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  • #31
    Re: State government furloughs

    Originally posted by tutusue View Post
    It's the job that's signatory to the union and it must be filled by a union member or by someone who is Taft-Hartley'd and will become a member. As I understand it, should a union member drop out of the union, s/he would lose that union job. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong.
    That depends upon the negotiated agreement. I worked 34 years at a federal job that allowed the workers to join or not join the union. I chose not to join because the union fought for the wrong things and many of the stewards were very insulting to management. What you describe is called a closed shop


    A closed shop is a business or industrial factory in which union membership (often of a specific union and no other) is a precondition to employment. It is opposed to the open shop, which does not consider union membership in hiring decisions and does not give union members preference in hiring. It is different from the union shop, which does not require employees to be union members as a condition of employment, but does require that they join the union or pay the equivalent of union dues within a set period of time following their hire.
    "Reason is not automatic. Those who deny it cannot be conquered by it. Do not count on them. Leave them alone."
    Ayn Rand

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    • #32
      Re: State government furloughs

      Originally posted by tutusue View Post
      It's the job that's signatory to the union and it must be filled by a union member or by someone who is Taft-Hartley'd and will become a member. As I understand it, should a union member drop out of the union, s/he would lose that union job. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong.
      Originally posted by 68-eldo View Post
      That depends upon the negotiated agreement. I worked 34 years at a federal job that allowed the workers to join or not join the union. I chose not to join because the union fought for the wrong things and many of the stewards were very insulting to management. What you describe is called a closed shop
      A closed shop is a business or industrial factory in which union membership (often of a specific union and no other) is a precondition to employment. It is opposed to the open shop, which does not consider union membership in hiring decisions and does not give union members preference in hiring. It is different from the union shop, which does not require employees to be union members as a condition of employment, but does require that they join the union or pay the equivalent of union dues within a set period of time following their hire.
      I thought I was starting to understand closed shop but am confused by the last sentence above; the requirement to join. How does that differ from the Taft-Hartley situation above? I'll give an example...

      Some of my casting jobs are signatory to the Screen Actors Guild (SAG). I must give preference to union members for the audition itself but can also audition non-union members if there are vacant time slots. The producer has the right to hire the best actor for the job. If that happens to be a non-union actor then I must Taft-Hartley that person so that s/he is legal to work under the terms of the union contract. While that non-union actor is protected by the contract during that particular job, s/he doesn't have to join after working that one job but will eventually end up in a must join situation if s/he scores future union work. Is that still a closed shop?

      So, 68-eldo, may I assume that during the time of your federal job, you personally had no union protection should you have needed it? I'm only marginally understanding of entertainment related unions so your experience is new to me. Very interesting.

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      • #33
        Re: State government furloughs

        When you are hired into state service, you are given the option to join the union. It is not a requirement, and many are not members. However, union dues are mandatory, and your paycheck is deducted whether or not you are a member. The reason is because the union bargains for your rights, pay, etc. and will represent you if you have a grievance with your employer.

        If you are a non-member you may not furlough on your own. The state/employer will consider you AWOL.

        From the beginning, the governor has wanted to downsize, and close programs that can be privatized. Perhaps the film office is one that will continue to operate, but with a private vendor.

        Comment


        • #34
          Re: State government furloughs

          Originally posted by tutusue View Post
          So, 68-eldo, may I assume that during the time of your federal job, you personally had no union protection should you have needed it? I'm only marginally understanding of entertainment related unions so your experience is new to me. Very interesting.
          Officially I had the same protection as the union members. Management is required to treat all employees equally. But the reality was that if I had a grievance the union was required to represent me but would not put their best effort into defending me. When I started there were two grievance procedures. One for union members the other for non union members. But the non union procedure was eliminated. But I could always talk to anybody in management on an unofficial bases to resolve any issues.

          What I don’t understand is how the governor can lay off people without union input. When we had a reduction in force (RIF) the union was heavily involved in the process to be sure individuals were not targeted because someone did not like them. A RIF is a very complicated process. If an office was to be cut in size the least senior employees would be on the RIF list. If some of those had been promoted to their position they had retreat rights to the place they came from which might bump someone in that area. They in turn could bump someone else. I’ve heard the RIF process was run many times before they finally got everything settled out as to who would go out the door and who would be returned to an old job. And there was always the possibility those slated to go out the door would be offered a position in an area they never worked before.
          "Reason is not automatic. Those who deny it cannot be conquered by it. Do not count on them. Leave them alone."
          Ayn Rand

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          • #35
            Re: State government furloughs

            Originally posted by tutusue View Post
            Some of my casting jobs are signatory to the Screen Actors Guild (SAG). I must give preference to union members for the audition itself but can also audition non-union members if there are vacant time slots. The producer has the right to hire the best actor for the job. If that happens to be a non-union actor then I must Taft-Hartley that person so that s/he is legal to work under the terms of the union contract. While that non-union actor is protected by the contract during that particular job, s/he doesn't have to join after working that one job but will eventually end up in a must join situation if s/he scores future union work. Is that still a closed shop?
            No I would call that a union shop. If I read it right the difference is a closed shop can not even take applications from anyone not in the union. I would guess the shop would contact the union to have them send over applicants. What you describe is more like a union shop where you can take applications from anybody, but they must become union members if they remain employed for a certain amount of time.

            Have you looked at this?
            "Reason is not automatic. Those who deny it cannot be conquered by it. Do not count on them. Leave them alone."
            Ayn Rand

            Comment


            • #36
              Re: State government furloughs

              Originally posted by 68-eldo View Post
              What I don’t understand is how the governor can lay off people without union input.
              This is the problem. She is supposed to get union input before laying off and furloughing, but instead, she's issuing layoff notices directly to employees and announcing furloughs through the media.

              There I go again... deleted my comments. I can't say how I really feel or what I know. Not safe.
              Last edited by Sharilyn; August 8, 2009, 05:15 AM.

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              • #37
                Re: State government furloughs

                Originally posted by 68-eldo View Post
                [...]
                Have you looked at this?
                Thanx...I'll peruse it once my current (non-union!) casting project is pau!!!

                Comment


                • #38
                  Re: State government furloughs

                  With TS Felicia in the news and providing everyone with a fresh reminder of the damage and devastation that Mother Nature can bring, I wonder if that will put a damper on the idea of using the $185 million in the Hurrican Relief Fund to plug the deficit in the state's budget?
                  This post may contain an opinion that may conflict with your opinion. Do not take it personal. Polite discussion of difference of opinion is welcome.

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                  • #39
                    Re: State government furloughs

                    The governor's layoff list was released on Friday by folks from the Legislature. I saw copies at KITV and the Advertiser.

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Re: State government furloughs

                      Originally posted by Glen Miyashiro View Post
                      The governor's layoff list was released on Friday by folks from the Legislature.
                      Are you sure those lists are real, Glen?

                      Judging by some comments re: the state's cost containment measures for their drug plan, economic reality still hasn't sunk in for those with thick-skulls.

                      http://www.honoluluadvertiser.com/ar...g+medications+

                      Another state employee, Janice Higa, was informed she should switch from a number of brand-name drugs to generics. If she doesn't, she'll face an out-of-pocket copay of $520 a month.

                      "I've been very upset with what the state has put in force," Higa said.


                      Yeah! Hell with the colleagues in my dept. who are getting laid off. Hell with the abused kids who will lose the Healthy Start social worker who used to help them. Waaah!!!! I demand my LIPITOR! None of this no-name, generic stuff for me,.... even though I would miserably fail in a blind test comparison between the drugs.

                      Almost as out-of-touch with reality was a letter that the HGEA's Randy Perreira was sending out to the local banks.

                      http://www.honoluluadvertiser.com/ar...WS01/908160425

                      Hawai'i's largest state employee union is alerting major banks that its members may soon be asking for leniency with financial obligations, in a sign of the ailing economy in the state.

                      In a recent letter to First Hawaiian Bank, Bank of Hawaii, American Savings Bank and Central Pacific Bank, the head of the Hawai'i Government Employees Association asked that those financial institutions be aware that union members are facing financial hardships.


                      The response from the banks? Polite.... but carefully worded in a way that indicates that govt. workers would get no special treatment by virtue of their HGEA membership. Alas, if they need from their financial institutions, they're going to be treated like everybody else.

                      Those kind of situations are occurring to all kinds of customers, said Donald Horner, chairman and chief executive officer of First Hawaiian Bank. His institution is using several methods to help those with loan problems, including payment deferrals and restructuring, he said.

                      "Those are a few of the ways we could modify the loans if we feel it is warranted," Horner said. "But the first step is for the customer to proactively contact their banker."

                      Bank of Hawaii spokesman Stafford Kiguchi said his institution is sympathetic about the uncertainties facing state workers.

                      "As with other customers who may be facing similar hardships, we would want to work with them to help minimize adverse impacts that may result from their situation," he said.
                      This post may contain an opinion that may conflict with your opinion. Do not take it personal. Polite discussion of difference of opinion is welcome.

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Re: State government furloughs

                        Originally posted by Frankie's Market View Post

                        Another state employee, Janice Higa, was informed she should switch from a number of brand-name drugs to generics. If she doesn't, she'll face an out-of-pocket copay of $520 a month.

                        "I've been very upset with what the state has put in force," Higa said.


                        Yeah! Hell with the colleagues in my dept. who are getting laid off. Hell with the abused kids who will lose the Healthy Start social worker who used to help them. Waaah!!!! I demand my LIPITOR! None of this no-name, generic stuff for me,.... even though I would miserably fail in a blind test comparison between the drugs.

                        Almost as out-of-touch with reality was a letter that the HGEA's Randy Perreira was sending out to the local banks.
                        Using generic drugs to qualify for the lower co-pay has been a staple of folks' insurance in the private sector a LONG time ago. Even Medicare does the same with its client base. I don't have any ill will to each individual state employee but I am left wondering what goes through the mind of the unions thinking somehow they warrant extra, special treatment?

                        Alerting the bank about potential hardship? Has any of these unions considered rolling back the union dues in light of the current hardships?

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Re: State government furloughs

                          Don't try to do any state business on Fridays, because many offices will be closed twice a month. And the remaining two Fridays will no doubt be swamped with people who can only come in on that day of the week. It will be interesting to see how the legislature is going to handle the situation. If anything at all makes the state come up with a plan to avoid the furloughs, it will be that the legislature is inconvenienced. We already know that the students of Hawaii are not a priority, but maybe the legislature will "care about themselves"....

                          http://www.starbulletin.com/news/breaking/65053137.html

                          "Twenty-two state buildings, including the state Capitol and the Health Department, will be shut down two Fridays a month because of the furloughs just approved by the largest state workers union, it was announced today.
                          In a memo distributed this morning, State Comptroller Russ Saito said that starting Friday "the department will be observing furlough days on two Fridays each month for the remainder of the fiscal year 2010," which runs through June 30.
                          The buildings will be closed, the air conditioning shut off, and DAGS will not service the buildings on furlough days, he wrote.
                          Included in the downtown core, the state will shut the Capitol, the Health Department building (Kinau Hale), the state archives, the state office tower, No. 1 Capitol District, and Capitol Center. Also closed will be Aliiamoku Hale, the central services base yard, Kaneohe, Wahiawa and Waipahu Civic Centers and the Kalanimoku Building."
                          Now run along and play, but don’t get into trouble.

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Re: State government furloughs

                            Originally posted by Amati View Post
                            Don't try to do any state business on Fridays, because many offices will be closed twice a month. And the remaining two Fridays will no doubt be swamped with people who can only come in on that day of the week.

                            Actually, with the way state holidays are set up, many state offices will end up being closed three times a month (although not necessarily on Fridays). I think October is the only month that doesn't have a state holiday.

                            Although, how common is it for a person to only have Fridays free in the week, compared to any other day of the week? Or are you saying that it would be swamped regardless of what day of the week it was -- for example, if we had furlough Wednesdays instead of Furlough Fridays? (And I wonder if they chose to furlough on Fridays because of the alliteration? It certainly rolls off the tongue.)
                            Four Thousand Miles (blog) | MacRatLove (comic)
                            Better Holes and Garbage (rats) | Perfectly Inadequate (music)

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                            • #44
                              Re: State government furloughs

                              Originally posted by tutusue View Post
                              It's the job that's signatory to the union and it must be filled by a union member or by someone who is Taft-Hartley'd and will become a member. As I understand it, should a union member drop out of the union, s/he would lose that union job. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong.
                              You are correct
                              Life is what you make of it...so please read the instructions carefully.

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                              • #45
                                Re: State government furloughs

                                Originally posted by sophielynette View Post
                                Or are you saying that it would be swamped regardless of what day of the week it was -- for example, if we had furlough Wednesdays instead of Furlough Fridays?
                                Yes, that is it. Many people get one "weekday" off plus a weekend, so they only get one day a week to do business.
                                Now run along and play, but don’t get into trouble.

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