not be worth the paper their printing on, as they won't have the minimum number of instructional hours to get into WASC colleges.

His latest post notes that Mililani Middle School, where my daughter goes, could have as few as 144 instructional days, depending on the track. That’s astonishing, considering:

The minimum school year for Hawaii students was 179 days in 2006, down from 183 days in 2004 and 184 days in 2000, according to the digest, compiled by the National Center for Education Statistics. Kansas’ public schools had the most instructional days in 2006 — 186 — and North Dakota had the fewest, 173. (Source)

Our kids will get less schooling than kids in North Dakota? The state that previously and consistently occupied the bottom spot on most major educational indexes?

Now as much as I want to support "education in Hawaii," I'm cautious to advocate on behalf of kids, and not as teachers. I mean, maybe I'm misunderstanding this, but wasn’t it the HSTA, and not “the administration,” that put the furlough days on instructional days, rather than other days that were just as eligible for savings and didn’t affect students? Says the lawsuit Larry examines:

Furloughs were deliberately and intentionally not scheduled for holidays or other paid non-work days or for professional development days during which students do not attend class.

Doesn't this mean our teachers, finally facing the music and accepting the furloughs they refused to accept months ago until layoffs loomed, specifically decided that they'd rather keep their paid vacation days and "professional development days" and slash classroom time instead?

[escondido100]

Re: Public schools

the obama administration weighs in here:http://online.wsj.com/article/SB125635093976805443.html
This is making national news folks, and not in a good way.
When presented with an opportunity to have additional funds for education our legislatures decided to use it somewhere else.
I think that this problem was a long time in the making. I believe our legislatures over the years has allowed the unions to basically take over our education system....the state cannot do anything without passing muster of the unions first and while i think the unions have an important job to do they seem to be operating to the detriment of the goal of the education system.
I hope that people will wake up to this. it wouldnt be so bad if we had a good school system with average or better scores and such but when we are consisitently at the bottom on performance and the top as to expense it really defies logic.
lets hope sound minds prevail here. If not lets get some legislators that can swing this back into the favor of the students.
Both parties are to blame here overthe decades of laws and policy being passed with unintended consequences.
Its not really about fixing blame, it about fixing the problem.

[craigwatanabe]

Re: Public schools

Photos from the Furlough Friday rally at the State Capitol:

Pictures | Slide Show

That's a great picture...add some textbooks and have a service day for teachers! Heck volunteerism adds character.