bill to ban pitbulls - BSL

[BlueNinja]

I'm shocked to not see any mention in here about this bill. The Honolulu Advertiser seemed to portray that even the drafter of the bill, Colleen Hanabusa, realizes the ridiculousness of the bill and the fact that it would never get passed. I'm curious what people's thoughts are on it.

Am I opening up a can of worms?

As a sidenote, I find it interesting that the bill would come up right after the Sports Illustrated article, stating how almost all of the Michael Vick's dogfighting pits were rescued/rescuable. And that the drafter is from the area of Hawaii that likely has the highest percentage per capita of pitbulls.

[SusieMisajon]

Re: bill to ban pitbulls - BSL

Banning Rottweilers would also be a good move.

[anapuni808]

Re: bill to ban pitbulls - BSL

I don't care how many people try to convince me that pit bulls are harmless and really very friendly dogs - everytime I see one, I am terrified. I don't care how carefully and lovingly they are raised - they still have inbred instincts that are going to come out. The dogs can't help themselves. and the owners need to take responsibility for the fact they have volatile dogs, who while, with their "family", might be nice - will try to eat me if I walk past their yard!

Think about Travis the chimp.....................

[Leo Lakio]

Re: bill to ban pitbulls - BSL

Am I opening up a can of worms?

Worms don't belong in cans. Always good to get discussions rolling. Welcome to HT!

[Mahi Waina]

Re: bill to ban pitbulls - BSL

When I lived on the Big Island, the locals I knew who owned pit bulls had well-disciplined dogs that were kept outdoors and trained for hunting pigs. My dogs have always been indoors and part of the family. A dog's behavior is a reflection of its owner's intent, skills and demeanor. Pass laws against bad owners, not against dogs.

[BlueNinja]

Re: bill to ban pitbulls - BSL

Pass laws against bad owners, not against dogs.

I agree, Mahi. I am kind of appalled at the prejudice of the bill. How about dangerous dog legislation, rather than a breed specific one?

[SusieMisajon]

Re: bill to ban pitbulls - BSL

When I lived on the Big Island, the locals I knew who owned pit bulls had well-disciplined dogs that were kept outdoors and trained for hunting pigs. My dogs have always been indoors and part of the family. A dog's behavior is a reflection of its owner's intent, skills and demeanor. Pass laws against bad owners, not against dogs.

When I lived on the Big Isle, the locals I knew used Pitbulls to protect their crops, and most of the dogs at the pound were Pitbulls or part Pitbull.

[cyleet99]

Re: bill to ban pitbulls - BSL

The dog bites I've seen and treated are from a variety of breeds; German Shepards, Pomeranians, poodles, old dogs, young dogs, Chihuahuas (them's some meanies, too!) Schnauzers, etc, etc. I've also seen some ferocious cat attacks. Oh, and roosters can put a hurting on you as well. The only thing I see about pit bulls is the degree of injury; if that dog attacks, there is usually more damage.

I would not support a bill that bans breeds; if people are concerned about animal attacks, pass a bill that mandates what animal control does.

just my two cents...

[cabanalane]

Re: bill to ban pitbulls - BSL

A dog's behavior is a reflection of its owner's intent, skills and demeanor. Pass laws against bad owners, not against dogs.

Very true.

Just this weekend, we were at a friends house who own two dogs. Same age, different breed. Both outside dogs.

One was half pitbull. Both dogs were friendly, nice, etc, etc.

BUT, the part pitbull had a natural ability to trip someone by pulling on the pants leg, toward the other way. Therefore, causing the person to fall down.

NO ONE taught the dog that. The dog just figure it out.

The other mix breed dog have no clue what the part pitbull was doing. He just stands there and watch.

So IMO, there is something "natural" about a pitbull's character, that I think can be dangerous.

In no way am I saying other dogs are not. And owners are responsible for the behavior. It's just easier for the dog to go bad IMO with a pitbull.

[Amati]

Re: bill to ban pitbulls - BSL

http://www.capitol.hawaii.gov/sessio...ills/SB79_.HTM

Here is the bill, SB 79. It has until March 6 to be heard.

[sophielynette]

Re: bill to ban pitbulls - BSL

"Pitbull" is not a breed. It is a type of dog used in dog fighting. The dogs most commonly associated with this type of activity are American Staffordshire Terriers, American Pit Bull Terriers, Staffordshire Bull Terriers, sometimes even bulldogs and boxers. Problem number one with banning pit bulls, then, is defining the meaning of the word pit bull.

Pit bulls-- dogs that are used in fighting pits-- were not bred to attack humans. They were bred to attack other dogs. Breeding a pit bull to attack humans would be counterintuitive, because the dog needs to respond to its owner, especially in instances where the fight has to be broken up. Saying that pit bulls were "bred to be vicious" is therefore a flawed logic, as pit bulls were bred to attack other dogs in a fighting ring. They were not bred to attack people. They were bred to be obedient to people.

Most of the dog breeds described as "pit bulls" are known to be intelligent. There's a difference between intelligence and viciousness. Many of the behaviours that are looked down on in pit bulls are even encouraged in smaller breeds, cuter breeds. We put up with aggressiveness in Auntie's pomeranian because it's small and cute, until Auntie's pomeranian suddenly gets sick of Junior pulling his tail and attacks him.

Ever read about a vicious "pit bull" attack in the newspaper? Notice how it's on the front page? And yet a week later the retraction that, no, the dog was actually a Laborador, only makes page 10. The media doesn't want facts, it wants sensation. And again we're going back to the idea that "pit bull" isn't actually a breed but just a name lumped onto any dog that looks or acts the wrong way.

If we condemn dogs for being born "the wrong breed" we might as well condemn humans for being born "the wrong race". Explain to me how that is any different. Because they're animals? Because they can't rise above? Because some dogs are "just born bad"?

I wrote a ten-page article on the reasons that Breed Specific Legislation is ineffective. Unfortunately it was on a computer that has since crashed. If I can manage to locate it somehow, I'd love to share it with anyone who is truly interested in educating themselves and not simply determined to prove why their opinion is the correct one.

[anapuni808]

Re: bill to ban pitbulls - BSL

I have never heard of a bulldog or boxer being called a "pit bull". and calling a pit bull by a variety of terrier names doesn't change the inherent personality and instincts of this dog. Yes, the owners are responsible for the kind of training the dog receives, yes - I agree that these dogs can be very nice & loving dogs. But, I'm still very uncomfortable around this particular type of dog and I don't trust them in the same way I would trust a lab or retriever. Animals have behaviour traits that are bred into them over many generations. A Jack Russell terrier was bred to be a "ratter" - they are very hyper dogs but I'm not afraid of them or nor would I hesitate to approach one. I'm a dog lover and would love to have one now. But there are certain breeds I would never consider - and all these "pit bull" breeds are on that list. but, so are all the little "yappers" like maltese terriers and yorkies - these dogs can also be vicious. but at least they won't rip your face off if they decide they don't like you.

[sophielynette]

Re: bill to ban pitbulls - BSL

I have never heard of a bulldog or boxer being called a "pit bull". and calling a pit bull by a variety of terrier names doesn't change the inherent personality and instincts of this dog.

Bulldogs and boxers are often lumped in to Breed Specific Legislation laws, along with various breeds of shepherds and mastiffs. And we're not "calling a pit bull by a variety of terrier names", these are the actual names of the breeds as recognized by the AKC. Not all pit bulls are American Staffordshire Terriers; but neither are all American Staffordshire Terriers "pit bulls", only the ones actually used for fighting. That is the distinction.

but, so are all the little "yappers" like maltese terriers and yorkies - these dogs can also be vicious. but at least they won't rip your face off if they decide they don't like you.

Tell that to the little girl who was attacked by a cocker spaniel and needed 30 stitches in her cheek.

Or the little boy who lost his lip to a Chihuahua.

There are a lot of incidents of labs and retrievers as well, to the point where these breeds are often included in the "banned breeds" listing of cities that enact Breed Specific Legislation.


The other thing to consider is that, if you ban "pit bulls", only the owners who actually follow the law are going to be punished. You're not going to be dealing with the dangerous pit bulls, because the people who organize dog fights are already breaking the law in the first place! And if you prevent them from using a certain breed, they're just going to find a new one to utilize. And ten, twenty, thirty years from now, maybe poodles will be the new "pit bull", because they'll have been bred for aggression.

[BlueNinja]

Re: bill to ban pitbulls - BSL

But, I'm still very uncomfortable around this particular type of dog and I don't trust them in the same way I would trust a lab or retriever.

It's funny you say that. One of the two stitch scars I have from dog bites are from a yellow lab and a cocker spaniel. I have never been bit by a pitbull and I used to volunteer regularly at a pitbull rescue.

[anapuni808]

Re: bill to ban pitbulls - BSL

I didn't include cocker spaniels in my posting - but that's also the only dog that has ever bitten me. A family pet, the dog was just mean. Doesn't mean that all are bad dogs. and I've not said that all pit bulls are bad (by whatever name you call them). What I have tried to convey is my own personal opinion.

I appreciate the comments from all of you. That doesn't change my feelings towards a particular type of dog.

We are all entitled to our particular opinions. I would hope that all of you could appreciate mine, as I do all of yours.